Gotham The Official Gotham News and discussion thread - Part 5

Not as much abandoned as put on hold for Bruce to deal with the grief of killing someone (even though that went a bit longer than it should have). He's getting back into the swing of things with these recent episodes. As for Barbara's plotpoint, I don't know. It's another bizarre decision from Gotham, so I'm not really that surprised.

Also apparently someone leaked the final script page of the season finale on reddit. Spoilers beware.
 
Not as much abandoned as put on hold for Bruce to deal with the grief of killing someone (even though that went a bit longer than it should have). He's getting back into the swing of things with these recent episodes. As for Barbara's plotpoint, I don't know. It's another bizarre decision from Gotham, so I'm not really that surprised.

Also apparently someone leaked the final script page of the season finale on reddit. Spoilers beware.

Just saw the page on reddit! All I can say is.... HOLY ****! Hoping this is renewed for S5, but if not, it could serve as a decent finale! That said, it does introduce a couple of characters I did not see coming!
 
Still got 8 days before Season 4 debuts for me. :dry:
 
Was that the Joker gas I just saw?
 
Awesome trailer! :hmr::hmr:

Pretty glad they didn't show any scenes with Cameron Monaghan's new character!
Agreed. I love Harvey's statement: "I don't know I thought it already was."
Was that the Joker gas I just saw?

Looks like it. Now I know Riddler would probably survive, but I wonder when it will became the lethal concoction we all know and fear.

I love the Joker like killing Joke references. I thought we would see more of Bruce masked counterparts.

I love the scene with the Legion of Horribles, and the Jerome saying he wants to paint the town with crazy.
 
He's definitely talking to [BLACKOUT]his twin[/BLACKOUT] when he's talking about the one bad day ideal.
 
He's definitely talking to [BLACKOUT]his twin[/BLACKOUT] when he's talking about the one bad day ideal.

Speaking of which, there was a potential leaked of the final script (IDK if it was a April fools joke or not) but SPOILERS!:

[BLACKOUT]
https://friendofmanyfoeoffew.imgur.com
-Lady Shiva, Mother and Orphan (potentially Black Bat/Cassandra Cain/Batgirl) and Man-Bat appears, Ra's Al Ghul returns in a physical form
-Jeremiah/Potential Joker and Bruce interacts in an interrogation scene paralleling the scene in the Dark Knight, after Jeremiah tortures Alfred and shoots Selina
- Jeremiah's bombs around the city are being monitored by Ra's as he uses Joker as a tool, killing a few characters in the process.
- The old commissioner dies in an explosion
- Someone saves Jim from being arrested
-The bridges are destroyed, the national guard is called in, parts of the city are completely overtaken by criminals. It's almost exactly like No Man's Land, although the why of everything is a bit different.
-Bruce just spots Gordon shining the spotlight from the roof of the GCPD after the whole city goes to ****, and decides to meet up with him because they both want to help people, closes on an iconic batman image (like the script says) and has a callback to one of the pilot's most memorable moments/Jim and Bruce's first meeting which is supported by this image:
pldegf12zrn01.jpg
.[/BLACKOUT]
 
You know, in hindsight, A Legion of Horribles would've been a good episode title for this, had Gotham not already used it in Season Two.
 
You know, in hindsight, A Legion of Horribles would've been a good episode title for this, had Gotham not already used it in Season Two.

Agreed. But what's done is done. I love how we're getting an actual

But looking back at one interview is done, while everyone always call Gordon on his hypocrisy and moral fallings (Despite him being one of the moral best of Gotham at this point compared to some other characters), I love how Ben acknowledges it and season 4 uses it to develops the character:

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/03/29/gotham-what-jim-gordon-says-about-us

As actor Ben McKenzie helps remind us, Jim Gordon isn't the most inspirational hero, but he may just be the most relatable.
While the colorful villains may be what many people associate with Gotham, the show’s heart is embodied by one man: Jim Gordon. A good cop trying—and failing—to keep his conscious clean in a city in which the good guys only win by being bad, it’s Jim Gordon that makes an often over-the-top show like Gotham relatable. It’s his story in which we find the message beneath the show’s madness. We might not be able to relate to a green-suited evil genius who holds the city hostage through riddles or a fear-obsessed child of a doctor who terrorizes people while wearing a burlap mask, but we can sure relate to a man trying to avoid losing hope as the world around him seems to be getting worse by the day. We know exactly what it feels like to discover that the road to success may mean compromising our ideals and beliefs.

“There’s always been a sadness to Gordon,” actor Ben McKenzie said recently. “You see it as commissioner when he’s barely holding it together and in desperate need of Batman to keep the city from falling apart. When he first comes in, he’s much more idealistic. What I like is to watch the world beat him down and knock him to shreds, and have to get up in the morning and pick himself up every day. That’s what I always liked about him, and that’s what [Executive Producer] Bruno Heller and I always bonded over—this everyman hero keeping the wolves at bay as best he can until ultimately they need a guy dressed as a bat to save them.”



Last week’s episode marked something of a turning point for Gordon, culminating in a brutal confrontation between the newly anointed captain of the GCPD and the woman who anointed him, the cold-and-calculating Sofia Falcone, that left Gordon injured and Falcone dead. As he recovered, Gordon’s often estranged friend and partner Harvey Bullock squelched Jim’s plans to reveal that he was indirectly responsible for Falcone’s rise and Professor Pyg’s earlier killing spree, insisting that the cops who worked under Jim needed their hero untarnished and that Gordon’s guilt was his to bear alone. It was a surprising statement and a direct inverse of Batman’s decision at the end of The Dark Knight, but it makes perfect sense. Gordon operates within the system. It’s only Batman, who doesn’t yet exist, who finally realizes that to be effective in Gotham requires working outside of it.

“Gordon’s a noirish detective,” McKenzie suggests. “He’s always making mistakes. He doesn’t have the full information, but he’s the smartest guy in the room, and when things culminate with the villain, he’s going to figure out how to get his way out of it. But each time he does it, he pays another price and gets beaten down.”

Tonight’s episode, “One of My Three Soups,” is a very Gordon-centric episode, and one of the strongest episodes of what’s arguably Gotham’s strongest season so far. Perhaps uncoincidentally, it was also directed by the man who knows the character better than anyone else: McKenzie. “One of My Three Soups” finds Gordon and Bullock attempting to stop a recently escaped Mad Hatter from killing thousands of people, while also offering some of the deepest insight yet into the background of Jerome Velaska, the popular recurring villain who may or may not be the Joker. (And as if Jerome and Mad Hatter weren’t exciting enough, the Scarecrow makes a pretty sweet return in it as well.)



With some of Gotham’s most dangerous villains returning to action, Gordon will once again find himself tested. Of course, he’ll rise to the occasion—that’s part of who Jim Gordon is. But with everything that’s happened since he became captain, we’re now witnessing a damaged hero try to regain his way. It’s a compelling journey, and it’s unclear at the moment where it’ll take him or if he’ll have to make the journey alone. Currently, things with his best friend Harvey are a little less than great.

“Gordon arguably has done worse than we’ve ever seen Bullock do onscreen,” McKenzie reminds us. “Harvey knows what Jim has done, more or less. Almost all of it. So, there’s a sort of brotherhood of the dirty. They know each other’s baggage and what skeletons they have in their closets. They’re more true peers now, as opposed to Jim having some sort of moral authority over Harvey. That doesn’t mean that Jim doesn’t keep striving, and it doesn’t mean that Harvey doesn’t keep going, ‘Eh, do you really want to fight this?’ But their understanding is a little different.”

As Gordon is feeling more uncertain than he ever has before, he’ll be forced to confront the newly escaped Jerome Velaska, a villain who revels in that sort of chaos—someone who would probably find the idea of one of the most honest people in Gotham being forced to lie to everyone in his life to hold onto his good reputation absolutely hilarious. Jerome has a plan to either control or destroy Gotham that will play out over the rest of the season. However, before he can get to it, Jerome finds himself unexpectedly confronting his past when he’s reunited with an abusive uncle. It doesn’t go how you’d expect, and also manages to paint the escaped psychopath in a sympathetic light.



“I think the more interesting exploration of [villains] is to push things as sympathetic as you can and to see what people react to,” shares McKenzie. “They know Jerome’s a psychopath. They know he’s a villain. There’s that old saying that ‘hurt people hurt people.’ Well, here’s a good example. Jerome was tortured brutally by his uncle, and yet, the way that he has chosen to handle that is to push that pain out at everybody else. Does that make what he’s doing right? Of course not, but we can understand him a little better.”

It’s this world of damaged heroes and sympathetic, often appealing villains that has always made the world of Batman stand out in comics, film and TV, and Gotham, even without its eventual Dark Knight, is no different. The city is all shades of grey, both metaphorically and often literally. As Carmine Falcone so perfectly said earlier this season, “The sun never shines here.”

As McKenzie puts it, “This is not a sanitized world where everyone always survives and the only people who get killed are people running from the huge superhero monster or whatever down the streets of Gotham. People are dying brutal ways all the time, and it’s just our way of reminding the audience of the tone of the show.”



Over four seasons, we’ve seen what Gotham does even to the best people. Death and destruction are the norm, corruption is everywhere and the bad guys are winning. It doesn’t take a lot to feel that way about our world as well—heck, all you really need to do is check the news. You’re bound to find something you think is awful. But what’s great about Gotham, and one of the reasons a dark show like this can continue to be such good escapism, is that we know that there’s cause for hope for the people of the city. We know that Batman’s coming, even if the characters don’t.

While shows like Supergirl, The Flash and Black Lightning give us a hero to serve as inspiration, Gotham’s approach has always been different. It shows us a world at its darkest, and given us a severely compromised hero, ultimately to demonstrate that even when things are at their worst, we should never give up hope. On Gotham, we know it’ll be Batman. In our own world and lives, only time will tell.


"One of My Three Soups," directed by Ben McKenzie, airs tonight on Gotham at 8 p.m. (7 p.m. CST) on FOX.

Which makes me more excited for the upcoming episodes coming up, especially the season finale!
 
I did like Gordon a lot in One Of My Three Soups.
 
Okay so apparently Gotham Hub might be dropping brand-new Joker photos in the next few days. Really excited
 
What I like about Gotham is that it keeps getting stronger every season, while most superhero shows tend to start tailing off after the 3rd season. The build up of Bruce becoming Batman is reminding me a lot of Clark’s ascension to becoming Superman in Smallville.
 
I can't speak for season 4 but that's definitely true of the progression over the first 3 seasons.
 
Gotham Hub got an exclusive look at Gotham concept art, with Penguin wearing a monocle.

Really wish we could've gotten this.
 
So...random thought. Because we haven't seen Harvey Dent in a long time and since Nicolas D'Agosto is busy with Trial and Error on NBC, do you think that if Dent ever returned, that Gotham would recast him? Or heck, maybe he becomes Two-Face off-screen, which would explain the transformation.

At this point, I'm confident that Gotham could probably get away with recasting Harvey, as well and especially Montoya and Allen- remember those two?- and get away with it no problem.
 
I'd very much like to see Dent back, yeah. And I remember reading an interview quite a while back that D'Agosto would like to return to the show, though I have no idea how they'd do it disregarding the concept of recast.

As for Montoya and Allen... who actually cares at this point? They haven't popped up or been mentioned at all since the first half of season 1, and if they did manage to bring them back for whatever reason, they'd have to explain where they've been since then and what they'd been up to, plus their reactions to everything that's happened since then.
 
While I enjoy how all of the villains have developed. It’s at the point where we need Batman.
 
One amusing thing I did notice on the show that they really should have fixed is, why would a billionaire have a 17" CRT TV in his house?
 

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