The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 8

[warcam]

F***....shoot me

 

[Smashlilman]

There was also an Avengers story where Ares was placed in Thor's body by Hera,

Ares-Thor (= Ares' spirit possessing Thor's body) was able to lift Mjolnir. IMO that's a mistake too, because in fact it means that Ares is the one who lifts Mjolnir.

If Mjolnir was able to recognize Thor's soul being unworthy at a time when arrogant Thor really was unworthy, then Mjolnir should also be able to recognize that this time there is an unworthy soul in Thor's body again - this time, of course, not his own soul, but Ares' soul.

Another example:
In a Beta Ray Bill story, Bill does a lot of "unworthy" things resulting in Storm Breaker disobeying him. So Bill cannot lift Storm Breaker any more.

However, in the "Blood and Thunder" storyline, Thor is mad and acts like a villain. But nevertheless, Mjolnir still obeys him.

As I said, a lot of inconsistencies.

I could also make up some Mobo Jombo to explain that.

Mjölnir was the victim of Mystic deception. t: There is that better. Kind of like how Loki was able to use his Magic to hide from Heimdall and Odin's Omniscient.

You would think that Hera and Zeus would have the power to be able to negate Odin's Enchantments.

 

[Incredible Hans]

I could also make up some Mobo Jombo to explain that.

Mjölnir was the victim of Mystic deception. t: There is that better. Kind of like how Loki was able to use his Magic to hide from Heimdall and Odin's Omniscient.

I can always come up with a good explanation. t:

However, it would be better if the writer came up with an explanation.

 

[biggles2000uk]

wasnt it that:

if Banner lost control of his emotional anger/stress the Hulk would be a mindless monster.

But if Banner chooses to "Hulk Out", he can be controled. Hence the line "That's my secret, I'm angry all the time", i.e he can subdue to Hulk until he chooses to unleash him.

Think this was something confided to Stark, off screen, when they were working together, hence why Stark knew Banner would come to the fight to help rather than be another beast to combat.

 

[Smashlilman]

I can always come up with a good explanation. t:

However, it would be better if the writer came up with an explanation.

lol the writers don't have to benefit of hindsight.

 

[Incredible Hans]

You would think that Hera and Zeus would have the power to be able to negate Odin's Enchantments.

Well, when Thor fought Zeus and hurled his hammer at him, Zeus was able to catch Mjolnir and hold it for a few seconds. Only for a few seconds, then Mjolnir broke free and came back to Thor.

 

[El Payaso]

wasnt it that:

if Banner lost control of his emotional anger/stress the Hulk would be a mindless monster.

But if Banner chooses to "Hulk Out", he can be controled. Hence the line "That's my secret, I'm angry all the time", i.e he can subdue to Hulk until he chooses to unleash him.

Think this was something confided to Stark, off screen, when they were working together, hence why Stark knew Banner would come to the fight to help rather than be another beast to combat.

I find no sense in that, but even so, was this ever explained in the movie?

 

[SaF]

wow this thread is getting kinda scary

I've only got to know these characters throught the marvel cinema films, but being as the avengers film is set in that universe... I think its fair to interpret what is show in those films as the 'rules of picking up mjolnir' in this case, ie when think about the avengers movie...

in Thor's movie, he has to basically die to prove his worthiness to earn the right to weild the hammer back, and only by willingly sacrificing himself for the good/protection of others.

So far in the movies, Hulk has not done anything like this, yes he's done some good but often it was linked to him personally (ie save Betty). Even the fight with abomination wasn't the same, because it wasn't certain he would die in that fight, he could have but it wasn't a cold hard certainty that he faced and accepted like in Thor.

Odin also says its a 'companion of kings', suitable to both build and to fight with, so I would say the 'worthiness' comes from not just seeing it as a weapon to break stuff with, which at this point I think would be all Hulk would do with it!

So I think its perfect that

Spoiler

no matter how hard he tries in this film, he can't pick it up. There is no question in my mind that mjolnir wasn't going anywhere with Hulk's fists on the handle, he was giving it everything, and all he was doing was denting the floor with his feet!

The only other person that I think you could argue could pick it up in this film world is Captain America, who has done similar acts of self sacrifice to save lots of people, strangers that he had no connection to. The end of his film shows this perfectly, so I think you could make a case for him picking it up. Not Hulk though, as much as I like him =)

Oh and I guess after the events of this film...

Spoiler

you could also argue for Stark to pick it up, but that just seems really wrong! =/

 

[Goliath]

To be honest, I'm surprised that :

Spoiler

Loki was able to take the amount of physical punishment that he did from the Hulk and live. I understand Asgardians are tougher than human beings, but Loki was violently smashed into concrete, multiple times ... and lived.

Also, he took an explosion to the face after he caught the arrow from Hawkeye. No blood, no bruises either, which surprised me. The guy isn't Superman. He was tackled by Hulk, the force knocked him against a wall, managed to get up without any problems. Just surprised at the level of physical punishment he was able to endure. His endurance and durability levels seemed abnormally high.

Also, Captain America was thrown around like a rag doll by Loki. Another surprise. Never thought Loki would be as strong as Captain America but it appeared he was much stronger than him in The Avengers.

 

[Incredible Hans]

And Captain really picked up Mjolnir in the comics...

 

[Incredible Hans]

To be honest, I'm surprised that :

Spoiler

Loki was able to take the amount of physical punishment that he did from the Hulk and live. I understand Asgardians are tougher than human beings, but Loki was violently smashed into concrete, multiple times ... and lived.

Also, he took an explosion to the face after he caught the arrow from Hawkeye. No blood, no bruises either, which surprised me. The guy isn't Superman. He was tackled by Hulk, the force knocked him against a wall, managed to get up without any problems. Just surprised at the level of physical punishment he was able to endure. His endurance and durability levels seemed abnormally high.

Also, Captain America was thrown around like a rag doll by Loki. Another surprise. Never thought Loki would be as strong as Captain America but it appeared he was much stronger than him in The Avengers.

You have to keep in mind:

Spoiler

Loki is an Asgardian. Okay, actually he is the offspring of Frost Giants, but that doesn't matter, he still is supposed to have the physical strength of a typical Asgardian. Which means he can lift at least 30 tons and can take a lot of damage.
Asgardians are strong, even if they are magicians and no fighters. The Enchantress, who presumably is physically weaker than Loki, once slammed She-Hulk - without using any magic.
(Okay, She-Hulk was taken by surprise because she didn't expect the Enchantress to be that strong... but nevertheless, it shows you what an ordinary Asgardian can do.)

 

[Goliath]

So basically an average Asgardian is much stronger than Spiderman (who himself is supposed to be a lot stronger than Captain America). Watching Thor I never got the impression that Loki (or Thors compatriots) were that strong at all. Now I hear they can basically lift a tank up (assuming a tank weighs 30 tonnes or so). Doesn't sit right with me. I really had no idea that Asguardians were supposed to be that strong.

 

[Incredible Hans]

So basically an average Asgardian is much stronger than Spiderman (who himself is supposed to be a lot stronger than Captain America). I really have no idea that Asguardians were supposed to be that strong.

In a deleted scene from the Thor movie, Volstagg lifts a car while on earth. With ease.

 

[Goliath]

In a deleted scene from the Thor movie, Volstagg lifts a car while on earth. With ease.

Okay.

 

[Smashlilman]

In a deleted scene from the Thor movie, Volstagg lifts a car while on earth. With ease.

lol Volstagg seemed stronger than TIH's Hulk in that scene. They should have left that scene in Thor.

 

[Son of Coul]

A thought struck me during the Harry Dean Stanton Janitor cameo - I reckon if Bill Bixby was still alive that cameo wouldve been his.

That woulda been nice

 

[Goliath]

Also, in my opinion :

Spoiler

Some people claim that the fight between Thor and Hulk resulted in a stalemate, but I disagree. I think it was clear that Thor was outmatched as the fight progressed. I think if the fight had continued for much longer I think Hulk would have done serious damage to Thor, at least that's the impression I was given.

 

[Nathan]

Also, in my opinion :

Spoiler

Some people claim that the fight between Thor and Hulk resulted in a stalemate, but I disagree. I think it was clear that Thor was outmatched as the fight progressed. I think if the fight had continued for much longer I think Hulk would have done serious damage to Thor, at least that's the impression I was given.

Spoiler

Thor didn't even use his best Moves in that fight. It was just regular close combat and hammer throws. No lightning, no Tornados, nothing. If Thor would have wanted to take Hulk down, he probably could have done it. And even after the entire fight, all he carried away from it was a nosebleed.

 

[Goliath]

Spoiler

Thor didn't even use his best Moves in that fight. It was just regular close combat and hammer throws. No lightning, no Tornados, nothing. If Thor would have wanted to take Hulk down, he probably could have done it. And even after the entire fight, all he carried away from it was a nosebleed.

Yes, he probably could have. But without his hammer, he was getting owned. Another minute with the green giant and I think Thor would have been killed.

 

[WildcatNC]

Spoiler

Yes, he probably could have. But without his hammer, he was getting owned. Another minute with the green giant and I think Thor would have been killed.

Nah. Could have went on for days with no victor.

 

[WildcatNC]

You would think that Hera and Zeus would have the power to be able to negate Odin's Enchantments.

Not at all. Zeus can hang with Odin but i'm not sure either can "negate" the others powers, just have comparable abilities themselves.

 

[Eggyman]

Nah. Could have went on for days with no victor.

I agree. Thor showed his power in stopping one of Hulk's blows. Hulk was the aggressor, that shows. I also keep in mind the setting. Thor would be aware of the location, limiting what he can do while trying to defuse the situation. Whereas Hulk doesn't really care. I can't call it. I don't even think I'd want to call it.

 

[Goliath]

Spoiler

Nah. Could have went on for days with no victor.

How do you know that? Thor bled from the mouth early on in the fight. Hulk seemed unfazed, even when hit with the hammer. Without his hammer it's clear Thor was physically outmatched. Right up to the point where the fighter jet started firing at Hulk, Thor was being owned.

One can speculate and say the circumstances would have been different in an open environment, but they were not. So again, extend the fight by another minute, Thor without his hammer, what do you think will be the outcome of this fight?

 

[Nathan]

I agree. Thor showed his power in stopping one of Hulk's blows. Hulk was the aggressor, that shows. I also keep in mind the setting. Thor would be aware of the location, limiting what he can do while trying to defuse the situation. Whereas Hulk doesn't really care. I can't call it. I don't even think I'd want to call it.

I'd say, had he been really serious, the first thing Thor would have done is to take the fight outside.

 

[Goliath]

Spoiler

Thor showed his power in stopping one of Hulk's blows.

Well Thor did use two hands. Even then, he was struggling.