The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 8

[Smashlilman]

Yes, but as always it comes down to who writes it. It goes both ways, with examples like Hulk even refusing to fight Thor if he has Mjolnir because Hulk just gets smacked around when Thor used it. I guess that's why these discussions will always be around and the fans of each character will naturally prefer the comics where their favorite is presented the best.

The visual artist in the above frame wasn't too good though.

seen it but can't remember where the pics are.

 

[Goliath]

Spoiler

The same fall, with a slightly better landing, knocks Hulk out in the movie so clearly he can't fall that far and be just fine.

Spoiler

Yeah, seems pretty darn sloppy to me.

 

[Anti Goku]

Maybe he was so heated he knocked put from a headache otherwise how would he be able to jump miles high and land perfectly fine?

 

[Anti Goku]

I'm also wondering if hulk is stronger when banner transforms at will or involuntarily

 

[Smashlilman]

I'm also wondering if hulk is stronger when banner transforms at will or involuntarily

I would assume at will. Because banner isn't fighting the hulk internally.

 

[Mjölnir]

The above is a spoiler to a pretty special scene so you guys should probably tag that for the ones that haven't even had a chance to see it yet.

But to answer Anti Goku's question.

Spoiler

Hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets so if he gets so angry that he has an involuntary transformation that should make him stronger. Still Hulk can of course get angrier and angrier even after a controlled transformation as well.

 

[Fifthchild]

Spoiler

I could have written that better as I didn't mean that he avoids hurting him at all but doesn't want to seriously hurt, or kill, him. It's backed up by him just not throwing the same big things as he did in other fights in the film, plus that it's a characteristic of Thor from the comics.

Spoiler

I think the only big thing he could throw which he didnt was the lightning and he couldnt do that because they were indoors. i just dont see any evidence he was holding back or any logical reason why he would be.

Spoiler

Thor doesn't know how much Hulk can take. He had never seen him before. And another very undesirable effect of Thor going all out would be the collateral damage to the Helicarrier.

Spoiler

I think Thor would have a pretty good idea that Hulk can take quite a lot after he is struggling to hold his arm back and after Hulk decks him. And if he was worried about the helicarrier (which he didnt seem to be given all the jets that got trashed) the best thing to do would be to just lay Hulk out if he could.

Spoiler

Yes, it's possible such a strike would just send the victim flying a long way if it's not reflected. Still, you never saw Thor make something like a jumping, two-handed strike in the Hulk fight, nor did he ever seem as angry, whatever that says.

Spoiler

Thor never had the opportunity to jump into the air and fly down on Hulk but that doesnt mean he wasnt giving everything he had in the fight. Whether Thor looked angry or not isnt really relevant since Thor doesnt have an anger based dynamic powerset like the Hulk does in the comics. Most people fight better when they arent angry.

 

[Oruku Saki]

What's more interesting to me is that:

Spoiler

Thor wasn't sure if he would be hurt badly/killed from 35,000 feet; as he was trying desperately to get out of the cell when it dropped. Loki seemed pretty confident that it would hurt Thor badly or possibly kill him from that height as well. Also, the fact that Thor basically just jumped through the glass and out makes me think Hulk could have broken out pretty easily. The other things people are forgetting is that SHIELD had no clue banner couldn't be killed until he tells them in the helicarrier scene he tried to kill himself before and it didn't work. I'm thinking they thought they could drop Banner to his death if need be.

 

[Fifthchild]

How high up was the Helicopter in TIH? Because in Avengers, the container drops from 30,000ft. As Hulk's strength level is unknown, they can't really know if it would kill him. Only hope.

Terminal velocity.

Spoiler

Honestly the fall probably shouldnt really bother either of them given what they are shown tanking in the film. The 2003 Hulk of course fell from the edge of space into San Francisco Harbour. It isnt definitively shown that the Hulk was KOed by his fall in The Avengers either, only that he transformed to Banner there but its certainly not an unreasonable assumption given what we see.

The film does seem to act as if a fall from 30,000 feet in a steel cage is A BIG DEAL which is a little confusing given Hulk hardly noticing that jet opening up on him etc. As mentioned terminal velocity means that after a certain distance any extra height has no bearing on the force of the impact.

 

[Oruku Saki]

Terminal velocity for Hulk is prob 125mph...no way that would hurt Hulk no matter how high the fall. I think it's more probable that Hulk:

Spoiler

Calmed down after he was away from all the action on the Helicarrier/during his descent back to earth and the scene where we see Banner is probably right after his transformation.

 

[Mjölnir]

Spoiler

I think the only big thing he could throw which he didnt was the lightning and he couldnt do that because they were indoors. i just dont see any evidence he was holding back or any logical reason why he would be.

Spoiler

Yes, if you keep ignoring the explanations to the arguments it will of course not seem logical. As I said, Thor has been holding back in fights for ages in the comics so there's tons of precedent.

And I maintain my opinion that no attack Thor throws in the Helicarrier seems as impressive as the biggest ones he does outside, even outside pure lightning. As for lightning, when Thor kills a leviathan with a hammer blow Mjolnir starts being electrified without lighting striking it.

Spoiler

I think Thor would have a pretty good idea that Hulk can take quite a lot after he is struggling to hold his arm back and after Hulk decks him. And if he was worried about the helicarrier (which he didnt seem to be given all the jets that got trashed) the best thing to do would be to just lay Hulk out if he could.

Spoiler

Thor, like Hulk, can apparently smash leviathans with one blow. It seems strange that he'd just assume that because Hulk is strong he can throw whatever at him and he won't die. And regarding the collateral damage, when Thor smacks Hulk into a jet the first time it doesn't exactly seem like his biggest swing. He also wrecks a wall when trying to get Hulk away from Widow. If that happens at that point, what would happen if those two just went all out?

Spoiler

Thor never had the opportunity to jump into the air and fly down on Hulk but that doesnt mean he wasnt giving everything he had in the fight. Whether Thor looked angry or not isnt really relevant since Thor doesnt have an anger based dynamic powerset like the Hulk does in the comics. Most people fight better when they arent angry.

Spoiler

It's just an example and he doesn't need to jump up in the air, he could just jump forward and get more of his own momentum in there. And Thor being angry or not definitely has bearing on his intent with his attacks. He knows Hulk/Banner is a potential ally, and that he's a human out of control, plus that he seems to think the battle is fun. Not exactly looking like the mood where you do everything you can to kill someone, and both Thor and Hulk should be quite used to being able to kill things if they want.

 

[Mjölnir]

Terminal velocity for Hulk is prob 125mph...no way that would hurt Hulk no matter how high the fall. I think it's more probable that Hulk:

Spoiler

Calmed down after he was away from all the action on the Helicarrier/during his descent back to earth and the scene where we see Banner is probably right after his transformation.

Thinking in physics isn't always a good idea. If you do that you'd have to realize that Hulk would often fly away himself when he punched things, because he doesn't have the mass to neutralize the counter force.

 

[Oruku Saki]

From everything I've read in the comics for many years I believe that a true all-out Hulk (Savage/Worldbreaker) vs Thor (10x power/Warrior Madness etc) would end basically as basically Supes v. Doomsday. I much rather prefer then working together...as a matter of fact I wish there would be at least a limited run of Thor and Hulk working together against a huge foe like Galactus etc.

 

[AZChris]

Watching TIH right now.Looks wise, I have to say I prefer that version of the Hulk more.He just seemed more dynamic.

If they made TIH Hulk a little more bulky and gave him the personality of Avengers Hulk, He'd be damn near perfect IMO

 

[Oruku Saki]

Thinking in physics isn't always a good idea. If you do that you'd have to realize that Hulk would often fly away himself when he punched things, because he doesn't have the mass to neutralize the counter force.

Not using physics, just stating that if Hulk can take rounds from a jet without flinching why would a 125mph impact knock him out? His mass neutralization issue could be explained as his leg force pushing behind accounting for his punching force forward. I mean, he doesn't throw a punch standing square, that would just be weird.

 

[Anti Goku]

Thinking in physics isn't always a good idea. If you do that you'd have to realize that Hulk would often fly away himself when he punched things, because he doesn't have the mass to neutralize the counter force.

Kind of like TIH when the two jeeps are blasting hulk with the sonic cannons or whatever they were and somehow he didn't fly back even though his feet weren't sinking into the ground. I found it funny as I was wondering how the hell he could stop himself from flying back as he didn't have the mass and I'm talking before using the two pieces of metal as a shield

And also after avengers of course my favorite scene with hulk in it is from 03 Take it all!!!!!!!!!!! Damn I love that scene especially the voice

 

[Oruku Saki]

Maybe Hulk is like the blob and can negate/add mass to his body at will. lol

 

[Herolee10]

I also liked on how:
'

Spoiler

The Hulk was shown diverting one of the flying dragons from smashing into a crowded building. At first, I thought it was just him just running into it from inside the building for the sake of just smashing it, but with more info, it seems that he actually had a larger purpose to it since he immediately aimed towards diverting the dragon's direction from crashing into the building, and thus saving everyone inside it.

And from what I've been told, the Hulk definitely comes off as having some ape like traits in the way he walks growls at times.

 

[irapogi]

I also liked on how:
'

Spoiler

The Hulk was shown diverting one of the flying dragons from smashing into a crowded building. At first, I thought it was just him just running into it from inside the building for the sake of just smashing it, but with more info, it seems that he actually had a larger purpose to it since he immediately aimed towards diverting the dragon's direction from crashing into the building, and thus saving everyone inside it.

And from what I've been told, the Hulk definitely comes off as having some ape like traits in the way he walks growls at times.

Spoiler

It was brilliant that he was steering the leviathan. i cheered

 

[Smashlilman]

The above is a spoiler to a pretty special scene so you guys should probably tag that for the ones that haven't even had a chance to see it yet.

But to answer Anti Goku's question.

Spoiler

Hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets so if he gets so angry that he has an involuntary transformation that should make him stronger. Still Hulk can of course get angrier and angrier even after a controlled transformation as well.

Why did you say that I haven't even seen the movie! I was just speculating.

 

[Anti Goku]

Uh-oh

 

[Roose Bolton]

After hearing Hulk's new voice for a second time I think it's grown on me quite a bit

 

[Incredible Hans]

Incredible Hans :

Spoiler

So dropping a giant container trapping the Hulk inside was supposed to ... kill him? I see. Now please point me to the evidence that suggests that Shield assumed the fall would kill the Hulk. Thanks.

@ Goliath:

Spoiler

What kind of evidence to you want?

I'm not able to prove that - just like you are not able to prove the opposite. Or just like you are not able to prove that Hulk would've won the fight if it continued.

I only can point out what is logical.

1) The cage wasn't built for Loki, but for Hulk.
2) The cage is in fact a death trap: if the prisoner tries to escape, you can drop the whole cage and let it fall to the ground.
3) Since it was desigend for the Hulk, it makes very much sense that SHIELD assumed that such a fall would kill the Hulk.
4) Otherwise, SHIELD would have built a different kind of death trap.
5) It doesn't make much sense that SHIELD thougt: "Oh yes, if the Hulk tries to escape, we'll drop the cage. It won't kill him, he will survive it and be free." The whole death trap thing only makes sense if it prevents Hulk from getting free! What interest would SHIELD have to let Hulk fall and let him go free???

 

[Incredible Hans]

Why did you say that I haven't even seen the movie! I was just speculating.

Sorry, I don't get it. He did put it in spoiler tags, didn't he?

 

[Oruku Saki]

I think you guys need to watch the movie a few more times cause you are missing the dialogue that explains the container. Banner says

Spoiler

"to kill me" and continues to say it won't work cause he has already tried. For all intents and purposes there is "NO" way in hell they could have possibly gotten a raging Hulk near that container;Maria Hill confirms this as soon as Hulk is spotted on board their only objective is to get him off the helicarrier. So, the only other option is that they put in an unchanged Banner. Fury had no clue Banner couldn't be killed because the Hulk won't allow; hence the dialogue from Banner himself. I believe, from what is in the movie; is that they would drop Banner; and if he changed hold him long enough to get off the ship (possibly into the ocean where he could do basically no harm and give time to calm down)