The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 9

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i loved the hulk but i miss the green eye glow as he changes. nothing for me has even come close to the emotion of bixby when he is changing.
 
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If they do...I really think it needs to be a team-up. Hulk and Iron Man.

No. Give Hulk a true solo film. But to be on the safe side, bring in RDJ for a few cameo scenes, without him donning the IM costume.

I'm sure Marvel has taken notice at all the praise Hulk's getting, and the B.o, etc, i'm sure they're considering it.

Throw in Hulk, The leader, maybe an alternate personality for a 3rd of the movie i.e Gray Hulk, and maybe some gamma mutants that The Leader has created we'll have a pretty good film.

It's hard to watch TIH now. Every other hero in the Avengers line up's solo movies look has been consistant, same actor, same vibe, etc. TIH really feels out of place among these line up of films..really. They need to give us another Hulk film with Ruffalo to smooth things out.
 
In Ang Lee's Hulk they were at Cal-Berkely. In TIH, they were at a college in Virginia.

I know that but it can still be seen as a revisionist/vague sequel about as much as Superman Returns is a sequel to Donner's Superman movies. I'm not arguing that it is a sequel. That's just plain common sense. I'm saying that it can be enjoyed as one in that you can say these events happened without being too specific. It was actually quite fun to watch them back to back. Especially with that look T-Bolt Ross gave Banner when he finds him in South America after I just previously watched their history. It adds a lot when I've seen WHY Banner had to go on the run and why he had to stay away from Betty for so long (especially considering how sad I thought their ending in Hulk was).
 
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i loved the hulk but i miss the green eye glow as he changes. nothing for me has even come close to the emotion of bixby when he is changing.

I agree, although I did like the first transformation in Avengers. I liked how you could barely see his face, and the deepening of his voice. I put it there with the first transformation in Ang's film as my favorites on the big screen so far. But personally, I don't think Ruffalo was in the movie enough to say he was definitively better than the previous actors like some of the reviews lead me to believe.
 
There have definitely been a lot of reinventions of the character over the years. Probably because they pushed the same angle for a long time and it got a little stale. When Peter David took over the book in the early 80s he was told he could do whatever he wanted with it since nobody cared.

PADs run is highly acclaimed and its what got me seriously into the character and comics, rekindling my childhood affection. Planet Hulk is probably my favourite ever individual Hulk story and WWH is fun but after that i have to admit that Pak went pretty far downhill and much of the rest of his run is only good if you like seeing Hulk pulling off absurd feats. But if you arent already a fanboy then the Peter David (PAD) run is a good place to start. Its very long and it has a real drop off in quality around issue 442 to 460 but it covers a lot of ground and reinvents the character with classic graphic novels like Future Imperfect and Hulk: The End worth mentioning. He had a second, much shorter, run thats also decent though a bit brief to do much.

Thanks for the recommendations. Peter David seems to be widely regarded as the definitive Hulk writer, though it seems his early stuff especially is pretty old. I don't object to reading older comics, but I typically graduate to them after using more recent stories with the character as an entry point. But I might give some of his stuff another look.

It seems that, when it comes to recommendations for Hulk comics, Peter David's run and Planet Hulk tend to always be the undisputed front runners. It's a shame, but it seems like The Hulk doesn't quite have the classic comics back catalogue to match his iconic status.

I remember when I was a kid, I got a whole bunch of 90s Hulk comics in back issue stores. There, he was depicted as having the intelligence and personality of Bruce Banner, but in The Hulk's body. And Rhino - a villain I'm very fond of - seemed to show up in quite a few of the stories. I remember enjoying those.

I actually have high hopes for Jason Aaron's current run on The Incredible Hulk. It's not there yet - the series has been hampered with some murky art - but Jason Aaron is one of the best writers around, with his Scalped a true comics masterpiece. I think that with the right artist, and just a little nudge in momentum, this run could become something really special.
 
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Thanks for the recommendations. Peter David seems to be widely regarded as the definitive Hulk writer, though it seems his early stuff especially is pretty old. I don't object to reading older comics, but I typically graduate to them after using more recent stories with the character as an entry point. But I might give some of his stuff another look.

It seems that, when it comes to recommendations for Hulk comics, Peter David's run and Planet Hulk tend to always be the undisputed front runners. It's a shame, but it seems like The Hulk doesn't quite have the classic comics back catalogue to match his iconic status.

I remember when I was a kid, I got a whole bunch of 90s Hulk comics in back issue stores. There, he was depicted as having the intelligence and personality of Bruce Banner, but in The Hulk's body. And Rhino - a villain I'm very fond of - seemed to show up in quite a few of the stories. I remember enjoying those.

I actually have high hopes for Jason Aaron's current run on The Incredible Hulk. It's not there yet - the series has been hampered with some murky art - but Jason Aaron is one of the best writers around, with his Scalped a true comics masterpiece. I think that with the right artist, and just a little nudge in momentum, this run could become something really special.

Not quite true. I'd say few characters have the classic/long runs like the ones from Mantlo, PAD (fow 12 years) and (a good part of) Pak. Not to mention great stories like Future Imperfect and Hulk:The End.
 
Man, the big four of the Avengers all have classic comics. Thor, Hulk, and Cap especially
 
It's tragic what happened to him.

Perhaps they could have a tribute to him in a future Hulk movie. Maybe someone could knock Banner over in a rollerblading hit and run, and it could turn him into the Hulk and he could get his revenge on the skater.
 
Because that would be a totally rational response. :o
 
I would much rather see Marvel kicking in some of those record opening-weekend dollars towards his health care.
 
Roger Stern short run.. issues 222-225 against The Leader. Read this story and see how Banner thought he was cured....Build on this story. Leader took over Gamma Base and had his humanoids.. controlled everyone. Perfect story for a sequel.
 
I just HATE how Bob Iger totally ignored TIH contribution to the success of the Avengers....which tells me, we wont be getting a sequel to TIH.
 
What contribution did it have? The only thing I could think of is the after-credits scene, but that's pushing 'contribution'... I'm not a huge fan of TIH so biased anyway.
 
Film Crit Hulk wrote a great piece distinguishing Ruffalo's Hulk from Bixby's, Bana's and Norton's and what he thinks makes a compelling Hulk. I think any Hulk/Banner fan would enjoy this:

In truth, Bixby’s Banner was his own kind of hero; a true moralist in the grand tradition of Atticus Finch. Which means the reason his manifestations of the Hulk resonated so deeply is because we truly cared about what happened to him. In truth, he was the last person you would ever want cursed with being the incredible Hulk. And that’s what made the show dramatic. It was a basic understanding of motive. The audience can’t just be sitting around waiting for the Hulk-out. Sometimes you have to be afraid of the Hulk. Sometimes you don’t want him to turn at all. Sometimes you need him to because the characters we care about need him to turn. It was never about the joy of destruction, it was about the heart of empathy.

And that is precisely where the two recent Hulk films failed. They were interested in the character but had no idea how to play it for dramatic purposes. Sure, both films had some admirable qualities. Ang Lee’s film is at times beautiful and delirious, but so disappears into Banner’s own demons that the audience loses all sense of banner-empathy and motive. And Leterrier’s more recent film tries to rely solely on the tv’s show’s iconography and ends up doing that dreaded assumption thing hulk mentioned earlier. Both films even had a strong central actor playing Bruce Banner, but both Eric Bana and Edward Norton’s versions of the character were defined by a sense of solipsistic detachment. It was as if they mistook the “self-sacrifice” element of the character for relentless dourism, which resulted in a rather un-bixbian sense of being closed off. Nobody likes their heroes mopey. And rarely do we like the central conflict to be a battle in the character’s own mind. When it comes right down to it, neither actor seemed to realize that “the lonely man” didn’t really want to be lonely at all.

Enter Mark Ruffalo.

It’s safe to say that with his performance in Joss Whedon’s “The Avengers” some of those much needed qualities have returned. He doesn’t quite have Bixby’s paternal element, but he does have that same inherent kindness. He isn’t moping or obsessed with his own problems, he’s gentle and dignified. There’s something so unassuming and even cute about him. When we first meet Dr. Banner in India, he’s doing medical work for the poor in “the most stressful place in the world.” But that doesn’t seem to be an issue for him. Some years have passed and somehow he seems in full control. But he also seems impossibly weary and haggard. He’s a man who has lived and lost more than imaginable.

But luckily for the audience, Whedon and Ruffalo know the best way to make this sadness resonate. Rather than hammer it home over and over again like the films before, they put Banner out of his element and right into the thick of a somewhat “joyful” environment. Sure, the Avengers are dealing with some end-of-the-world gravitas, but all these giant personalities are bumping up against one another and having a ball. And as you watch Banner you can see these hints that he’s having so much fun. Sure, he plays it demure, but watching him connect in the lab with Tony Stark is one of the more joyful interactions he (and as empathy dictates, thereby the audience) has ever had.

Which is exactly what makes Banner’s rueful admission of a suicide attempt later on all the more gutting. Note that Ruffalo does not play the scene for sadness or maudlin sympathy. Instead, there is an alarming normalcy to his admission. He’s simply cursed with ongoing life. And it is his performance in this scene that highlights just how much this Banner is unlike any version we’ve had before. Perhaps it’s Ruffalo’s slight mumble or the way he speaks as if he’s always on the verge of a wry smile, but one can’t help but sense that his Banner finds something funny about all of this. It’s as if he is the only one who is keenly aware of a cruel joke being played on the world. And never is this secrecy more apparent then when his fellow avengers constantly express their concern for an imminent “Hulk out.” Instead of listening, he just casually dismisses these concerns as trivial. He’s in control. The question is, how?

Over the course of the film he constantly refers to his big green personality as “the other guy.” At first we think it’s one of those standard dissociative techniques. We assume this is motivated by simple fear, fear that we will grow angry and come to hurt people. But really this dissociation is about maintaining his “secret,” which is the very truth about how he stays in control and stops himself from getting too angry.

And then we learn the obvious truth: he’s always angry.

And as such, we learn that Banner can call out his Hulk at a moment’s notice. Which, in this Hulk’s opinion, is a wonderful evolution of the character. It speaks to the idea that our emotions are something that always present. Anger can’t be abstained from. It cannot be feared. Anger is simply an ever-present part of us, just as much as joy, sadness, or even something instinctual like hunger. It is something that is just felt. And Hulk believes this is precisely where “the cruel joke” comes into play. For years, Banner battled his own mind and merely turned out that fear of his own anger was a trap. Really, he had to understand it. To recognize it and accept it. And that’s precisely what brought genuine control. The whole thing seems like a contradiction, but no more a contradiction than the idea that unleashing “the other guy” can be the very thing that makes his Hulk heroic. It is this ever-coiling duality of the Hulk that is paramount to our finding the character compelling.

...

Hulk came of age during a the comic’s period of disassociate identities. The era of the loquacious Joe Fixit and bumbling Savage Hulk. Heck, there were whole story-lines where Hulk would be banished by Dr. Strange to a weird space-limbo / cross-dimensional hell (don’t ask), so weirdness never seemed all that outlandish. And more important, there wasn’t a “singularity” to the Hulk identity. And the truth is there never has been. Especially today, when the character has evolved and changed and gone through so many different versions that you could say we Hulks contain Whitman-esque multitudes.
So again, Hulk gets asked the question all the time: what makes a good Hulk?

And the answer is anything if you can make it compelling enough. But there’s no denying that Hulks seem to be most compelling when you ground them in contradiction and explore life’s grand duality. Ruffalo’s Banner/Hulk is one of the more dextrous and all-encompassing versions we’ve ever had and it’s no accident that people have been loving the crap out of him in the film.
So of course his version of the Hulk can be a contradiction, because the Hulk is a contradiction.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/05/the-hulk-on-mark-ruffalos-hulk.html
 
For the next Hulk film, instead of focusing on Banner trying to cure himself, I want one of the main plots to be Banner actively trying to stop something terrible from happening/being unleashed on society; I can't remember a time where we actually saw many versions of Bruce/Hulk actively stopping some disaster plot from taking place.

Instead of just reacting to disaster, I want to see him being proactive about it; have it where the events of TA made him more confident in his own abilities so that he's actively using the Hulk to do good in the world.
 
For the next Hulk film, instead of focusing on Banner trying to cure himself, I want one of the main plots to be Banner actively trying to stop something terrible from happening/being unleashed on society; I can't remember a time where we actually saw many versions of Bruce/Hulk actively stopping some disaster plot from taking place.

Instead of just reacting to disaster, I want to see him being proactive about it; have it where the events of TA made him more confident in his own abilities so that he's actively using the Hulk to do good in the world.

I agree. That should be a natural progression of his character. If we got another Hulk film and it just turned out to be another Hulk being chased by the military I'll pull my hair out. Been there done that.
 
There was a really great Hulk story where he teamed up with some Shield agents to stop the Leader from mass producing Gamma bombs, which lead up to the Ground Zero storyline
 
I agree. That should be a natural progression of his character. If we got another Hulk film and it just turned out to be another Hulk being chased by the military I'll pull my hair out. Been there done that.


Agreed; heck in TA, you get the distinct impression that Mark's Bruce actually cares about the world around him and its safety, as evidenced when you saw him irritated when he found out that SHIELD was creating weapons of mass destruction from the cube.

And as that brilliant article above mentioned; there's this innate warmness about Mark's Bruce, similar to Bixby's Banner, where you can really feel that this is a good person inside, despite all of his issues.

This was shown in Mark's expressions for Bruce during his scenes in India. Something as small as Bruce protecting the little girl from accidentally running into the oncoming car while going to the hut, or how he was just there in India to help people period was great.

And the way that he delivered his sarcastic line about how being on the Hellcarrier was much more worse than being in a submerged submarine was great.

With Mark's Bruce, audiences cant help but like this guy, which I think was one of the issues with Bana's and Norton's versions: they couldn't get audiences to really emphasize with them.
 
Agreed; heck in TA, you get the distinct impression that Mark's Bruce actually cares about the world around him and its safety, as evidenced when you saw him irritated when he found out that SHIELD was creating weapons of mass destruction from the cube.

And as that brilliant article above mentioned; there's this innate warmness about Mark's Bruce, similar to Bixby's Banner, where you can really feel that this is a good person inside, despite all of his issues.

This was shown in Mark's expressions for Bruce during his scenes in India. Something as small as Bruce protecting the little girl from accidentally running into the oncoming car while going to the hut, or how he was just there in India to help people period was great.

And the way that he delivered his sarcastic line about how being on the Hellcarrier was much more worse than being in a submerged submarine was great.

With Mark's Bruce, audiences cant help but like this guy, which I think was one of the issues with Bana's and Norton's versions: they couldn't get audiences to really emphasize with them.

I agree with all the points you made save for the bit on Norton. I didn't really care for Bana, but I did like what Norton did, it was a shame we couldn't have gotten Norton for continuity's sake, but I made way for Ruffalo's Hulk which is extremely enjoyable and my favorite thus far.
 
I agree with all the points you made save for the bit on Norton. I didn't really care for Bana, but I did like what Norton did, it was a shame we couldn't have gotten Norton for continuity's sake, but I made way for Ruffalo's Hulk which is extremely enjoyable and my favorite thus far.


Yeah it still sucks about continuity; it's strange though, Whedon mentioned on how Mark was like the FIRST person on Marve's radar when they were looking for another Banner, and I'm like thinking, why couldn't they have gotten Mark from the beginning then?lol..well that and a new director and visual effects company.lol

Seriously, whoever writes and directs the next Hulk film have better have a good sense of what it means to direct something properly along with how to tell a great Hulk Story (that isn't about Ultimate Hulk, since I hated that version.lol)

WE need a more heroic Hulk that can speak more like EMH as well, imho; TA was definitely a great launching point to expand and broaden the appeal of the Hulk's character to the GA as well.

And for once, I would rather prefer seeing him being able to enjoy some of the normal things in life, like being able to have a relationship with Betty Ross instead of always being on the run and alone.
 
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