The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Part 3

[Troy_Parker]

I'm pretty sure it was a mix of a a practical mask with a closed mouth and CGI.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I'm pretty sure it was a mix of a a practical mask with a closed mouth and CGI.

That was what I figured from images from the making of.

 

[Troy_Parker]

Closed mouth Venom on the left, open mouth Venom on the right. The one on the right would have the jaw and whatnot added in with CGI.

EDIT: Nvm, looks like you knew already.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Closed mouth Venom on the left, open mouth Venom on the right. The one on the right would have the jaw and whatnot added in with CGI.

EDIT: Nvm, looks like you knew already.

Interesting. I was thinking it would be possible to use motion-capture on the mouth portion to capture the actor's performance in the CGI mouth. Do you think this would work?

 

[Troy_Parker]

I only have the most basic knowledge of all of that stuff.

It should work. But it might be a little pointless. If it was to do with the way the actor was going to carry himself, then yes...motion-capture should be used.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I only have the most basic knowledge of all of that stuff.

It should work. But it might be a little pointless. If it was to do with the way the actor was going to carry himself, then yes...motion-capture should be used.

The idea is to address the concern of the CGI mouth not moving in sync with the dialogue. Or I could just cheat a little and have Venom form cheeks for dialogue intensive scenes.

 

[Troy_Parker]

Well the dialogue is going to be dubbed over/edited anyways...so maybe they could animate the mouth according to that?

Motion capture might not be a bad idea now that you mention it.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Speaking of those, I remember during the S-M3 days when people were worried why his mouh was closed. Venom had his mouth closed a number of times in the early days of the character.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Well the dialogue is going to be dubbed over/edited anyways...so maybe they could animate the mouth according to that?

Motion capture might not be a bad idea now that you mention it.

Good points.

Speaking of those, I remember during the S-M3 days when people were worried why his mouh was closed. Venom had his mouth closed a number of times in the early days of the character.

For example:

Venom's first full appearance from Amazing Spider-Man # 300.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Indeed.

 

[Jick]

Why did it annoy you?

Because of Eddie, because of Venom's weak and non-threatening voice, because of his high-pitched screams, because of his actions, because of Eddie's face appearing all the time, because of how the suit was handled, the lack of his dark humor...

 

[roach]

But what exactly prevented them from using that symbol?

I think it was a personal preference...if you wanted to have a black suit heighten the aggressive nature of its host which spider would use. I know the classic spider is what people would have liked but the other spider looks very aggressive,threatening

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I think it was a personal preference...if you wanted to have a black suit heighten the aggressive nature of its host which spider would use. I know the classic spider is what people would have liked but the other spider looks very aggressive,threatening

True, but tbh, they did attempt to sue the wrap around spider on Spidey, it just really did look off which I think is one of the reasons they didn't use it. It's in the making of S-M3 book.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I actually preferred Venom and Spidey not wearing the same costume/same symbol. The movie made Venom look more like a perversion of Spider-Man by distancing their designs, imo.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I actually preferred Venom and Spidey not wearing the same costume/same symbol. The movie made Venom look more like a perversion of Spider-Man by distancing their designs, imo.

I felt the opposite. Changing the black costume's symbol causes Venom's spider symbol to not make sense like it did in the source material. Venom chooses that form because he wants Spider-Man to recognize the symbiote as he beats the living **** out of him.

Now, those symbols are completely different. It's the same problem I had with Mac Gargan's Venom look in the comics. If you're not invoking Spider-Man's black costume, why do you have a spider-symbol at all?

 

[Chris Wallace]

I've long questioned the logic of Venom having a spider symbol anyway. Why wear the symbol/motif of someone you hate? I promise you'll never see me wearing a Justin Bieber T-shirt.
My biggest problem with Venom overall is not his overuse, overexposure and overhype, but rather that I feel his stories have brought out the worst in Spider-Man. The dedicated hero who lived his life by the credo "With great power comes great responsibility" and consistently shows a commitment to taking down the bad guy by any means necessary, was now falling into a pattern of running and hiding, cowardice and compromise. Now this is a guy who kicked Firelord's ass,

won't run from the Hulk,

didn't back down against Juggernaut,

and was even willing to square off against Superman.

And yet when it comes to Venom, he's so terrified he'll relocate, make deals with him or do anything to get him to leave him alone. He's gone from being a superhero to that wimpy kid getting terrorized for his lunch money. And then forming alliances with him that felt more like a marketing gimmick than anything else. He enlists Venom's help tp take down Carnage and then enlists the FF's help to take down Venom; why not just get the FF to help take them both down? And it's especially absurd when all he has to do to beat the guy is strike a match or bang two trash can lids together.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I've long questioned the logic of Venom having a spider symbol anyway. Why wear the symbol/motif of someone you hate? I promise you'll never see me wearing a Justin Bieber T-shirt.
My biggest problem with Venom overall is not his overuse, overexposure and overhype, but rather that I feel his stories have brought out the worst in Spider-Man. The dedicated hero who lived his life by the credo "With great power comes great responsibility" and consistently shows a commitment to taking down the bad guy by any means necessary, was now falling into a pattern of running and hiding, cowardice and compromise. Now this is a guy who kicked Firelord's ass,

won't run from the Hulk,

didn't back down against Juggernaut,

and was even willing to square off against Superman.

And yet when it comes to Venom, he's so terrified he'll relocate, make deals with him or do anything to get him to leave him alone. He's gone from being a superhero to that wimpy kid getting terrorized for his lunch money. And then forming alliances with him that felt more like a marketing gimmick than anything else. He enlists Venom's help tp take down Carnage and then enlists the FF's help to take down Venom; why not just get the FF to help take them both down? And it's especially absurd when all he has to do to beat the guy is strike a match or bang two trash can lids together.

The way I see it, Venom wears the spider-motif to taunt Spider-Man.

Defeating Venom isn't as easy as getting matches or trash can lids. The truth is, he's actually stronger against fire than Spider-Man, fire is simply an effective tool against him.

But on most of your other points, I agree. When I see a Spider-Man vs Venom story, I want to see not only Spider-Man fear Venom, but overcoming that fear as well. It's perfectly fine for Spider-Man to be terrified of Venom, but he must face that fear to resolve the situation. I want to see Spider-Man get prepared to fight Venom, not get plane tickets to run away to Aruba or something. In other words, I want to see Spider-Man fight Venom, not Spider-Chump constantly run away from him.

Having Spider-Man agree to let Venom go free was a pretty dumbass idea. This goes smack dab right against his "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" mantra. Uncle Ben died because Peter looked the other way for the burglar. Why should do so with an obsessive psychopath with superpowers?
Venom becoming an anti-hero/gentleman villain feels like a Flanderized version of the original character to me. It misses the point of his expression of remorse over murdering innocent people. The whole point is that Venom doesn't seek to hurt innocent people in his grudge with Spider-Man, but he has no patience for those who obstruct his goals. If he really gave a ****, he would just non-lethally incapacitate them like Spider-Man does, but he usually just kills them.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Agreeing to let him go free-bad. Agreeing to it more than once-horrendous.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Agreeing to let him go free-bad. Agreeing to it more than once-horrendous.

Same here. It might be about as stupid as the deal with devil to save the life of his ailing aunt who he knows is okay with dying in return for his happy marriage to a beautiful woman who loves him dearly.

 

[Chris Wallace]

It was the only excuse they could come up with for the horrific move of making his identity public. Which ALSO seemed like an extremely out of character move when he'd been so guarded with his secret in the past, reluctant to even share it with those close to him. And when you think about Gwen, the Clone Saga, the ordeal with Harry, the fake parents, the torment he suffered at Venom's hands-all of these things happened because at one time or another one enemy of Spider-Man learned the name of the man behind the mask. Giving it to the rest of the world just sounds incredibly stupid.

 

[Godzilla2014]

It was the only excuse they could come up with for the horrific move of making his identity public. Which ALSO seemed like an extremely out of character move when he'd been so guarded with his secret in the past, reluctant to even share it with those close to him. And when you think about Gwen, the Clone Saga, the ordeal with Harry, the fake parents, the torment he suffered at Venom's hands-all of these things happened because at one time or another one enemy of Spider-Man learned the name of the man behind the mask. Giving it to the rest of the world just sounds incredibly stupid.

Agreed. Going public with his secret ID seems out of character for guy so protective of that secret that he never shared it with the very people that it puts in danger.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Hmm-never told:
Gwen
Aunt May
Betty (the week that they dated)
MJ
Harry
Flash
And yet all of these people were impacted one way or another by him being Spider-Man. The only "people" I can recall him actually telling were his fake parents, which also seemed out of character against that list. But somehow he can see telling the entire universe as a good idea?

 

[Godzilla2014]

Hmm-never told:
Gwen
Aunt May
Betty (the week that they dated)
MJ
Harry
Flash
And yet all of these people were impacted one way or another by him being Spider-Man. The only "people" I can recall him actually telling were his fake parents, which also seemed out of character against that list. But somehow he can see telling the entire universe as a good idea?

Agreed.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Found this on Deviantart. Pretty awesome! Spider symbols wrong, though :\

Nice.

 

[Mary Jane Watson]

I just found this two pictures somewhere in the internet. I think that they were the sketch ideas for first movie. Pretty interesting lol...thank god that they stick with the classic one/original one.