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Discussion in 'Marvel's The Avengers' started by Thread Manager, May 23, 2012.
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]383427[/split]
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]383001[/split]
I put the parts in bold which i agree with the most in your mini-review. They went all out with Black Widow and it seemed that she played up her role to the extreme. In the final battle when Widow's gasping for air and Cap gives her the boast you really get the idea that she's a "human being" who's relying on her physical ability to get around to this and isn't backing down one bit.
Hawkeye was terrific in the scenes that he was in - but i would've liked to see more of him without being under Loki's spell. I guess it works anyway.
A S.H.I.E.L.D. movie would have to be the ultimate spy film ever made, and i don't think we'll be getting that any time soon. Watching the first bit of Avengers with Fury, Hill, Coulson, and Hawkeye in their HQ really felt like a scene from Escape from New York. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the eye-patch, but Fury's like a more experienced Snake Plisskin addressing the world security council and struggling to give the heroes their push. Coulson, I guess thanks to his portrayal as a "spook" in the IM and Thor films, really made me think about the Men In Black or X-Files , whichever. Point being that he comes from a different place in the spy genre -- same with Black Widow, your super spy like Bond or Ethan Hunt? Hawkeye, at least on film, seemed like a Jack Bauer figure. Yes, I know I gave this wayy too much thought. But that's how it felt. S.H.I.E.L.D. really has its own genre niche which wasn't quite realised until The Avengers.
Looking forward to your next review.
Well, like i said, she's more of a female Ethan Hunt or 007 to me. So it works out well. I didn't have any problem with that.
THIS is why Joss Whedon kicks all kinds of ass. I was never really into Buffy or Firefly when they were on but liked Whedon's work on X-Men a lot... after watching this, yeah, i'm going to school myself on Joss
What I loved the most about those scenes (esp the post-credit one) is how it's very, very much a shot lifted from the opening of Infinity Gauntlet #1
I'll take your word for it as far as the super spy movies are concerned. Can't say I've ever seen Escape From New York, but you seem to know what you're talking about. I would definitely agree with you on BW. In some ways, I think she and Hawkeye had the ability to out-do the superheroes only by virtue of their having more experience in the field than some of the team. They know their capabilities and limitations perfectly well and that's what allows them to perform at their peak. I do think that with those two a SHIELD movie would be a pretty neat venture. I definitely want to see the super-spy side of BW and Fury in the next go-around.
Part 2 of my review was back a few pages in the last thread. Here's a link for it:
Very good review there, i'll comment on it in a few steps:
I think what I loved best about Cap is also what I loved best about TA in general: the moment when the team gets their band together and takes the battle to the Chitauri. Cap coming together and really becoming a natural leader was perhaps the best way to see him realised on screen. Evans' portrayal is solid, and in the opening scene where he's punching his bag you really get a strong echo to the guy who grew up in Brooklyn back in his own movie. What I agree with you more here is regarding the costume: yes! More military, less secret agent.
There was always that potential, and yeah it was great that they didn't over-do with Stark. Everyone's talking abotu how the Hulk, Captain america, and The black widow got their natural evolution with TA, but i think RDJ and Whedon really managed to nail Tony Stark with this one: he's not short on his quips and he's not short on his drive towards a more heroic role. What i liked the most was how Stark's otherwise arrogant and garrulous demeanour is shown to be a sort-of mask that he dons when he's confronting less pleasing situations: case in point being Loki, and the moment in the helicarrier when he leans against Cap. His a man of wit and fast thinking, and it was really well written in the first two IM films, but with TA you get to see the part that this billionaire genius is also the superhero he claims to be. That's an evolution in his character, something that should've been made explicit in IM2. I'd give RDJ a 9/10
The only problem I had was this distinct impression that he was constantly one-upping Cap in every scene. But I'll let that go this time
Here's the thing about Thor and Loki -- yes, they were given a decent focus and all, and Loki was certainly a fitting villain -- his exchanges with his brother goes back to their own film so profoundly that I still think my favourite dialogue is between these two in the forest. Loved Thor's costume, Hemsworth, like RDJ, Sam L. Jackson, Evans and Ruffalo, really has owned the role. But what I didn't like about Loki is that he's sort of a prankster in the latter-half of the film, and his ultimate reliance on the Chitauri really weakened his threat-level. Yes, I agree, the climax coudl've done a better job by giving Loki another round -- and I was hoping Thor would be the one to put him down.
Loki was a conceptually perfect villain under Whedon's command, but I have to say that his megalomania (again, while perfect for the first ever sueprhero crossover) nevertheless did leave a little to be desired from hiddleson's performance. He really embraced his role as a comicbook villain. I guess that's what they were going for anyway, but yeah. I preferred Loki in Thor than I prefer him here. There isn't that tormented shade of grey anymore. Loki, working on his own and fighting for godhood, really contrasts with each of hte individual avengers and would've been a better foe if he was shown to be someone who could not be satisfied with his own self, with his own isolation--that he fails to overcome it like the members of the Avengers do.
Personally, i wouldn't want WHedon to write or direct Thor 2. Yes, it's obvious that he should be around as a strong consultant on the script (and Branagh a strong consultant during direction, like Bryan Singer) but he just doesn't seem to have the proper love for the Asgardians.
Completely agree on this one! Ruffalo delivered a performance that most of us didn't think was possible... and you get the impression that Wehdon's direction and the script itself was highly conscious about the negativity surrounding him. It worked out well in that Banner became the one character who was not counted on for his heroism and yet carried that heroism perhaps better than any of his pals. What I loved the most was how HUlk and Banner are really equated into a single being here, despite his own convictions of them being separate entities. I loved the Hulk, though comic-booky as he was, he felt like the missing link in the team that really glued them together: especially for Stark & Rogers, they both have a lot of respect for him from the beginning and seems to be the middle ground between the two. But one thing that really makes this Hulk better than the Norton's? I disagree with you there -- it isn't that he's more of a gorilla and rage/monster, it's that he's more in control that makes him heroic. This Hulk is aware of everything and everyone around him, the previous incarnations of the character, while giving us a more emotional creature, was not as proactive as this Hulk (but rather reactionary to the forces around him). For the life of me, I cannot picture Norton's Hulk responding to Captain America's command to "Smash" the way Ruffalo's Hulk did. In a way, it goes back to Whedon's entire approach to superheroes if you think about it: Norton's Hulk was dark and gritty and very much the natural monster that exists in us and is lurking outside in the unknown parts of the world; Whedon's Hulk is the creature from the comic-books.
okay i'll answer this in parts since it's a big one Yeah i agree, it's pretty much a comic book movie and NOT about the complexity of plot, i think we all agree that it works best that way. But I have to disagree with some of your points:
I think it's perfect that they didn't steep too much into Asgardian history this time around--it would've made it feel like a THOR sequel instead. For the "dark magic" with which Thor comes back, I think they have a good idea on how to address that in the Thor sequel itself. I loved that the thunderer simply arrives on the scene, as though he's an emissary and here to put things in order for a problem that's caused by him. Would've loved to see Thor feel a bit more responsible for what Loki's doign, but i guess that is still implied.
Well, think of it in this way: It's New York City, the Marvel Universe's equivalent of the world in a microcosm (and heck it's not that far a stretch from the real NYC). I looked at the "infestation/invasion" like it was a very devastating threat, but one that was controlled by the Avengers and this team of "remarkable individuals." It really shows that the superheroes succeeded in containing the invasion the way they did, instead of asking for a full-on war. It also made the nuclear-threat that the World Security Council gives a credible menace!
Now this i agree with fully. We needed to WRAP UP with the Tesseract and its surrounding mystery in this film.
Nahh... this IS the Marvel Universe. That's everyone down in NYC saving the world (well almost everyone). The entire build up was for that last climactic alien-battle, where every superhero in Marvel's repository gets highlighted. Given the fact that these heroes were part of the film-continuity, i'd have been offended if they dropped in someone else like the X-Men or Spidey like a deus ex machina or something (though... in retrospect, Hugh Jackman bad-mouthing along with RDJ and the rest in the Helicarrier? Hmmmmm)
Great review on your part too mate! Enjoyed reading and responding to that
Oh, and the score really wasn't great. Just saying.
Avengers gets an 8/10 from me.
PS: I loved the part where Spider-Man used his heat vision to stop Voldermort from getting the Matrix of Leadership, which stopped him from unleashing the Kraken on Gotham City.
Both of you really good reviews! enjoyed reading both of them fully. going to see it for a 3rd and last time with the mother. should be fun. t:
"Sorry people. Guess you're not gonna get to see my party trick after all..."
One thing I like is how after all of the criticism that Avengers was automatically shallow because it wasn't going to "tap into the zeitgeist," it totally did.
Oh man. I've missed the "tap into the zeitgeist" talk.
I suspect that "tap the zeitgeist" was code speak for "be a grim, gritty, dark introspective drama of deconstruction."
Sorry guys I'm lost, but what is "tap the zeitgeist"?
'tap the zeitgeist' is a newspaper cartoon character from Germany. Tap is a young tapdancing ghost only on earth for a short period of time....
And if that's not true, SOMEBODY should draw it.
Catch me up guys, I'm back! Any news on IM3, Thor 2 and CA 2? Please Winter Soldier?
I've seen the movie 4 times now. Someone at work told me that I needed an Avengers intervention.
I'm gonna go see it a forth, and probably final time, this weekend.
I think i'm gonna find a different movie theater so that it'll feel like i'm seeing it for the first time!
3rd time...I think it may be my last
I was thinking about going again last week but I think ill wait for the blu ray. I've only seen it 3 times which ties the record for most films i've seen at the theater with TDK and Avatar.
I only saw TA two times. I'd love to see more of it, but when you have a family watching movies in theatre becomes a luxury, and I can't afford too many of it. Now I just hope September will arrive soon so I can get the DVD and/or Blu-ray and watch it multiple times.
I saw BB about 14 times in the theater, but the majority of my viewings were when it hit the $1 theater. But I did see it 3 times in a regular theater, and once in IMAX.
14 times? Holy s*** bro well done! That's commitment.
Anyone think that the Red Skull should team up with Thanos for the next Avengers? Cause i think we haven't seen the last of Red Skull.
I hope we see him again, cause I loved him in Cap.
Why would Thanos team up with the Red Skull, though? That's kind of like Godzilla teaming up with a tarantula.
I suppose Thanos could track down the Red Skull and arrange for him to be sent back to Earth, as an agent provocateur to test the Avengers mettle. . .
I think the only way we see Red skull again is in flashbacks. Cap 2 will be all about the new hydra. They should introduce Sin.
I don't want it. Need something fresh.