Discussion in 'Marvel's The Avengers' started by Thread Manager, May 7, 2012.
IM does call Hawkeye 'Legolas' (archer from LOTR) before he takes off with him.
I've seen the movie three times and I still hadn't come close to noticing this.
Rainbows???!!! Take off the 3d glasses homeboy! Lol just kidding
If it was just a reflection effect from the sun or whatever I don't know, but I definitely saw it this time around.
Kel!! Nice to see you again! t:
HEY, had a few days off the computer WORKING, and a few days on for play....
Once again I have off time at work, so here goes!
Man am I happy with Cap. His portrayal in this film is miles above TFA. I was so glad to see him take a commanding presence and that the rest of the team did look to him as a leader near the end. I still want to see him come out of the soldier role and become more of the guy in charge, but I can see him evolving very naturally into that role through the course of the next couple of films. His dialogue was exactly what I would expect Cap to sound like and Evans made him very believable.
Still not crazy about the suit. At all. I hoped it would look better in motion, but it still looks way too awkward. I was surprised that they shot so much of him from behind since the back of his suit is barren. The shield even looked a little too fake at times, nothing like how it looked in TFA. I'm hoping for a better interpretation of the suit in Cap 2. They definitely need to lose the cowl and break up the blue. Adding a brown utility belt would help that, and make it look a little more military and less secret agent.
Overall I give Cap an 8/10.
The thing that suprised me most about IM in this film, is that he wasn't given as much screen time as I thought he was going to get. In no way was this a bad thing, because he was very fairly showcased. Many would expect that IM would take front and center seeing as how he's the MCU love-child, but I'm glad that he fit well into the ensemble and didn't stand out like a sore thumb. The best example I can think of from the film, was during the Hellicarrier crisis scene. It would have been very easy to show IM kicking butt all over the place, but instead he was tasked with fixing a broken engine while BW, Hulk, Thor, Fury, Hawkeye and the gang had their fun. Of course it made the most sense that Tony would by the one to fix the ship, but I think that it was smart writing that he not be the shining star of that scene and really give room for the rest of the cast to show what they've got.
RDJ has always been a big powerhouse on screen and I was really pleased to see him blend so well with the rest of the cast and really step back and let the other performances shine. Also, his chemistry with Banner was pretty fun to watch. Very glad to see that Avengers didn't turn into Iron Man and his Amazing Friends.
IM gets another 8/10.
Thor and Loki
I'll just group these guys together since they're family.
Easily the coolest pair in this film. Chris and Tom definitely brought their A-game and the dialogue they had to work with was just fantastic. Thor had such great screen presence this time around and his look was way better than in Thor. Just those subtle changes with the hair and going sleeveless really made a big difference. He and Loki's scene together in the forest was very good and very well written. I seriously wish Whedon was writing Thor 2 because he just did it right. I will argue that Thor didn't have as much screen time as I would have like him to have. I would have like to have seen he and Loki have a much more defining battle than what was seen, but what he did get was really good.
Loki couldn't have been better. Maybe he could have, but he was definitely awesome. His new costume definitely gave him a more intimidating presence and his motivation was very clear. I still think he could have been slightly more mischievous, but he was brutal where it counted and he got under everyone's skin, which was good thing. I was grinning from ear to ear during his scene with BW. Easily the greatest moment in the entire film for me. It was so well written and executed, and exactly how I would expect Loki to react to mortals. Honestly, if you have to go home and look up some of the words Loki was using to get under BW's skin, you know you have some well written dialogue. Especially in a CBM.
I did have one big gripe about Loki that I'm still not really over. Whereas his scene with Hulk got the crowd roaring, I think it was a bad move to turn him into a punchline and almost immediately de-power him by having him tossed around like a rag doll. You could still use the scene, sure, but I wouldn't have chosen to leave him laying in a small crater in stunned silence like a cartoon character, I would have had him writhing in pain and clenching his teeth in rage. He was too effective of a villain up to that point to have him become a punchline, and ultimately I think it was a bad move. Was it enjoyable? Of course, no one would really deny that. Was it the right move? I would definitely say it wasn't.
On top of that, I really think Loki should have had one more trick up his sleeve that would have caused the whole team to have to combine against him. If there was anything that I could say was lacking from the invasion scene, it would be that Loki went down too easily. I think he should have fallen at the hands of his brother, not Hulk's. I think that after IM closed the portal and the rest of team thought they had won, Loki should have busted some kind of contingency plan, perhaps trying to harness whatever power he could muster from the Tesseract and trying to turn it against the team. Instead he just kind of turned himself in. I really did think that was a bit of a downer. By no means did it kill the film for me, but I think I would have like it much more had that been the case.
All in all, Thor and Loki get a solid 9/10. Awesome portrayal.
Bravo Mark Ruffalo! Did I love Edward Norton as Banner? Of course, though he was great and I'm still curious to see how he could have meshed with this ensemble. But Ruffalo portrayed a great Banner and one that I hope sticks around for a while. I think he has finally broken the Hulk movie curse. I really appreciated how the character was written as a natural evolution from what was established in TIH. When Banner tells the team that he put a bullet in his mouth and the other guy spat it back out, I was very pleased to say the least. I was half expecting Marvel to up and ignore the events and characterization present in TIH all together, but the fact that Ruffalo's Banner was a natural evolution from Norton's Banner at the end of TIH is very praiseworthy and a great move overall. Ruffalo is a very smart actor and his scene with BW in India ranked among one of my favorites in the film. It was a great introduction to his character and Ruffalo gave a very convincing performance of a somewhat world-weary, yet optimistic man living with a huge problem. I enjoyed how he embraced the Hulk to a degree, yet still understood how much of a threat he was and why he wanted to remain in control. His way of calling Hulk "the other guy" was a good way of showing how he still resented him to a degree. Banner is a very reluctant hero in this film, and I think that fit in well with a group of power houses.
Now as far as the Hulk himself is concerned, I'm a bit conflicted. I'll admit that Ruffalo brought a great Bruce Banner to the table, but I'll still stand by the fact that I think TIH had a better Hulk. I may not make too many friends with this one, but this is what I mean:
The Hulk in TIH came across as a something of a Hyper Human/Rage Monster. That seems very general and obvious when describing the Hulk, but I use that description because Hulk in TA was more of a Hyper Gorilla/Rage Monster/Comic Relief, type thing. He looked absolutely stunning, no doubt about it. He had excellent moments on screen, but the portrayal was very scattered. At times he came across as more intelligent, like in the "puny god" scene, and other times he quite literally acted like a gorilla, i.e. hunching over IM and shouting at him to wake him up.
In TIH, the Hulk was a creature that was still coming into his own, but he was still more human that TA Hulk. The things in TIH that helped drive that home was stuff like the scene where he saves Betty in Virginia and the cave scene during the storm. There was something going on with the Hulk in those scenes that showed some kind of being trying to understand the world and hold on to what it understood. It was still a creature of rage, but it was also human. The fact that he said a few lines such as "leave me alone" "Betty" and "Hulk smash" gave small glimpses into some kind of intelligence bleeding through the cracks.
And if I may play devil's advocate for minute: Anyone notice how so many here were pining for Hulk to speak in this film, yet in TIH he had more lines? Did the fact that Hulk only had one line deter any of you at all? I for one was very happy with the fact that we didn't have a completely literate Hulk, but I will admit I was hoping for a "Hulk strongest there is" line somewhere in the mix.
For me, the Hulk in TA is walking a fine line between very believable and very cartoony. Probably his best moment was when Banner admits he's always angry and the Hulk takes over and smashes the Leviathan. But from there all we see is a Hulk gleefully destroying every alien in his path and at times acting like a giant monkey. I think ultimately, the characterization of Hulk in TA took two steps forward and one step back, but again, this did not kill anything for me. He was still very enjoyable to watch and I appreciated very much what Ruffalo brought to the table.
And I will admit, Hulk punching Thor off-screen = pure gold.
Banner gets a solid 10/10 and I'll give Hulk an 8/10.
The Movie as a Whole
This was very much a comic book movie. It progressed much like a comic book and probably captured the best moments of comics as a whole on the big screen. Each character introduction played out just like it would in a comic and I thought that it translated very well. The world that Whedon created here felt very believable and lived in, but at the still time removed and fantastical. It struck a good balance with what's real and what's just plain fun.
The story itself I don't think is really much to speak of, but this film is more about the ensemble than it is the story. The whole idea behind this film is what happens when these larger-than-life heroes collide? This was the focus and I think that deviating from that at all would have been a mistake. There were definitely things I would have like to see expanded upon that I think would have helped. Things like:
- How exactly did Thor get back to Earth? I think it was a mistake that Loki mentions in passing, "how much dark magic did the All-Father conjure to bring you here?" We should have seen it happen. My guess is that it would have been difficult production-wise to build an Asgard set and get some of the Thor actors on board to do such a scene. But given how definite the ending to Thor was with the Bifrost Bridge being broken, it should have been expanded upon.
- The Chuitari needed more backstory. I loved how the filmed opened with them, but I wasn't thrilled learning nothing about them. All that's perceived about them is that they serve Thanos and apparently they're cousins to the droids in Phantom Menace. I loved the scene with Loki and Thanos' herald in that spacey-dream sequence, and I wished we had just a little more of that. At the end of the day, the Chuitari felt more like an infestation rather than in invasion to me. Especially considering the fact that their fight was kept in Manhattan and didn't really go anywhere else. When I think invasion I think global, not isolated.
-I was hoping that the Tesseract would be more than a glorified Macguffin in this movie. I would have like to learn more about where its power comes from and what more it can do other than create portals and makes weapons. Who made it? What exactly was it supposed to do? It's obvious that it seems to hail from Asgardian origin, but a little more depth into why this thing is so dangerous would have been nice. Again, if Loki knew it was so powerful why didn't he make a break for it when he was beaten? It could have been a game changer of some kind.
-Lastly, where was the rest of the Marvel Universe? I was very surprised that very little was hinted at with the rest of the MCU other than the Thanos teaser. I felt that an event like an alien invasion was such a big thing, wouldn't other heroes or super-powered human be alluded to in some fashion? Wouldn't SHIELD know of a few more powered individuals? Out of all the MCU films in which it would be appropriate to expand on other tie-ins I would think that this would be the one. Especially considering the events that were taking place. It didn't detract from the experience, but it's definitely curious that Marvel would choose not to hint at future characters in this kind of a power-house film.
But I cannot argue that Joss Whedon is the man. What a great script and what great direction for this film. Great characterization and a great ensemble cast. I won't say it's necessary to have a complete comic book geek direct these kind of films, but I think Whedon proves that it doesn't hurt. He proved that this stuff really does work and the numbers don't lie. Here's hoping he returns for the sequel and please, PLEASE, Alan Taylor, take some tips from this man on writing Thor and Loki. Please. I'll make you a cake. Thanks.
Oh, and the score really wasn't great. Just saying.
Avengers gets an 8/10 from me.
PS: I loved the part where Spider-Man used his heat vision to stop Voldermort from getting the Matrix of Leadership, which stopped him from unleashing the Kraken on Gotham City.
Sorry for the typos in the review, but I really don't feel like going back and fixing them. Too much.
Just came back from a 3rd viewing.
Making out with the credits and the Avengers theme in the background, is priceless.
I was really encouraged with what I heard prior to seeing TA. And the Hulk certainly was a highlight. He looked great.
But I'm more than tired of the mute Hulk. It's getting silly how the guy gets no character development or a chance to show a personality. Try this with a solo film and I predict another mediocre box office performance. You can get away with it when the Hulk is surrounded by interesting characters...heck it might be better when you need to give character development to so many. But when the whole movie is about Banner the audience is going to look at their watches a lot and wonder why the Hulk functions as a fireworks display. People will wonder why the Hulk is not as cool in his solo film but I won't.
I say don't bother with solo films for the Hulk. Keep him confined to Avengers movies where him being a boring mute with no personality or motivation doesn't ruin the movie.
The tesseract is just a power source, that's really all it is. Tony created it in IM2, I just don't think it's been expanded on yet. That's why Loki's staff had no effect on Tony. The tesseract is a battery in the MCU.
But this has been my whole point from the start. Why does the Hulk being able to speak full sentences constitute his character being developed? Some of the biggest emotion you can convey in a performance is by emoting and saying absolutely nothing at all. The Hulk in TIH talked more, emoted more and acted with more personality that what I saw with TA Hulk. Banner was more of the central focus in this film, which was great and I don't think anyone's arguing that. But the Hulk was very much a secret weapon and at times a plot device, which from the very get-go is kind of what I expected to see him as in this film. He was not however a plot device in his own film, but a very neat character who showed a lot of personality.
I really haven't seen anyone on the board say anything negative about the Hulk in TA, even after pining for so long for a talking Hulk. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing or calling them out or anything. If you liked him then you liked him, and heck, I liked him too. But could he have been better? I certainly think so. But I disagree that you need him to talk in order to so, and I think since many are silent on that issue, it confirms how I've felt about that.
I've also said before that I'm ok with hearing him talk in the future, but I'm glad that Marvel is having him ease into that rather than just bust him out saying full sentences, especially since no one has seen him do that yet. It needs to be gradual, because if Hulk just started talking like normal in the movie I guarantee you he would have been met with a much different response.
I went with one of my friends, but I fondly remember making out (and more) during the end credits for THOR. t:
What? Tony never created the Tesseract? He created a new element that has nothing to do with the Tesseract.
And Loki's sceptre had an effect on everybody in that room.
I disagree. The element and the cube are connected.
If they are why didn't they make that connection in the film? The Tesseract was pumping out small amounts of gamma radiation and they were trying to pick up the traces by scanning the planet. Well, if they were similar then surely they would have made the connection to the Arc Reactor.
I think they are because Howard Stark studied the cube when he made the arc reactor, and hypothesized the new element. Stark just didn't get to the stage where the energy signature was the same as the Tesseract's. Hence no gamma output.
Loki was unable to mind control Tony because the arc reactor and the tesseract are alike. It's kinda obvious, same color, same reaction, same purpose.
After Iron Man, Thor and Cap battle, how and when do they catch Loki? The next scene is Loki arrested.
I know Loki wanted to be there, but did I miss something? (I saw the movie 3 times)
According the art book yes it confirms that Stark's arc-reactor is based off the cube energy much like zola used to make HYDRA weapons for the Red Skull.
Where do you get that Tony couldn't be controlled? He was definitely controlled (or at least affected) while on board the Hellicarrier.
At the end when Loki touches Tony on the chest with the staff
Loki tried to directly mind-control Tony the same way he did Hawkeye and Selvig during their confrontation at Stark Tower. He tapped his staff against Tony's chest, like he did with the others, only to have it clink harmlessly against the arc reactor. Loki said, "This usually works...." Tony replied: "Performance issues. Happens to everyone. One out of five--" At which point Loki lost it and defenestrated the meddlesome Stark.
Surely you didn't miss that? Loki also tried to mind control Captain America in Germany by touching the staff to the back of Cap's neck and demanding that he kneel. Cap was still for a few seconds, then he said, "Not today!" In an interview Tom Hiddleston said that Captain America was a special case who could resist Loki's control. In Tony's case, it was the fact that Loki's staff contacted the arc reactor and not his flesh that made it ineffective.
The whole "performance" joke.