The Dark Knight Rises The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 1

[BatLobster]

C. Confronted with this psycho with a bomb, wouldn't people be more inclined than ever to turn towards authority? At that point, if I was in Gotham I would be like 'Dear God, please bring Jim Gordon back and give him all the power of a Fuhrer! As long as he kills this crazy with the fusion bomb! Civil rights, Schmivil rights!'

And who exactly did the people of Gotham have to turn to? The film even makes a point to show Gordon wanting to get in front of a camera, but Blake won't let him since he knows Bane would have him killed first chance he got.

 

[roach]

And then he leaves it assembled...

Nevermind that the last "high tech machine" we're shown he has was used to almost destroy Gotham.

He realizes it can be a weapon...and he leaves it assembled.

It boggles the mind.

The reactor would have provided Free cheap energy...the doctor character modified it and made it into a bomb

It was left in a secure location known only to Bruce and Lucius.

Why sneak a nuke into the city when you can just modify a reactor already inside to blow?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I get what you're saying but I still disagree. Bruce Wayne being Batman is the most obvious conclusion given the citizens of Gotham... unless Bruce is a total playboy jerk, which he has built himself up to be

- the hotel pool party
- burning down his house in a drunken rage
- running away like a coward at his own party into his safe-room
- taking the entire cast of the ballet out to a party on international waters

A young boy, a kindred spirit in that they share the same tragedy, was able to see through the Mask of Bruce Wayne. IMHO it shows that Blake is more intelligent and inquisitive than other people, which does a lot to build him up as Batman's successor.

The alternative of batman telling him or him accidentally finding proof would have felt more of a cop out to me.

As I said, I see where you're coming from but I disagree with the cop-out statement.

But that's not how he explained it to us..... He explained it by saying he could tell by being an orphan too.... And in the process made Gordon look like an incompetent idiot

 

[BatLobster]

The microwave emitter was only ever a military tool, and it was developed by Wayne Tech. before he took control of the company.

This is a totally different ballgame being a "save the world" kind of machine. Wayne keeping it underground in a spot where it could be immediately flooded seems to speak very much to his internal struggle in the 8 year gap. Wanting to be the philanthropist that Alfred and Miranda encourage him to be, but still having that paranoia and mistrust of people.

I liked it. I'm loving all the criticism this movie gets, because it keeps me thinking about the movie. And the more I think about these things, the more I actually like it and appreciate the story decisions that were made.

 

[The Guard]

The reactor would have provided Free cheap energy...the doctor character modified it and made it into a bomb

It was left in a secure location known only to Bruce and Lucius.

Why sneak a nuke into the city when you can just modify a reactor already inside to blow?

I wasn't the one who advocated sneaking a nuke into the city.

I'm saying why even keep the fusion reactor assembled once you recognize its threat potential?

If you're not going to use it, why keep it there at all?

Why build a damn chamber you can flood when you're not going to use it at all because of the danger?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

While we have had hints that the franchise is 100% done aside from a small rumbling of an Anne hathoway catwoman movie..., anyone else get the feeling that there could be a chance that Blake/Robin was tacked on just so wb could possibly continue the franchise and possibly even sync it up with there justice league film? Like the rumor that wonderwoman may have a cameo or passing reference in man of steel? it would explain alot unfortunately

 

[the_monk]

The microwave emitter was only ever a military tool, and it was developed by Wayne Tech. before he took control of the company.

This is a totally different ballgame being a "save the world" kind of machine. QUOTE]

I should have been clearer earlier, when I mentioned the devices in BB and TDKR that are designed to improve lives, only to be manipulated by terrorists. In BB, I was referring to the Wayne Corp. tram, not the microwave emitter.

 

[GregComicFan]

I dont get how everyone is picking TKDR apart saying that TDK was better, but....

-how does batman/bruce just catches plane rides with smugglers and no
one questions it?

-how the ferry scene was not only terrible in itself, but the biggest,
baddest criminal on the boat basically saves everyone? really?

-how he survives the fall at the party with rachel?

-how bad the batman dialogue was at the end with the joker.

I thought TDKR was really good... not as good as TDK... but definitely not a "bomb of a third film in the trilogy".... however, I also think people are nit-picking TDKR way more than they did when TDK was released. TDK had a ton of plot holes as well, if you watch it analytically and pick it apart to death...

Joker says he has no plans... but his plans were all incredibly coincidental and contrived... and it was laughable (pun intended) that they all worked out.

Example: So Harvey Dent says he's Batman and is arrested. While being transported by GCPD, Joker attacks. Joker tries to destroy the convoy escorting Dent. Batman shows up. Joker tries to get Batman to kill him; Batman doesn't (how fortunate for Joker's future plans). Joker gets caught/arrested. Joker is put into prison cell at the exact same time as a fat guy with a "cell phone bomb" surgically implanted in his chest is placed in the cell (which Joker apparently rigged himself - when? we don't know). Batman interrogates Joker. Joker says some things about kidnapping Dent/Rachel (another arrangement the Joker engineers off-screen and oh-so conveniently) that have Gordon, Batman, and most cops rush out of the building. Joker then says some things to a old-timer cop that pisses him off and causes him to try to beat up the Joker. Joker gets the upper hand (how lucky for the Joker!), demands a "phone call", gets a cell phone from another cop, blows up the police station... AND THIS WAS ALL PART OF HIS PLAN IN ORDER TO GET TO LAU WHO IS LOCKED UP AT THE POLICE STATION...!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Okay. So in TDKR I also found Batman escaping the pit and reappearing in Gotham so quickly to be jarring... (how did he get back to Gotham so quickly? Can Batman teleport across the globe?)... but TDK is definitely not "perfect" or "better" when it comes to whacky mind-boggling contrivances...

and both movies are great.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't recall any devices in bb being used to better human lives ... The only devices that come to mind are all military ones... From the tumbler to the bat suit to the instant water evaporator

 

[the_monk]

I don't recall any devices in bb being used to better human lives ... The only devices that come ti mind are all military ones... From the tumbler ti the bat suit to the instant water evaporator

The tram is what I was referring to.

 

[LostSon88]

I wasn't the one who advocated sneaking a nuke into the city.

I'm saying why even keep the fusion reactor assembled once you recognize its threat potential?

If you're not going to use it, why keep it there at all?

Why build a damn chamber you can flood when you're not going to use it at all because of the danger?

-No one knew it existed outside of Bruce and Lucius.

-It had a "fail safe" with the flood.

-Considering the Dr. Pavel was the only one who knew how to convert and disable the reactor, its reasonable to assume only a handful of people in the WORLD would even know how to modify it into a nuclear weapon.

-Again, it had another fail safe in that it couldn't be activated without the fingerprints of specific people i.e. board members.

-As mentioned in the film, the device only goes nuclear when extracted from its core.

In terms of why keep it? Simple. They are on the cusp of discovering the key to free energy, they're not going to scrap it because of the potential flaw. They're going to try and figure out a solution.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The tram is what I was referring to.

Oh....

Just another sad reminder of what was missing in nolan sequel movies... I really loathe how we got a different gotham in each movie

 

[the_monk]

Oh....

Just another sad reminder of what was missing in nolan sequel movies... I really loathe how we got a different gotham in each movie

To be fair, a good portion of the tram was destroyed in BB. It's possible it was never rebuilt, though I'm not sure why that would be.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

To be fair, a good portion of the tram was destroyed in BB. It's possible it was never rebuilt, though I'm not sure why that would be.

No it wasn't... Just the straight line section that was right before you get to Wayne enterprises

 

[LostSon88]

Its an old relic, worn down and dilapidating much like the city was at the time…I simply assumed that Gotham decided to take the entire system down following the events of Batman Begins.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Its an old relic, worn down and dilapidating much like the city was at the time…I simply assumed that Gotham decided to take the entire system down following the events of Batman Begins.

Except for the fact the city was just as crime ridden and in theory as dilapidated in dk but... It looks pretty squeaky clean and prestine
.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think the biggest missed opportunity in this franchise is that there were truly no ramifications for what happened in the narrows and the arkham jail break... Which we all thought at the time was the origin story for many of his future villains.... But none were. I guess we can assume maybe joker was? But id assume face recognition software would have picked him up...

 

[the_monk]

Except for the fact the city was just as crime ridden and in theory as dilapidated in dk but... It looks pretty squeaky clean and prestine
.

I don't know about that. They did film in Chicago. Chicago has a pretty high murder rate.

I do wish they'd found a way to bring Arkham and the Narrows back, but I won't complain. I don't mind the look of the city evolving. It keeps things fresh, and the look is really tailored to the style of each movie.

BB is more of a graphic novel, so we get more soundstages. TDK is a mobster/crime thriller, so we get Chicago. TDKR is inspired somewhat by terrorism and the financial crisis, so we get Manhattan. Makes sense to me.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't know about that. They did film in Chicago. Chicago has a pretty high murder rate.

I do wish they'd found a way to bring Arkham and the Narrows back, but I won't complain. I don't mind the look of the city evolving. It keeps things fresh, and the look is really tailored to the style of each movie.

BB is more of a graphic novel, so we get more soundstages. TDK is a mobster/crime thriller, so we get Chicago. TDKR is inspired somewhat by terrorism and the financial crisis, so we get Manhattan. Makes sense to me.

Chicago looked squeaky clean compared to bb 's gotham.... And no city cleans up that fast.... Not even new York cleaned up that fast (in the time between bb and dk)

 

[TheVileOne]

Finally saw the whole movie in IMAX. It's a good movie and well made but it's got a lot of problems for me structurally. There are way too many convenient plot devices.

Spoiler

-I couldn't wrap my head around a nuclear reactor being turned into a cold fusion reactor and how that's supposed to work.

-Bruce Wayne retiring as Batman for 8 years was an idea I hated and couldn't fathom but the movie did it anyway. So he rebuilds Wayne Manor. Makes a new and improved Batcave and he just doesn't use any of it for 8 years? Terrible. Batman's war wasn't just on organized crime it was on crime period. I think it would've been much more interesting if Wayne simply withdrew himself even more into Batman without Rachel and maybe he became overzealous and was starting to become a monster. I don't know that's just an idea. I recall a sequence in Kingdom Come where an elderly Bruce Wayne still as Batman had basically taken complete control of Gotham with all sorts of surveillance drones and robots in order to keep it "safe." In Batman Beyond, Batman/Bruce Wayne going into exile made sense. He was no longer in control of Wayne Enterprises after it merged with Powers. He got so old and run down as Batman he was forced into picking up a gun and pointing at a criminal just to save his own skin. His new suit gave him a heart attack but the straw that broke the camel's back was becoming so weak and desperate he picked up a gun to protect himself. That was something I could buy into. In these movies I saw that Bruce saw that Rachel was his way out of being Batman. But without Rachel he had nothing else but to remain Batman and I just can't buy into him putting it away for eight years because of a Harvey Dent act.

-Writing for Alfred was terrible and I couldn't buy any of it. Alfred would NEVER leave Bruce. Never. Terrible writing. It just seemed like a convenient way to get Alfred out of Gotham City and out of the story. I know Caine is getting older and maybe he needed less to do for a movie like this but taking Alfred out of the picture for acts two and three out of convenience was lame and horrible. Alfred would never have done that and it just seemed to be a stupid way of showing even Bruce losing all his wealth and comforts.

-Where the hell did Bruce Wayne get the clean slate from? Oh and the Batwing is all nice safe and sound from a city controlled by Bane with nothing but a tarp to cover it up on top of a building?

-IMAX looked nice and all but it exposes how fake and cheap all the gun shots look. The guns have no spark, no smoke from the barrels. I think editing action, shootouts, and fight sequences is probably one of Nolan's weakest areas. Like that action bit with Batman being lit up in the tunnel by the gun flashes as he moves closer and closer.

-Making John Blake "Robin" was ****ing ******ed. Oh his real full legal name is ROBIN. Seriously, wtf. If you are going to do that it would've been the perfect way to throw in Dick Grayson or Richard Grayson. Or **** even Tim Drake. Blake's backstory in the movie was basically Jason Todd's. Dini and Timm basically ret-conned that into Tim Drake's background for TNBA. So you had the perfect opportunity to say Tim Drake or Dick Grayson which honestly I think could've been pretty close to perfect. But you can tell in many ways that Nolan doesn't truly get or love these characters or at least doesn't like Robin which he admitted. It felt like Nolan was trying to be clever and throw some random reference to fans but it was lame. Just like Raimi doesn't really like or get Venom and doesn't do simple things like have Venom refer to himself and Eddie Brock as "we" or say "We are Venom."

-So Batman is exonerated at the end at last. And yet even though Batman is absolved and the truth of Harvey Dent comes to light umm . . . Harvey Dent act? Commissioner Gordon committing fraud? No one cares about that. I assume we are just to accept that Gordon is given a pardon for his role in helping to save the city but after all that setup and then just brushing it aside at the end, again don't buy it. Nolan and Goyer basically wrote themselves into a corner with the last movie and this one as I feared.

-For as complex as Bane's plan was, he and Talia are dumber than Bond villains. They trap all of Gotham police to KEEP THEM ALIVE! Yes, let's conveniently trap just about every cop in Gotham and feed them and give them water for several months. Not only that, they come out like they've been underground for two days not five months.

Overall I still found Avengers to be the structurally superior and overall more satisfying movie. It was a good movie and it looked nice and I liked seeing a lot of actors I liked watching on TV make it into a big movie like this such as Torchwood's Owen Harper as Daggett's stooge and Blue Blood's Will Estes during the first Batman chase scene.

 

[marvelrobbins]

After seeing the film today I can officially register my thoughts.I think It
Is least sastisfying film of the trilogy.Sometimes giving a director too much
control Is bad Idea.After defentinve Origin In Begins and one of top comic book films ever In The Dark Knight It would have been better to resolve where
Batman ended up and leaave door open for a new team to take over instead
of what happens In Rises.

Christin bale gives strong performance and Is clear star of film.He has given
us the defintive Bruce Wayne.

Michael Caine gives another great performance as Alfred.

Gary Oldman has given us the Defentive Gordon apart from the Comics

Anne hathaway Is great as Catwoman.Now I won't go as far as saying she blows away Michelle Pfeiffer's catwoman.I remain big fan of Tim Burton's
batman films especilly Batman Returns.

Tom hardy Is very good as bane.While Bane was slighty reimaged(I can still see traces of comic babe) I say after The Joker the best villain In trilogy.

I like Marion Cotillard.But Nolan made huge mistake here.He should have given her more screentime Earlier In film.Her reveal would have caused more Impact that way.To have Talias as just straight up Villainass Is a mistake.No conflicted feelings when It comes to Bruce Is disservice to her character.

Joseph Gordon Levitt's character I could do without.He gives good performance but It's clear this was a non costumed version of Robin.I would
have given some of screentime spent on him In first hour to others.

Morgan Freeman Is great as always.

I was disappointed with the Liem Neeson and Cillian Murphy Cameos.We didn't see Scarecrow In mask.And I would prefer a true flashback Instead of hallucation.Good to see them but more could have been done.

As for how I rate The Dark Knight rises among the great comic book films.Here are my ranking of top 10.

1-Tie between Superman,X2,and the Dark Knight
4-The Avengers
5-Tie between Batman Begins and X-Men first Class
7-X-Men
8-Tie Between Batman Returns and The Dark Knight Rises
10-The Amazing Spider-Man

 

[TheVileOne]

Overall I agree it is the least satisfying, and I think Dark Knight was superior.

 

[The Eradicator]

After seeing the film a second time (on the computer, not in theaters), I have to say that I feel much less conflicted this time around than during my initial viewing. I picked up on a lot of things I missed the first time, and I think the story flowed much better.

Once you accept that this is basically the resolution of Bruce Wayne's story, and the end of this trilogy, then the film becomes all the more satisfying, despite all the flaws here and there.

It's still the weakest of the trilogy, but nonetheless, a good and worthy film.

Batman Begins - 9/10
The Dark Knight - 9/10
The Dark Knight Rises - 7/10

 

[LostSon88]

Except for the fact the city was just as crime ridden and in theory as dilapidated in dk but... It looks pretty squeaky clean and prestine
.

That's only because they spent so much time in the Narrows, Arkham Asylum and underground/seedy areas of the city in "Batman Begins".

Up until TDK, they never really explored the rest of the city the way they did the next two movies.

 

[jmc]

Does anyone else think ordinary Gotham citizens should have been there at the end fighting with the police?