The Dark Knight Rises The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 1

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I am just telling you how Christopher Nolan probably approached it. He is a very classy and respectful guy so he probably felt just bringing him up at all wasn't appropriate.

I understand that, I just respectfully disagree. I think the Joker's mention would have enhanced the quality of the movie and its continuity. And perhaps he would have been included if Ledger hadn't died. I just wish an actor's death didn't have so much impact on the overall story.
 
Well Bruce Wayne and his Batman technically did die. That was the whole point. He wanted to start a NEW life. It really isn't on the same level at all as the Dent thing.
 
I understand that, I just respectfully disagree. I think the Joker's mention would have enhanced the quality of the movie and its continuity.

Of course it would have...and thats the point of the whole dilemma, dude. Lol. Chris more than likely would have included the Joker but felt uneasy about including the character that the recently deceased Heath Ledger made so amazing in the first place just for the sake of making his move better. It would have been nice to see Joker pop up again yes but I get why he wasn't included and it didn't ruin the film for me.
 
Of course it would have...and thats the point of the whole dilemma, dude. Lol. Chris more than likely would have included the Joker but felt uneasy about including the character that the recently deceased Heath Ledger made so amazing in the first place just for the sake of making his move better. It would have been nice to see Joker pop up again yes but I get why he wasn't included and it didn't ruin the film for me.

I don't think mentioning the Joker would have enhanced the film in any way shape or form. He dominated TDK and all it would do to mention him in this film is overstuff it even more. They mention Dent, Rachel and everyone else. I'm pretty certain they'd all just assume forgetting about the Joker. I'm glad they didn't mention him. It keeps TDK that much more owned by Joker.
 
I don't think mentioning the Joker would have enhanced the film in any way shape or form. He dominated TDK and all it would do to mention him in this film is overstuff it even more. They mention Dent, Rachel and everyone else. I'm pretty certain they'd all just assume forgetting about the Joker. I'm glad they didn't mention him. It keeps TDK that much more owned by Joker.
I agree.

Watching TDKR it really struck me just how much an "agent of chaos" Joker was - he really was totally unlike anything else in the Nolan movies. He literally existed to take Batman out of his comfort zone and create scenarios unlike anything else Batman would ever face.

It would make sense that he'd be kept separate and shut-out from TDKR. At the same time, watching TDKR, there was always that thought in the back of my head that Joker was out there, at the also-unmentioned Arkham, just watching and waiting.
 
Eight years of recluse living and non-use of a body would have really depleted Bruce's strength and energy. Sure, his skills and techniques would come back fairly quickly, but not so much his power and speed.

...hence why he was initially beaten by Bane.

It was only after months in prison and re-training that he is able to get back anywhere near where he needs to be.
 
I agree.

Watching TDKR it really struck me just how much an "agent of chaos" Joker was - he really was totally unlike anything else in the Nolan movies. He literally existed to take Batman out of his comfort zone and create scenarios unlike anything else Batman would ever face.

It would make sense that he'd be kept separate and shut-out from TDKR. At the same time, watching TDKR, there was always that thought in the back of my head that Joker was out there, at the also-unmentioned Arkham, just watching and waiting.

For me, personally, TDK is was the ultimate Batman film. The Joker, The Harvey/Two-face story even the Scarecrow. I always sort of knew it would be impossible to beat that film. When I started seeing the raves about TDKR, I thought "well, maybe Nolan found a way." Well, in the end, he didn't and that's okay. Still a pretty damn great film. I was never a big Bane fan. In fact, when I was younger my favorite Batman villian was Riddler. I would have loved to see him in this world but oh well...
 
[QUOTE="_____";23978805]Wow, amazing what a second viewing can do... I went to the midnight opening on Thursday and left the movie feeling very down... i just didnt enjoy it that much.. i gave the movie a 6

Just got back from seeing it again... and i cant explain it but... i really enjoyed it... i felt like i was watching a different movie... sure it had its flaws but they didnt bother me as much this time around... i was even emotional towards the end even though i knew exactly what was going to happen...

my final rating... I give it an 8, not perfect but so much better the 2nd time[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what happened to me.
 
I really do like this movie. Seeing it again did wonders. I wasn't as tensed up as before, knew what was coming and I took it all in better. It's a solid 8/10 for me.
 
I really do like this movie. Seeing it again did wonders. I wasn't as tensed up as before, knew what was coming and I took it all in better. It's a solid 8/10 for me.

Yeah, I need to see it again. When I saw BB in theatres I actually felt a little mixed on it. TDK I knew I loved completely as I walked out. TDKR, I have the BB reaction so I'm sure I'll warm up to it a-lot more on repeated viewings.
 
Yeah, I need to see it again. When I saw BB in theatres I actually felt a little mixed on it. TDK I knew I loved completely as I walked out. TDKR, I have the BB reaction so I'm sure I'll warm up to it a-lot more on repeated viewings.
It is not without issues, but I really enjoyed myself seeing it again. Overall I'm glad it's in the series. :up:
 
Thoughts on The Dark Knight Rises:
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Christopher Nolan concludes his Dark Knight trilogy with the Dark Knight Rises, promising the end of a Legend and the Fire rising as Gotham is sunk into utter chaos. The story was written by David S. Goyer, Christopher and Jonathan Nolan, giving a proper conclusion to the saga that began in 2005 with Batman Begins, with actors such as Christian Bale, Michael Cane, Morgan Freeman, Gary Oldman, each returning to their respective roles of Batman, Alfred Pennyworth, Lucius Fox and James Gordon. Star actors such as Anne Hathaway, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Marion Cotillard as Catwoman, John Blake and Miranda Tate. The main antagonist of the film is the terrorist leader Bane, played by Tom Hardy. Hans Zimmer as well returns to give his final soundtrack for the Caped Crusader.

The movie is not just a continuation of the previous installments or a movie of its own, but it is a finale to the series and that is why I can’t help but to feel very emotionally attached, I already love everything there is about Batman almost, but when I see the drama that Bruce Wayne & Alfred Pennyworth have to endure, with very human (and more importantly, real like emotion) you just really feel it when the things start to break apart from relations to pressure, such as the burden James Gordon has had to carry for Harvey Dent’s fall. I was tearing myself with each scene Michael Cane is, the chemistry we’ve seen him and Christian Bale have is one of the most cherished aspects of the franchise, I’d honestly hope Michael Cane would at least receive an Oscar Nomination from his performance, but that’s my inner Batman fan boy speaking.

Now on to the movie itself, it truly is Bruce Wayne’s story, he has exiled himself from the world after the events of the Dark Knight, both spiritually and physically weak, he gains new spark in life with the introduction of Catwoman, with rumors of a terrorist named Bane, a once member of the League of Shadows now in Gotham city, it’s time for Batman to get back into the game and chasing the cat. Anne Hathaway’s performance is a show stealer, which is funny because like Heath Ledger before her, it seemed majority we’re against her, but this performance has really sold the idea she can be a proper big action star herself, definitely another strong portrayal of Batman’s main bad girl.

Bane’s army isn’t simply a group of fanatical cultist terrorists, but also the poor and orphans of Gotham City, as all big crime organizations have more or less been dealt with thanks to Batman’s sacrifice over Dent, it’s the rich and powerful business men who have become the bigger threat, while the normal citizens keep getting poorer and poorer, it’s Bane’s plan to shake things up and have the people fight back for Gotham, but this is all just faux-social commentary, feeding the poor false hope while blaming the society’s fat cats as the cause of all bad, but in truth Bane is just wanting one thing: the total annihilation of Gotham. Tom Hardy’s face is covered the whole time with a gas mask more or less that keeps him alive, however Tom still makes a very physically imposing act with his body and more importantly, his use of the eyes. You feel the danger, the pure eyes of dedication he has for his cause, but it’s his voice that makes him at times feel more sympathetic villain, than a dangerous force of reckoning that someone like Darth Vader has as a voice. I guess I just feel I personally would have went with a different direction with the voice, but at the end of the day, Bane as he proclaims, he was the necessary evil that Gotham “had to” endure.

However, as the movie doesn’t truly have any real social class political message people we’re assuming there was, the only real message I can see this movie providing is the support on vigilantism, that people like Batman are needed in a society that is held by shackles, however how does this blend with the Dark Knight, which had Batman try to utilize the law to provide peace, is something you can debate and exchange views upon really, but is something interesting to think about.

Now, I have to mention two issues I had with this movie, the 1st being that this movie does question your suspension of disbelief, but how can this be possible? After all this is a movie about a man dressing up like a Bat! But when you have this franchise that marks itself for being such a hyper realistic world, it does become bothersome how characters just happen to be at the right place at the right time, or manage despite any real answer to move to a whole different location because the story demands it. The 2nd problem I had with this movie is sadly very disappointing, because you’d hope something better from the creative team, but the character of Miranda Tate is completely pointless in this entire movie. She serves no real purpose in the movie outside of fleshing out and motivating two other characters, besides that she is just one-sided character whose last scene is flat out laughably bad. These two flaws just really stick out, but luckily they don’t stop this from being a good movie.

Now if there is one thing Christopher Nolan has evolved the most from 2005, it definitely is his talent of filming action sequences, from the choreography to the camera angles, alongside the co-operation he has with Hans Zimmer, the music blends incredibly well within the action, and the action is downright chaotic in this film, explosions everywhere! War between the police and the terrorists! Batman vs. Bane! Don’t even get me started on the sheer awesomeness that is the first 8 minutes with the airplanes, it’s all just eye candy for the viewing pleasure.

There isn’t a thing I couldn’t over talk about and ramble about, with such a good movie that delivers such a great ending to a series of films, I couldn’t do anything more than to shout on top of my lungs to go see this movie, because the Fire Rises and the hype delivered, good bye to the wonderful creative team behind these movies.
 
8,5/10

The only gripes I had:

- Foley & Daggett,
I'm just glad they died...
- Miranda was trusted too easily
- Talia's death was...weird
- The prologue-voice: don't even listen to trolls again, Nolan. :cwink:


The things that stood out:

- Anne: oscar nom for this kitteh. There, I said it.
- Marion's
turning just so cold, I think she even changes her accent a bit.
- Michael Caine: his best performance as Alfred.
his little nod to Bruce at the cafe is just so beautiful, also him leaving with a satisfied little smile is just great.
-Tom Hardy: Brutal.
Him breaking Bats his back almost made me cry. His voice adds to the insanity, he sounds like some Shakesperian actor. Good to see Tom without the mask for a second, too.

And don't ever doubt Christian Bale as Wayne/Batman again. I dare ya. :o
 
for those complaining about the joker's absence, i would like to know if they think that releasing the joker would be something bane would be interested in doing. it's my opinion that if the joker were released, the only thing he'd want to do is
find the person who supposedly had the trigger to the nuclear device.
that's something bane would probably not want to have happen.

also, the joker's arc was a complete story. we don't need to see him in this movie or learn anything new from seeing him again. we know he is in confinement, and that given the opportunity he will escape and continue to try and taint the batman and test the limits of what society will do to survive. "I think you and I are destined to do this forever." TDK establishes the Joker as more than just a man, he is a symbol of evil that has corrupted all of gotham by way of harvey dent's actions (and the subsequent cover up and passage of the Dent Act). it's that evil that batman and gotham must rise above in TDKR. it would have been an unnecessary stunt.

as for continuity - i don't find it so shocking that no one in gotham would want to talk about the maniacal killer who terrorized the city almost a decade ago. probably something they want to forget, or more symbolically, are in denial about.

just my two cents, thinking way too much about a movie that i really enjoyed watching.
 
I was just thinking about this...you know what would've made this movie great?

If Bane in his speech told that Bruce Wayne is Batman. It makes no sense why he wouldn't?!?

THIS IS WHAT IT'S MISSING TO ME.

Then, his whole faking his death would have made sense,Gordon wouldn't look like a fool because Blake found out his identity and people wouldn't have to guess what happened to Bruce Wayne.

You easily solve a bunch of problems of this movie and raise the stakes with one simple thing.

Bane could've easily warped the whole thing and put the blame on Batman for what happened to Dent. Same with Gordon. Didn't Dent consider Gordon and Batman responsible for his fall? For the death of Rachel?

Bane should've told people the secret identity. This would've made people hate Batman/Bruce even more for ruining Dent's life and people's hope. People hated Batman in TDK and continued to do so in TDKR. Not only that, he was a vigilante, an outlaw destroying public properties with not a care in the world. Moreover, to the public eye, he was also an ******* as Bruce, the public persona. Just another billionaire who thought he was better than people. It would've added to his struggle.

This would've raised the stakes in the final act, turned people even more against Batman. People could never trust the guys who lied to the public. Then salvation would've came when he saved Gotham from the bomb.

Now Bruce has a legit reason to fake his death, start a new life and retire from being Batman. He would've never been left alone.

Moreover, it would've added unpredictability to such a predictable movie.

It's like things like this that stop TDKR from being amazing in my mind.


The way it is in the movie, Bane had the greatest weapon in his Arsenal but never used. He is a stupid lackey again who died one of the most ridiculous deaths ever in a comic book movie and is just another villain who is stupid as hell.

This could've added something unique to the character: He's the guy who ruined Bruce Wayne's life forever. A last moment of revenge.
 
Still a pretty damn great film. I was never a big Bane fan. In fact, when I was younger my favorite Batman villian was Riddler. I would have loved to see him in this world but oh well...

someone helped me put this together a couple days ago, but there is a Riddler allusion in the nolanverse. in TDK Mr. Reese is the man who plans to reveal batman's true identity on GCTV. Mr. Reese is one of the riddler's codenames. "Mr. Reese" -> Mysteries -> Riddler. I kind of thought Anthony Michael Hall's character was an attempt at a riddler allusion, but the Mr. Reese thing makes total sense.
 
for those complaining about the joker's absence, i would like to know if they think that releasing the joker would be something bane would be interested in doing. it's my opinion that if the joker were released, the only thing he'd want to do is
find the person who supposedly had the trigger to the nuclear device.
that's something bane would probably not want to have happen.

also, the joker's arc was a complete story. we don't need to see him in this movie or learn anything new from seeing him again. we know he is in confinement, and that given the opportunity he will escape and continue to try and taint the batman and test the limits of what society will do to survive. "I think you and I are destined to do this forever." TDK establishes the Joker as more than just a man, he is a symbol of evil that has corrupted all of gotham by way of harvey dent's actions (and the subsequent cover up and passage of the Dent Act). it's that evil that batman and gotham must rise above in TDKR. it would have been an unnecessary stunt.

as for continuity - i don't find it so shocking that no one in gotham would want to talk about the maniacal killer who terrorized the city almost a decade ago. probably something they want to forget, or more symbolically, are in denial about.

just my two cents, thinking way too much about a movie that i really enjoyed watching.

Just read two reviews in some belgian newspapers. One was very positive, the other one thought it was ok but "it misses the humor of other comicbook movies". It also complained about the finale being totally unrealistic :whatever: (the former: www.standaard.be, the latter is in the paper edition of www.nieuwsblad.be, both are in Dutch)

And, yep, you guessed it, they both miss Heath, "coz Bane is so brootal".
 
I was just thinking about this...you know what would've made this movie great?

If Bane in his speech told that Bruce Wayne is Batman. It makes no sense why he wouldn't?!?

THIS IS WHAT IT'S MISSING TO ME.

Then, his whole faking his death would have made sense,Gordon wouldn't look like a fool because Blake found out his identity and people wouldn't have to guess what happened to Bruce Wayne.

You easily solve a bunch of problems of this movie and raise the stakes with one simple thing.

Bane could've easily warped the whole thing and put the blame on Batman for what happened to Dent. Same with Gordon. Didn't Dent consider Gordon and Batman responsible for his fall? For the death of Rachel?

Bane should've told people the secret identity. This would've made people hate Batman/Bruce even more for ruining Dent's life and people's hope. People hated Batman in TDK and continued to do so in TDKR. Not only that, he was a vigilante, an outlaw destroying public properties with not a care in the world. Moreover, to the public eye, he was also an ******* as Bruce, the public persona. Just another billionaire who thought he was better than people. It would've added to his struggle.

This would've raised the stakes in the final act, turned people even more against Batman. People could never trust the guys who lied to the public. Then salvation would've came when he saved Gotham from the bomb.

Now Bruce has a legit reason to fake his death, start a new life and retire from being Batman. He would've never been left alone.

Moreover, it would've added unpredictability to such a predictable movie.

It's like things like this that stop TDKR from being amazing in my mind.


The way it is in the movie, Bane had the greatest weapon in his Arsenal but never used. He is a stupid lackey again who died one of the most ridiculous deaths ever in a comic book movie and is just another villain who is stupid as hell.

This could've added something unique to the character: He's the guy who ruined Bruce Wayne's life forever. A last moment of revenge.

You've mentioned the same idea twice, and still no one's paid attention to you. I guess it's a law of diminishing returns with your trollage. :)

Anyway, I'll bite for a second. Think about this.

He's trying to convince the people of Gotham that the rich and wealthy are EXPLOITING the weak and powerless to improve their lives.

He's trying to convince them that the corruption of Gotham was so steep that the GCPD and Law Courts created the Dent Act, which itself was based on a massive massive lie.

Out of the blue, what he also does is reveal that one of the richest, most philanthropic and potentially unhinged billionaires of the City, and one that could be held accountable for the crimes against the poor is....wait for it....BATMAN!

The same guy who went on a one-man crusade to support this city, save the Commissioner's son and countless others. Yeah, way to show how evil the rich and famous of Gotham are. One of them is a selfless vigilante who's saved the City on three occasions prior.

At that point the people of Gotham would likely vindicate the Batman for his crimes and say '**** YOU WE WANT THE PRISONERS TO STAY IN GOTHAM'. Harvey Dent being a psychopath or not, those guys are worse. Abolish the Dent Act and build it as the Batman Act. Good move. Nice way to subdue the City. Incite a revolution against a revolution.
 
If Bane in his speech told that Bruce Wayne is Batman. It makes no sense why he wouldn't?!?

THIS IS WHAT IT'S MISSING TO ME.

The answer has been given to you a number of times already, but I will repeat it anyway in simple terms -

To tell Gotham that a wealthy person is Batman who has sacrificed himself for the City would be counter-intuitive to his entire argument that the wealthy are exploiting the weak.

Moving on to your other point -

Then, his whole faking his death would have made sense,Gordon wouldn't look like a fool because Blake found out his identity

You easily solve a bunch of problems of this movie and raise the stakes with one simple thing.

How would Bane revealing that Batman was Wayne have changed the fact that Blake new before Gordon? In any case, I'm not sure why you believe Gordon looked a fool. There is a lengthy scene where Blake clearly explains how his unique experiences helped him make the connection.

people wouldn't have to guess what happened to Bruce Wayne.

It stands to reason that people were either given an explanation or that they assumed he was tried in the kangaroo Court and exiled with many of the other wealthy Gothamites.

You shouldn't need everything spelled out you know, sometimes you can just put two-and-two together.
 
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And, yep, you guessed it, they both miss Heath, "coz Bane is so brootal".

of course they miss heath, his performance was legendary. but mentioning him in this movie would not make sense thematically in my opinion. the joker is like the anti-batman, he is a symbol of what it means to live both without fear of death and without any rules (he is the chaos that batman has brought on gotham). that story was told, to completion, in TDK. what little continuity it would have added to the story (which was instead handled by a very well done cameo by Dr. Crane) would not have been worth the risk of pissing off fans and would have been unnecessary.

luckily for people like me, nolan got to make this movie the way HE wanted, so any pressure he might have felt from the fans/studio to insert some homage to ledger's joker or (i cringe even thinking about it) recast the character in this universe was thankfully ignored.
 
Out of the blue, what he also does is reveal that one of the richest, most philanthropic and potentially unhinged billionaires of the City, and one that could be held accountable for the crimes against the poor is....wait for it....BATMAN!

The same guy who went on a one-man crusade to support this city, save the Commissioner's son and countless others. Yeah, way to show how evil the rich and famous of Gotham are. One of them is a selfless vigilante who's saved the City on three occasions prior.

At that point the people of Gotham would likely vindicate the Batman for his crimes and say '**** YOU WE WANT THE PRISONERS TO STAY IN GOTHAM'. Harvey Dent being a psychopath or not, those guys are worse. Abolish the Dent Act and build it as the Batman Act. Good move. Nice way to subdue the City. Incite a revolution against a revolution.

i had the same reaction. bane can't reveal batman's identity, he doesn't want to see the city turn against bruce, he wants to see it tear itself apart from within. and so his speech directs their anger and frustration not at the man behind the cowl but at the powers that be in gotham - to foster the rioting and chaos intended to bring the city down.

i will agree that if it would've been done in the movie, i think i could have lived with it. bane could reveal his identity and i could see that being another point for the people of gotham to rally their hatred for the city's upper-crust. it could bring more chaos, but it could also make the batman character much more sympathetic in a way - the man who has been fighting the criminal underworld, who took the blame for Harvey Dent's murders and we've been calling a criminal for nearly a decade...is a member of the elite that we are so angry at now?

i'll agree, there could be a way to fit that into bane's plan - to turn the city against bruce specifically. but clearly those were not bane's intentions.
 
Just saw it yesturday. Apart from missing some of the beggining and havnt crap seats, the movie was really, really good. I think I'm going to have to see it a second time to actually take in everything that happened in better seats.

I love how this movie ties everything up from the previous two beautifully, though the ending I actually really love. It really is the story of Bruce Wayne in this movie, from coming frm being a recluse, in despair, to finally finding hope and happiness while being able to move on without batman, but the symbol still living on.

Another thing I loved is how, and this is credit to Hanz Zimmer/Nolan, the movie used [blackout]no score[/blackout] for some of the scenes, I think this worked really well in this movie, especially for the first fight and the stadium scene (with only the boy's voice singing the anthem)

Only thing I didn't really like was how Gotham looked exactly like New York, I know it's based on it, but I mean the city in Batman Begins actually looks like it's own city. I still liked it though.

Ovrall I did enjoy it, and somethings I didn't quite follow, in which a second viewing I think would really help in how I judge it. (and also as I had crappy seats, I couldn't really see much of the action either so I'm not commenting on that) Don't really want to give it a difinitive score just yet.
 
I'm not going to go into details....
Just a few brief bits and pieces.

I liked TDKR. I loved TDK.
Gripes.
TDKR was a bit too long. Bruces magical return from wherever he was down that well bothered me.. However explaining how he got back would have added more time to an already over running movie, so i'll let that slide.

Bane breaks into the underground facility of Wayne towers, steals a load of tumblers, puts them on the streets and NOBODY makes a link between Wayne and Batman?!?!?

Banes voice... Has Nolan learned nothing from the backlash he got over Batmans voice in TDK?

Robin. Either do Robin properly or don't do Robin at all. (wow, that one was littered with innuendo)


Things I loved.
Scratch that.
THING I loved.
Hathaways Catwoman. Brilliant.

Overall I gave TDKR 8/10
 
Bane breaks into the underground facility of Wayne towers, steals a load of tumblers, puts them on the streets and NOBODY makes a link between Wayne and Batman?!?!?

Did they know where he got them from...?
 
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