Nope, not conversations with myself. I'm actually having discussions with people outside of the forum and they come up with new theories that I never even thought about. So I bring them here to see what everyone thinks about them and see if we can discuss them.
@Geo- Some friends of mine at work HATED the ending. They thought it was very weak and didn't live up to the tagline. While I do agree it didn't live up to the tagline, it did surprise me because I didn't expect it to happen. But you do have to wonder though.
If Strahm did get into the box, would he have really survived? Or would he have entered into a trap that had no escape or no chance for him to survive? It's understandable why he didn't get into the box since it's hard to trust someone or something that designs concepts to physically and painfully test you or kill you.
Nope, not conversations with myself. I'm actually having discussions with people outside of the forum and they come up with new theories that I never even thought about. So I bring them here to see what everyone thinks about them and see if we can discuss them.
@Geo- Some friends of mine at work HATED the ending. They thought it was very weak and didn't live up to the tagline. While I do agree it didn't live up to the tagline, it did surprise me because I didn't expect it to happen. But you do have to wonder though.
If Strahm did get into the box, would he have really survived? Or would he have entered into a trap that had no escape or no chance for him to survive? It's understandable why he didn't get into the box since it's hard to trust someone or something that designs concepts to physically and painfully test you or kill you.
I don't think it was even Hoffmans intentions to put Strahm in the box. Going by what Jiggs told Hoffman about knowing how ppl think to know their anticipation on what they are going to do befor they do.So, in that Hoffman knew Strahm would try and pull a trick on Hoffman. Remember,Hoffman was trying to tie up loose ends so he never had any intentions of letting Strahm live,especially after he failed back at Gideons. So, to me Amanda and Hoffman were violating the rules of jiggs by making traps that ppl can't win..
I will agree the ending did'nt live up to the tagline,and I was disappointed that there was no shock 'n awe moments( I dont mean any trap/gore moments) or anykindof twists. This movie was more straight forward more of a cat 'n mouse situation
Saw V topped the Box Office last night with $3,100,000. Pretty sure it was due to the it being Halloween. Oddly, HSM3 dropped all the way down to fifth.
Saw V topped the Box Office last night with $3,100,000. Pretty sure it was due to the it being Halloween. Oddly, HSM3 dropped all the way down to fifth.
Somewhere the haters of SAW V are drinking their sorrows away and those who prayed for HSM3 to beat SAW V are crying a river of tears.
@Nocomics-
You bring up some very valid points man. Have you figured out what other bodies Erikson was talking about to Strahm? As I mentioned earlier I pointed out his early conversation where he said over a dozen dead bodies were found at Gideons two of which were cops. We know he wasn't talking about the combined bodies of the house from SAW I and II.
He was talking about Gideons. So the only way I can clear up that mystery is he was saying Cecil was dead too. Seriously you had Jigsaw, Amanda, Jeff, Lynn, the judge, Matthews, Rigg, Timothy, Danica, and maybe Cecil? Who knows. But he said over a dozen and we know a dozen is twelve. So are there other bodies that we don't know about? Even if you mention Cecil that's 10 bodies.
We can't count Perez since she was with Strahm and you can't count Kerry since she was found immediately after she was killed.
While we're on the topic of the box office success. Nirvana did they say where Zack and Miri was on the listings? If HSM3 dropped back down to fifth place. Then could it possibly be 1. SAW V, 2. Zack and Miri, 3. The Haunting Of Molly Hartley(which looks horrible by the way), and I can't think of any other films that could take the fourth or fifth spot except HSM3?
Furthermore, arson? Really? That is why these people were killed? That is their big sin that Jigsaw had to make them appreciate life for? What's next? [Creepy Tobin Bell voice]You hit a parked car and did not leave a note with your insurance information.[/Creepy Tobin Bell voice]
Oh come on dude, didn’t you pay attention to the last half of the movie? It wasn’t just arson, it was the ignorant murder of 8 people.
But Jigsaw did kill a person for just being antisocial once. Guess who.
Otherwise, I agree on the rest of your points, even if I’m not as harsh on it.
I did see it on friday finally. So here’s my review:
-Overall Saw V wasn’t a great disappointment but it didn’t quite live up to my expectations either.
-It’s definitely not as good as IV and I. I’ll probably end up putting it above III but I’m not quite sure yet.
-The first thing about it that I didn’t like was how simple and dry they cut some of the loose ends.
I didn’t want them to specifically survive or anything but I really wanted them to have some closure, instead of just - “Yes, the girl is saved, only to never be seen again. (Was that even the same actress?) Rigg and Perez? Oh yeah, they’re dead.”
-Also, it was too flashbacky. I mean, did they really have to reuse exactly the same scenes from previous films? I’ve seen them all before, why use up precious running time?
-Wouldn’t it have been better to spend that money on getting some the same actors for actual cameos in flashbacks, instead of just mentioning them?
-I place the traps in the same category as Saw III - over the top Rube Goldberg machines. Flashy but lack real substance.
The exploding nail bombs were a good idea though. If only they would’ve been used as a more important centrepiece instead of just room prophylactic.
-In my reviews (not on these forums) I complained that III didn’t have the detective’s perspective. I believe V did the exact opposite. Now with the detective story being the focus of the movie, the victim’s perspective is so unimportant.
Seriously, the game was used just for the **** of it. I know some people here hope that it’ll play a more crucial role in VI. I’m all for it but as of now, it’s pretty weak.
-Only 1/3 of the story really mattered to me.
-On a different note, it has a really good cliff-hanger. It set me up for VI nicely.
-But it’s not really worthy of being called a twist.
Yes, Hoffman was framing Strahm. It was shown throughout half of the movie. No big twist there. It all just came to a show down and Hoffman tricked him, no surprise there. But the beating was pretty cool to watch. I got to say, Strahm’s character pretty much played a Det. Tapp role here. With the neck scar and everything.
-Ultimately I’m, again, pretty disappointed in the writing more so because of how good Saw IV was written.
-This one’s truly the closest to a filler episode thus far.
Some technical stuff now:
-Hmm, different opening title sequence. I was kinda hoping they would stick to the blurry letters with them all.
-Maybe I wasn’t paying that much attention to it in other movies but they reused a lot of the same score from Saw I, didn’t they?
-I will get the DVD for the sake of the story no doubt.
-But seems to me like there was a significant chunk left of it on the cutting room floor.
-I’m definitely expecting an extended version.
-And I still hope that VI redeems V for me, just like IV did with III.
For those who are still in doubt:
Yes, it will end with VI. If the lead actor say so, it must be true (I can get you the youtube video, if you want). And there’s no Saw without Jigsaw.
Some of my own input in the apprentice matter…again:
I’m pretty positive Jill wrote that note to Hoffman.
But neither Jill, nor Dr. Gordon could be ‘apprentices’ since it would be completely out of character.
And here’s something to think about for one of your theories LastSunrise:
I did read the name Zep in one of those files. Though I didn’t read fast enough to see, if they say anything about what happened to him. But I’m pretty sure they couldn’t recover his body, so that means they can only suspect his involvement based on the testimonies of the Gordon family. But that would also make Det. Tapp’s fate still unknown to the police department, which would make his status no more than missing in action. Although I’m not implying that his character is still alive. He’s definitely dead but the cops have no way of knowing for sure.
I also have a pretty good idea that Adam could be on one of those lists although I didn’t notice him…
Now, did the writers intended for such logic or is this a plot-****-up and they included their names just for the **** of it, without thinking it through, if the bodies are found or not. Would they find them dropped off by Jigsaw and co. in random places other than their own traps?
Oh and Cecil is not in Gideon. His was the first name in the file, so they did discover him too.
And last thing:
Do I remember this right - did Strahm go through a restored version of the Saw II house to end up in the same room where he survived his water cube, now reformed as the glass box and squish walls room? Wouldn’t that make the bathroom, the house and the warehouse all connected? How did the police not discover it yet? What leads me to believe that are the tubes on the ceiling when Strahm tries to desperately kick it open, before the walls break his arm. Like Jigsaw said, this room can be your sanctuary or your grave. Are those the same tubes used in Strahm’s trap or something completely different?
Great post Trevor. I'll respond more in detail later on tonight. But I do have a question for you.
Why would it be out of character for Gordon to be an apprentice though? Remember how Adam pointed out hot weird it was for Gordon to admire the genius of Jigsaw. He had a lot of information that Adam knew nothing about and even stated how everything they thought of was already pre-thought out by Jigsaw. So would it really be out of character for him to be an apprentice?
Why would it be out of character for Gordon to be an apprentice though? Remember how Adam pointed out hot weird it was for Gordon to admire the genius of Jigsaw. He had a lot of information that Adam knew nothing about and even stated how everything they thought of was already pre-thought out by Jigsaw. So would it really be out of character for him to be an apprentice?
That was just emotional misleading babble. It was a situation of a character accusing another character. Same old cliché. No way did James or Leigh want to plant hints of him to become an apprentice six movies later. They didnt even think of a sequel at that time.
Dr. Gordon is a family man and he cut his foot to get out of there. I can understand someone like Amanda or Hoffman becoming apprentices because they were mentally dysfunctional before Jigsaw approached them. As far as sane people are concerned, they might as well be traumatised into appreciating their life more, but no way they would go on a whim and help Jigsaw all of a sudden. And I wouldnt want them to add anything like that to Dr. Gordons character because that would be cheating. They would change the whole essence of the character. Not unlike Jigsaw, where everything they came up with - first cancer, then wife and miscarriage, made his core essence stronger. We need Dr. Gordon to be the last beacon of light.
Your point about medical knowledge required for some of the traps has a stronger point. But its not like John Kramer couldnt educate himself. All the operations stuff was surgical at best. At least Hoffman has to know some of that stuff by way of his profession. I didnt even notice the guy limping in that key behind the eye video. Even if Jigsaw forced Gordon to do all that work for him, it still wouldve been a stretch.
1. Saw V - $3,100,000
2. Changeling - $2,300,000
3. Zach and Miri Make a Porno - $2,200,000
4. The Haunting of Molly Hartley - $1,750,000
5. High School Musical 3: Senior Year - $1,700,000
Oh come on dude, didnt you pay attention to the last half of the movie? It wasnt just arson, it was the ignorant murder of 8 people.
But Jigsaw did kill a person for just being antisocial once. Guess who.
Otherwise, I agree on the rest of your points, even if Im not as harsh on it.
I did see it on friday finally. So heres my review:
-Overall Saw V wasnt a great disappointment but it didnt quite live up to my expectations either.
-Its definitely not as good as IV and I. Ill probably end up putting it above III but Im not quite sure yet.
-The first thing about it that I didnt like was how simple and dry they cut some of the loose ends.
I didnt want them to specifically survive or anything but I really wanted them to have some closure, instead of just - Yes, the girl is saved, only to never be seen again. (Was that even the same actress?) Rigg and Perez? Oh yeah, theyre dead.
-Also, it was too flashbacky. I mean, did they really have to reuse exactly the same scenes from previous films? Ive seen them all before, why use up precious running time?
-Wouldnt it have been better to spend that money on getting some the same actors for actual cameos in flashbacks, instead of just mentioning them?
-I place the traps in the same category as Saw III - over the top Rube Goldberg machines. Flashy but lack real substance.
The exploding nail bombs were a good idea though. If only they wouldve been used as a more important centrepiece instead of just room prophylactic.
-In my reviews (not on these forums) I complained that III didnt have the detectives perspective. I believe V did the exact opposite. Now with the detective story being the focus of the movie, the victims perspective is so unimportant.
Seriously, the game was used just for the **** of it. I know some people here hope that itll play a more crucial role in VI. Im all for it but as of now, its pretty weak.
-Only 1/3 of the story really mattered to me.
-On a different note, it has a really good cliff-hanger. It set me up for VI nicely.
-But its not really worthy of being called a twist.
Yes, Hoffman was framing Strahm. It was shown throughout half of the movie. No big twist there. It all just came to a show down and Hoffman tricked him, no surprise there. But the beating was pretty cool to watch. I got to say, Strahms character pretty much played a Det. Tapp role here. With the neck scar and everything.
-Ultimately Im, again, pretty disappointed in the writing more so because of how good Saw IV was written.
-This ones truly the closest to a filler episode thus far.
Some technical stuff now:
-Hmm, different opening title sequence. I was kinda hoping they would stick to the blurry letters with them all.
-Maybe I wasnt paying that much attention to it in other movies but they reused a lot of the same score from Saw I, didnt they?
-I will get the DVD for the sake of the story no doubt.
-But seems to me like there was a significant chunk left of it on the cutting room floor.
-Im definitely expecting an extended version.
-And I still hope that VI redeems V for me, just like IV did with III.
For those who are still in doubt:
Yes, it will end with VI. If the lead actor say so, it must be true (I can get you the youtube video, if you want). And theres no Saw without Jigsaw.
Some of my own input in the apprentice matter again:
Im pretty positive Jill wrote that note to Hoffman.
But neither Jill, nor Dr. Gordon could be apprentices since it would be completely out of character.
And heres something to think about for one of your theories LastSunrise:
I did read the name Zep in one of those files. Though I didnt read fast enough to see, if they say anything about what happened to him. But Im pretty sure they couldnt recover his body, so that means they can only suspect his involvement based on the testimonies of the Gordon family. But that would also make Det. Tapps fate still unknown to the police department, which would make his status no more than missing in action. Although Im not implying that his character is still alive. Hes definitely dead but the cops have no way of knowing for sure.
I also have a pretty good idea that Adam could be on one of those lists although I didnt notice him
Now, did the writers intended for such logic or is this a plot-****-up and they included their names just for the **** of it, without thinking it through, if the bodies are found or not. Would they find them dropped off by Jigsaw and co. in random places other than their own traps?
Oh and Cecil is not in Gideon. His was the first name in the file, so they did discover him too.
And last thing:
Do I remember this right - did Strahm go through a restored version of the Saw II house to end up in the same room where he survived his water cube, now reformed as the glass box and squish walls room? Wouldnt that make the bathroom, the house and the warehouse all connected? How did the police not discover it yet? What leads me to believe that are the tubes on the ceiling when Strahm tries to desperately kick it open, before the walls break his arm. Like Jigsaw said, this room can be your sanctuary or your grave. Are those the same tubes used in Strahms trap or something completely different?
I meant to reply to this a lot sooner, but work has been really hectic as of late. But your review was very interesting and you brought up some interesting points.
I think a lot of the flashbacks were somewhat necessary. It was cool going back again to see the familiar aspects of SAW I. I liked seeing the barbed wire trap again, I liked seeing Hoffman and Jigsaw set up the Nerve Gas House trap, and so forth. I really thought it was going to lead up to Gordon returning or maybe something else pertaining to the first film.
I think it would be a lot better to actually have the sixth film end where it all began and have it end in the iconic bathroom. It would be amazing to see Hoffman either locked in shackles or maybe dead in the room. Of course I would've preferred if they hadn't rebuilt the house and make it all nice and pretty. I would've had the house stay abandoned and it when Hoffman gets his they could've had him in there with Adam, Xavier, Zepp, and Dr. Gordon's foot.
I'm not sure if you'll agree with me on this or not, but the sixth film needs to be really epic. They really need to have Hofman become the ultimate sadistic ******* who you will hate come the sixth film.
As for the way you stated that there was no closure? I think a lot of it has to do with Lionsgate wanting to save money instead of paying the actors to return. So they just use flashbacks, pictures, and etc in order to add closure. But I do agree it would've been nice to see Perez and Rigg actually die and see their bodies. As far as I know it was the same actress that played Corbett(Jeff and Lynn's daughter.)
It was a twist but it wasn't a twist for the ages.
Hoffman setting up Strahm was pretty obvious during the course of the film. I thought the biggest twist was how the glass box was for Strahm's survival and not for his death. I really thought Strahm had Hoffman when he pushed him in the box.
But I do agree that the tagline "You won't believe how it ends" was and is very misleading to a certain extent. I think the big twist will be for SAW VI though.
Somewhere the haters of SAW V are drinking their sorrows away and those who prayed for HSM3 to beat SAW V are crying a river of tears.
@Nocomics-
You bring up some very valid points man. Have you figured out what other bodies Erikson was talking about to Strahm? As I mentioned earlier I pointed out his early conversation where he said over a dozen dead bodies were found at Gideons two of which were cops. We know he wasn't talking about the combined bodies of the house from SAW I and II.
He was talking about Gideons. So the only way I can clear up that mystery is he was saying Cecil was dead too. Seriously you had Jigsaw, Amanda, Jeff, Lynn, the judge, Matthews, Rigg, Timothy, Danica, and maybe Cecil? Who knows. But he said over a dozen and we know a dozen is twelve. So are there other bodies that we don't know about? Even if you mention Cecil that's 10 bodies.
We can't count Perez since she was with Strahm and you can't count Kerry since she was found immediately after she was killed.
HSM3 topped the box office again this weekend with 15 million. Zach and Miri was number 2 with 11 million with Saw right behind it at 10 million. So yes, I am sure the HSM fans are crying a river of tears and the Saw haters are drinking their sorrows away
HSM3 topped the box office again this weekend with 15 million. Zach and Miri was number 2 with 11 million with Saw right behind it at 10 million. So yes, I am sure the HSM fans are crying a river of tears and the Saw haters are drinking their sorrows away
Meh, I really don't care honestly. Yeah HSM3 won the weekend again but it doesn't matter. All films are going to take a massive beating this Friday with Madagascar 2 coming out this Friday and the new James Bond next Friday. So if I were you, I wouldn't gloat at the prospect of SAW V dropping down to three.
How's that X3 sequel coming along for you fans though? At least with SAW we KNOW we're getting a sequel and we have a studio who doesn't interfere with the production process.
I think a lot of the flashbacks were somewhat necessary. It was cool going back again to see the familiar aspects of SAW I. I liked seeing the barbed wire trap again, I liked seeing Hoffman and Jigsaw set up the Nerve Gas House trap, and so forth. I really thought it was going to lead up to Gordon returning or maybe something else pertaining to the first film.
No, of course, I have nothing against the flashbacks showing Hoffmans involvement. I was talking more about the type of flashbacks like Strahm shooting Jeff. That kind of waters down the effect it had in Saw IV.
You know what I missed in Saw V - polaroid snap shots.
I think it would be a lot better to actually have the sixth film end where it all began and have it end in the iconic bathroom. It would be amazing to see Hoffman either locked in shackles or maybe dead in the room. Of course I would've preferred if they hadn't rebuilt the house and make it all nice and pretty. I would've had the house stay abandoned and it when Hoffman gets his they could've had him in there with Adam, Xavier, Zepp, and Dr. Gordon's foot.
Well, I guess the house was remodelled for possible cover ups, not exclusive to Strahms trap.
As for the ending, Id like them to end it such a way as to not to exactly meet fan expectations. I want something unpredictable yet conclusive.
I'm not sure if you'll agree with me on this or not, but the sixth film needs to be really epic. They really need to have Hofman become the ultimate sadistic ******* who you will hate come the sixth film.
As for the way you stated that there was no closure? I think a lot of it has to do with Lionsgate wanting to save money instead of paying the actors to return. So they just use flashbacks, pictures, and etc in order to add closure. But I do agree it would've been nice to see Perez and Rigg actually die and see their bodies. As far as I know it was the same actress that played Corbett(Jeff and Lynn's daughter.)
I'm curious Trevor and this is a question to everyone who has seen SAW V. How would you do SAW VI? How would you end the film in general? As I said before, there was this person who wrote this amazing script of SAW V and VI.
I mean it was very well written and the way he/she wrote the ending you definitely didn't see it coming. There was twists and turns everywhere you turned your head and I kept on reading it just to see what happened. Unfortunately I was banned from the SAW forum even though I rarely posted there and never engaged in any flame wars at all.
The person's proposed ending had Strahm thinking he could take over Jigsaw's legacy and he managed to kill Hoffman. Just as he thinks he got away a hooded figure in the pig mask takes him down and locks him in a room with an unconcious Jill. Strahm is looking around and he finds a tape recorder as it serves flashbacks of Gordon cutting his foot off, crawling out of the room and Jigsaw offering him another test and Gordon passing it, then Jigsaw takes him under his wing and keeps him hidden. If I'm not mistaken it ended with Gordon taking off the pig mask revealing his face and giving a smirk while limping away as Strahm is screaming.
It's hard for me to put it into words because it was written much better than any explanation I could give, you know?
Somewhere the haters of SAW V are drinking their sorrows away and those who prayed for HSM3 to beat SAW V are crying a river of tears.
@Nocomics-
You bring up some very valid points man. Have you figured out what other bodies Erikson was talking about to Strahm? As I mentioned earlier I pointed out his early conversation where he said over a dozen dead bodies were found at Gideons two of which were cops. We know he wasn't talking about the combined bodies of the house from SAW I and II.
He was talking about Gideons. So the only way I can clear up that mystery is he was saying Cecil was dead too. Seriously you had Jigsaw, Amanda, Jeff, Lynn, the judge, Matthews, Rigg, Timothy, Danica, and maybe Cecil? Who knows. But he said over a dozen and we know a dozen is twelve. So are there other bodies that we don't know about? Even if you mention Cecil that's 10 bodies.
We can't count Perez since she was with Strahm and you can't count Kerry since she was found immediately after she was killed.
I would'nt count Cecil's for the fact that his trap was way early in Jiggs career,but its possible they are counting him..Far as them saying a 'dozen' bodies,maybe thats just some metaphor or just some wording they used to spice up the moment??? So, lets see: Jiggs,Amanda,Jeff,Lynn,Danica,Judge,Timothy,Mattews,Riggs,the lawyer(forgot name).Cecil,not sure,and not sure about the guy the lawyer was fighting with(blind/mute) not sure if that trap was at Gideons or another location..
I'm curious Trevor and this is a question to everyone who has seen SAW V. How would you do SAW VI? How would you end the film in general? As I said before, there was this person who wrote this amazing script of SAW V and VI.
I mean it was very well written and the way he/she wrote the ending you definitely didn't see it coming. There was twists and turns everywhere you turned your head and I kept on reading it just to see what happened. Unfortunately I was banned from the SAW forum even though I rarely posted there and never engaged in any flame wars at all.
The person's proposed ending had Strahm thinking he could take over Jigsaw's legacy and he managed to kill Hoffman. Just as he thinks he got away a hooded figure in the pig mask takes him down and locks him in a room with an unconcious Jill. Strahm is looking around and he finds a tape recorder as it serves flashbacks of Gordon cutting his foot off, crawling out of the room and Jigsaw offering him another test and Gordon passing it, then Jigsaw takes him under his wing and keeps him hidden. If I'm not mistaken it ended with Gordon taking off the pig mask revealing his face and giving a smirk while limping away as Strahm is screaming.
It's hard for me to put it into words because it was written much better than any explanation I could give, you know?
I kindof like that ending that would be killer,though we know now that Strahm has no part in Saw VI at all..
I hope they add some twists,and turns,as to me Saw V was a straight forward movie,and like most ppl was expecting some twist at the end..
I liked it for the most part, but as soon as Strahm got Huffman in the glass "coffin" I knew he was a goner. But I really wish they wouldve introduced a detective from the 1st or this film that would make it through every film (except maybe the very last whenever that is) to oppose Jigsaw/Hoffman instead of killing off all the good guys.
But I was super glad Julie Benz's survived. Hopefully she comes back.
I liked it for the most part, but as soon as Strahm got Huffman in the glass "coffin" I knew he was a goner. But I really wish they wouldve introduced a detective from the 1st or this film that would make it through every film (except maybe the very last whenever that is) to oppose Jigsaw/Hoffman instead of killing off all the good guys.
But I was super glad Julie Benz's survived. Hopefully she comes back.
That would've actually been cool. Like they could've made it so that Strahm would have to save Hoffman's life in order to save his own but inevitably let him escape through the hatch in the floor. Maybe he would even have to trust Hoffman to save him in return as well and that's where Hoffman could swing his decision either way.
As for what I want from Saw VI, I'll get back to you with that.
No I am not talking to myself again, I'm throwing this out there for people to read and think about.
I watched all five of the SAW films just recently and I came to some conclusions.
1.
The events are very out of order as a way of creating a puzzle. You learn that Hoffman was in on it from the very beginning in terms of framing Dr. Gordon, warning Jigsaw about Tapp, kidnapping Paul, and etc.
2.
You have to wonder what kind of working relationship did him and Eric Matthews have? Remember Strahm came to the conclusion that Hoffman supplied all of the police records of the ex-convincts in the House Trap? Eric was able to attain convictions on them by planting false evidence. None of which could've happened without Hoffman knowing about it.
3. Now here's the real kicker and I just thought of this one.
People have suggested that they're tired of the apprentice concept. Well when you think about it this makes sense for Jigsaw. Now we definitely know there was no way he would've been able to keep track of EVERYONE. He had to have help right? He had two apprentices working with him the entire time.
Now here's where the interesting information comes in.
Amanda- She was taken under his wing in hopes of carrying on Jigsaw's work after he died. She was placed in situations to make sure the rules were followed and offer choices.
Hoffman- Jigsaw needed someone who could work inside the police department and become an obstacle when officers were close to him. So he needed Hoffman to work the system in order to get files on the convicts in the House Trap, frame Dr. Gordon, and so forth. He needed that extra brain to help him manipulate the law and cover his tracks even more.
Now who's to say he doesn't need Dr. Gordon? It kind of makes sense. Amanda was there to help and be involved in the games, Hoffman was involved in the games and working the legal system, and Jigsaw had to have needed someone who could take care of him and give him medical assistance right? He needed someone who could create traps and do procedures that wouldn't have killed the test subjects right? He needed someone to get medicine without it being suspicious. So it's possible that Gordon could be alive and is working with Jigsaw too. It's not too far fetched for him to have three apprentices working with him at the same time.
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and the past couple posts seem to be conversations with yourself. i understand discussing theories, but...
