The Official 'Thor Rate & Review' thread - Part 1

[Wolvieboy17]

I still don't think it would be that much of a risk or change. The movie could stay very similar, except after we see Thor get banished, it suddenly cuts to Dr Donald Blake waking up from a nightmare. He seems distressed but then his gf, jane Foster rolls over and hugs him and he goes back to sleep...Carry on like that, with moments of Thor breaking out, etc, and then with his final reveal as Thor, Jane discovers Donald never existed at all. That would create an awesome dynamic between Jane and Thor, as well as showing the scope of Odin's powers.

 

[Vartha]

Not to confuse you any further, in the recent Ultimate Thor origin it's Revealed Don Blake is BALDER......kind of coincidental that both Blake and Balder aren't IN the moive isn't it?

 

[Gamma Burst]

I'm confused now. Donald Blake ISN'T just a false persona of Thor's that he labored under for years but is actually his own person? That's what I meant when I said why go to such trouble? Why have a need to stick him in the void?

Actually, Odin created blake too.

 

[kedrell]

I still don't think it would be that much of a risk or change. The movie could stay very similar, except after we see Thor get banished, it suddenly cuts to Dr Donald Blake waking up from a nightmare. He seems distressed but then his gf, jane Foster rolls over and hugs him and he goes back to sleep...Carry on like that, with moments of Thor breaking out, etc, and then with his final reveal as Thor, Jane discovers Donald never existed at all. That would create an awesome dynamic between Jane and Thor, as well as showing the scope of Odin's powers.

Hmm, I think that would kind of be short-changing the whole point of Donald Blake. We want to see him live his life and struggle with a handicap and all that to give more weight to how much of an experience it would take to humble someone as powerful and long lived as Thor. And that's where integrating the backstories of both existences would become a problem since you don't want to short change either of them. They're both crucial to defining who Thor is as a person. At least, if they had decided to go this route.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

So what are you thinking Vartha, maybe Don Blake will turn up later as Balder?

I could see a story about a lost son of Asgard, who was sent to Midgard through trickery

 

[Vartha]

I'm confused now. Donald Blake ISN'T just a false persona of Thor's that he labored under for years but is actually his own person? That's what I meant when I said why go to such trouble? Why have a need to stick him in the void?

Yes (I knew this would be complicated) Blake is a REAL human Odin created him from Keith. Now because Don is a LIVING Being, Odin just doesn't wipe him out of existence because that just isn't the way he does things. To Odin that would be killing Blake an innocent person.

Blake was a CLONE basically of Kieth Kincade except for being lame.
The Lameness was somehow fixed in the void, and when Odin was killed in vol 2 the Spell that Odin cast was Broken and Don re-entered the real world. He had been on Earth for 3 years before Ragnarok in vol 2.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Hmm, I think that would kind of be short-changing the whole point of Donald Blake. We want to see him live his life and struggle with a handicap and all that to give more weight to how much of an experience it would take to humble someone as powerful and long lived as Thor. And that's where integrating the backstories of both existences would become a problem since you don't want to short change either of them. They're both crucial to defining who Thor is as a person. At least, if they had decided to go this route.

You can create a character like Don Blake quite easily though. You don't need to show him getting the limp, growing up etc. You show him struggling to get out of bed, perhaps on pain killers, using his walking stick to go to work. Make it looks like he's having a mental break down. The one thing missing from the Thor movie was Thor learning elements of humanity through hospital staff, like Don Blake and Jane Foster dedicating their lives to helping others.

There's a great Doctor Who episode that is very similar to this concept, where the Doctor Hides himself in a human body and erases his memory of it to protect himself. When you get to the moment where he has to be revealed, the human version known as John Smith has to say goodbye to the woman he has loved as a mortal. Even though that person isn't real, he has all the memories etc. I can't remember the name of the ep, although it was bloody amazing. Series 3 I believe, with Tennant. If you watch that you'll see what i mean, it could have been amazing, and what a reveal and twist to the GA to find out that Donald Blake doesn't exist at all, or was created purely for Thor's benefit.

 

[kedrell]

Actually, Odin created blake too.

But Blake IS Thor, isn't he? Just w/o his memories and with his godly form transformed into a mortal one. Kinda like that movie Total Recall. Once Blake gets his memories back then he's got them as well as the memories he's made in his time on earth as Blake. I just don't get the need to have anything tossed into some void. Kinda pointless. Thor couldn't simply integrate all the memories of his mortal life? They're HIS memories just the same.

 

[Vartha]

So what are you thinking Vartha, maybe Don Blake will turn up later as Balder?

I could see a story about a lost son of Asgard, who was sent to Midgard through trickery

Well it makes some sense doesn't it? I don't know that for sure, but if Odin hid the Cosmic Cube on Earth, why not Balder as well if his Death means the Start of Ragnarok?

 

[Wolvieboy17]

That would be an amazing thing in future movies Vartha.

@Kedrell, No, Blake and Thor are different people. It's like two beings inhabiting the one body. When he bangs the stick he physically transforms INTO Thor.

 

[kedrell]

Yes (I knew this would be complicated) Blake is a REAL human Odin created him from Keith. Now because Don is a LIVING Being, Odin just doesn't wipe him out of existence because that just isn't the way he does things. To Odin that would be killing Blake an innocent person.

THIS is where I think it gets kinda pointless. Odin simply couldn't have turned Thor into a frail mortal baby w/o his memories and dropped him on Earth? Seems like a better idea to me. In fact, I thought that's what Lee & Kirby first had in mind.

 

[Vartha]

But Blake IS Thor, isn't he? Just w/o his memories and with his godly form transformed into a mortal one. Kinda like that movie Total Recall. Once Blake gets his memories back then he's got them as well as the memories he's made in his time on earth as Blake. I just don't get the need to have anything tossed into some void. Kinda pointless. Thor couldn't simply integrate all the memories of his mortal life? They're HIS memories just the same.

No Blake isn't Thor, he shares memories AND some experiences being with Thor but he's nothing but a Clone of Keith Kincade.

See these memories are also Shared with Thor too. There's a story where Thor uses Blake's skills as a Doctor to save Hogun's Life.
There's also a time when Thor's 2nd host Jake Olsen used Blake's Skills because Thor had Blake's skills. lol


I need to find our Blake threads. lol

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Because perhaps Odin wanted to create a specific type of person, so he could choose what sort of humble, mortal existence Thor should experience? What if Thor accidentally became a pimp or a corrupt politician or something silly like that?

 

[kedrell]

When did this whole 'they're actually two seperate people' start in the comics? Was it from the begining or added later? Because if it was added later then I'd say it was an unneccessarily complicated add-on.

 

[kedrell]

Because perhaps Odin wanted to create a specific type of person, so he could choose what sort of humble, mortal existence Thor should experience?

That could have been taken care of by Odin simply searching the earth for a worthy family to raise baby Thor...er, Donald Blake.

What if Thor accidentally became a pimp or a corrupt politician or something silly like that?

That's simply a risk that is always there. Hopefully he would have picked a good earth mother & father to raise his son so the likelihood of such an outcome would be minimal. Plus, he still made baby Thor..er, Donald Blake lame.

 

[Vartha]

THIS is where I think it gets kinda pointless. Odin simply couldn't have turned Thor into a frail mortal baby w/o his memories and dropped him on Earth? Seems like a better idea to me. In fact, I thought that's what Lee & Kirby first had in mind.

Yeah I guess he could have started from "scratch" as an infant but a ready made honorable occupation also has something to do with it too. He might not become a Doctor that way and it was quicker.
My guess is to completely remove Thor from ALL his godhood including his body. Making him Mortal makes him more apt to be wounded, he's not so easily healed.
See Thor also knew he couldn't be hurt physically, being in a weaker form makes Thor think about his actions because he can be hurt.

 

[Vartha]

When did this whole 'they're actually two seperate people' start in the comics? Was it from the begining or added later? Because if it was added later then I'd say it was an unneccessarily complicated add-on.

During volume one before Walt's run. Walt created Kieth Kincade.

 

[Vartha]

Basically can you see why they didn't use Blake? lol

 

[kedrell]

Yeah I guess he could have started from "scratch" as an infant but a ready made honorable occupation also has something to do with it too. He might not become a Doctor that way and it was quicker.
My guess is to completely remove Thor from ALL his godhood including his body. Making him Mortal makes him more apt to be wounded, he's not so easily healed.
See Thor also knew he couldn't be hurt physically, being in a weaker form makes Thor think about his actions because he can be hurt.

But all that(the occupation, Thor's new body being frail and prone to injury, etc) could have still all worked out completely w/o the need to create a whole new person for Thor to 'inhabit'. It's overly complicated.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I still don't see the problem.

Honestly, watch that Dr Who episode.......... It will make a believe out of you that it could work.

 

[kedrell]

During volume one before Walt's run. Walt created Kieth Kincade.

I mean was it Lee & Kirby's original idea to make this so complicated? I suspect it was some other writer's idea who came on the book later(but before Simonson) but if I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

 

[kedrell]

I still don't see the problem.

Honestly, watch that Dr Who episode.......... It will make a believe out of you that it could work.

It ultimately boils down to this: Why make a human host for a god rather than just turning that god INTO a human in the first place?

 

[Vartha]

But all that(the occupation, Thor's new body being frail and prone to injury, etc) could have still all worked out completely w/o the need to create a whole new person for Thor to 'inhabit'. It's overly complicated.

lol yeah to a point I agree, but then you wouldn't have stories that went with all that would you? lol

See Blake was more than just a teaching tool of humility it was to show honor and Scarifice. Once Thor learned all that in volume 1 (and all the Avengers book) Odin seperated them.
Odin wanted to basically to take steps with Thor making sure Thor would Grasp what he was sent here for. In a way it back-fired and Thor didn't want to return to Asgard as you can see in the Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

 

[kedrell]

Basically can you see why they didn't use Blake? lol

The way they convoluted it in the comics? Yeah. But it so easily could have been streamlined to make sense easily. MY issue with why doing the whole Blake thing had more to do with it requiring a much longer runtime to do such a grand scale story justice(two lifetimes, one of them immortal, both fleshed out properly). It would've needed to be 2 & 1/2 to 3 hrs long.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Because it would be easy to be cast down as a mortal but still yourself and not learn humility at all. If anything, it could serve to make you incredibly bitter and jaded. But to experience the world through a specific set of eyes, namely someone who has suffered a great deal but still gives everything they have to help others...THAT would be more interesting, no?