The Dark Knight The Rachel Dawes thread

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Off-topic discussion is one thing, but jeebus. :dry:

This thread isn't designed to be some goofy message board version of Hot or Not. If you can't contain your comments here to dealing with Maggie Gyllenhall's role as Rachel Dawes, I suggest you go indulge in the Celebrity forum.
 
Off-topic discussion is one thing, but jeebus. :dry:

This thread isn't designed to be some goofy message board version of Hot or Not. If you can't contain your comments here to dealing with Maggie Gyllenhall's role as Rachel Dawes, I suggest you go indulge in the Celebrity forum.

OK MISTER J I agree with you my friend, SOOOO what is your take on Maggie as Rachel Dawes?? I hardly ever hear you put in your opinion on some of these matters and I would like to hear what you have to say, so please let it all out. Im on the side with the people that love her as an actress and think shes a very beautiful woman with the classic beauty of the old time actresses.


maggie.jpg


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OK MISTER J I agree with you my friend, SOOOO what is your take on Maggie as Rachel Dawes?? I hardly ever hear you put in your opinion on some of these matters and I would like to hear what you have to say, so please let it all out. Im on the side with the people that love her as an actress and think shes a very beautiful woman with the classic beauty of the old time actresses.
Honestly, her attractiveness varies to me depending on the pic. Sometimes, the dirty thoughts are there and at others, the foremost thought I have is how funny-looking of a work 'Gyllenhall' is.

I've never had any concerns about her ability to act in the role though; she's obviously talented and it'll be a huge upgrade over the previous flick. Maggie brings more maturity and range to Rachel and I've bought into the chemistry between she and Bruce more through the last trailer than I did in all of Begins. Whereas I regarded Rachel as simply a symbolic appendage in the first film, I believe I'll be able to value her presence in the upcoming feature.

It's weird; I always figured myself to be above commenting that a character should be killed off just because I didn't like the actress. However, when Katie was still attached to the role, I wanted Joker to kill her (heighten the Bats/Joker dynamic). Now that a more capable actress has come onboard, I don't have those feelings so much any more. :o
 
Off-topic discussion is one thing, but jeebus. :dry:

This thread isn't designed to be some goofy message board version of Hot or Not. If you can't contain your comments here to dealing with Maggie Gyllenhall's role as Rachel Dawes, I suggest you go indulge in the Celebrity forum.


Thank you.
 
Hey, if the Joker thinks she's beauftiful, that's good enough for me. he even slicks his hair back to make himself look good, he's so smitten with her.
Course, he does
throw her off a roof later, so maybe it's a doomed romance.
 
Just a reminder to everyone:

1) This is the RACHEL DAWES thread
2) Calling people names because they have a different opinion will not be allowed
3) Post civily...or don't post
4) Stay on topic
 
I honestly can't imagine having a guy who (if they even took any interest) found out that I colored my hair would then turn around and say "Oh I'm so disappointed, it's not REAL!" What bloody difference does it make if the end result is the same and it's how I prefer to look? If you want to talk about whats "real" - all of our social behavior is learned and trained, nothing we do is "real," from being able to speak and read to not bludgeoning someone to death over an argument. We are products of our culture, our upbringing and our society, who we "really" are is entirely relevant.

Anyway, this got long, but ... don't get a girl started, know what I mean?

Any guy with class wouldn't say that to you, but he might think it if he initially thought your hair was naturally red. I'm personally more cool with the idea if you're upfront about what you changed or I can tell that it's been altered in some way. It's a part of human nature to have a preference for things that are non-artificial (e.g., diamonds vs cubic zirconia, butter vs. marjorine, natural full breasts vs. silicone).

Like I stated earlier on, hair coloring isn't a huge deal for me. I do wish less women would opt for this change, however. I simply have my reasons...

Again, my problem is just when people abuse "change" to the extreme and I think you know what I'm getting at, because you're fairly intelligent. Having surgery to correct an abnormality or remove a potentially cancerous mole that could save your life is obviously a necessity and a privilege for those who can afford it. I'm not focusing on that here. What I am concerned about is the lack of self esteem in a person who feels that she must alter the size of her breasts or go out and buy herself a new nose, just because some shallow POS told her she isn't pretty enough. As has been proven evident in this very forum, quite a handful of people think Maggie is great looking and then you have those that don't find her all that attractive. You can't always change someone's mindset, but you don't have to go and change yourself.

If I offended you, I'm sorry for that; it wasn't my intention.
 
Just had to mention this too. What a great example - okay, you look at cosmetic dentistry as acceptable because teeth apparently "should be" straight and aligned in someones mouth, even if they weren't born with straight teeth. Great. So how do you decide what body part "should be" a certain way? My point is that what you consider "body alteration to another level" is entirely subjective ... on a big sliding scale of what people might do to alter their appearance.

Noone is born with straight teeth. When you're a kid and one of your teeth really starts to shake, having it removed on time usually enables new ones to grow in properly. Worked for me and I hardly ever went to the dentist. Still, I'm no expert on dentistry.

And yes, what I consider "body alteration to another level" IS entirely subjective. So what though? If you went and had multiple things about yourself changed to the point that your husband no longer recognized you, don't you think he would be just a little upset? Now, if you just had a few highlights added to your hair, I sincerely doubt he would care as much.
 
Oh, you wouldn't like me, cause I'm one of those "fake" women with dyed hair AND perm curls. *shock and horror!* I know, I know... it's really over the top and a huge turn off, but I'm just vain like that.

Well, I like you as a person and I don't think you're fake just because your hair color might be.

I let my views be known, but I don't push them on anyone.
 
Again, my problem is just when people abuse "change" to the extreme and I think you know what I'm getting at, because you're fairly intelligent. Having surgery to correct an abnormality or remove a potentially cancerous mole that could save your life is obviously a necessity and a privilege for those who can afford it. I'm not focusing on that here. What I am concerned about is the lack of self esteem in a person who feels that she must alter the size of her breasts or go out and buy herself a new nose, just because some shallow POS told her she isn't pretty enough. As has been proven evident in this very forum, quite a handful of people think Maggie is great looking and then you have those that don't find her all that attractive. You can't always change someone's mindset, but you don't have to go and change yourself.

If I offended you, I'm sorry for that; it wasn't my intention.

Well that's cool, I'm just saying lets be realistic here. All people change their natural appearance, even if it's just getting their hair cut. If you're a guy you shave. If you didn't you'd have a beard to your knees.

I assume you don't have a beard down to your knees. Does that necessarily make you shallow or someone with low self esteem?

I disagree with the assumption that someone who "buys themselves a new nose" is doing it because they're trying to change someones mindset, or because "some POS told them they weren't pretty enough." I also disagree that women who have work done are all troubled with low self esteem. That is an assumption also perpetuated in the media, and by extreme cases like MJ. I think that the majority of the millions of people every year in this country who get cosmetic surgery are doing it for the following reasons.

1.) To reverse signs of aging and to look on the outside how they feel themselves to be on the inside... in which case you could argue that they are trying to *return* to their natural appearance which they have lost through time+gravity, sun-damage to their skin, etc.
2.) Because they have always been personally unhappy with something about their appearance and they want to have it changed, for themselves. Not for anyone else.

Speaking for myself, I do not suffer from low self-esteem, nor do I care what anyone else might say about my looks. I am happily married and I'm not looking to use my appearance as social currency, as a gold digger or to land some part in a film. Now, if I had the spare $$$ there are probably one or two things I would have changed, just because they bug me, and I have that option. Not because anyone else called me ugly as a child, or because I think it's going to get me a lot of dates, and certainly not because my goal would be to look like one of those "famous plastic people" who has their lips blown up to three times their natural size because Angelina Jolie is all the rage right now, or something really stupid like that.

So if I took offense to your comments it was only because from my personal perspective I can see that generalizing all people who have, or might have something done are "shallow" or have "low self-esteem" or are just easily impressionable by the opinions of others. God and everyone on these boards knows that last part certainly isn't true about me. :cwink:
 
Noone is born with straight teeth. When you're a kid and one of your teeth really starts to shake, having it removed on time usually enables new ones to grow in properly. Worked for me and I hardly ever went to the dentist. Still, I'm no expert on dentistry.

It may not be that common - I don't know the statistics, but I've never had anything done to my teeth, and they are thankfully perfectly straight and I've never had a cavity. Which is lucky because I don't have any sort of insurance!

I'm sure it's like 20/20 vision. This is what is considered normal. But how many people have 20/20 vision? I don't. And no one in either side of my family (biological and inlaws) have 20/20 vision either.

And yes, what I consider "body alteration to another level" IS entirely subjective. So what though? If you went and had multiple things about yourself changed to the point that your husband no longer recognized you, don't you think he would be just a little upset? Now, if you just had a few highlights added to your hair, I sincerely doubt he would care as much.

Obviously. And yet you can have multiple things changed about yourself and be surprised to find that no one even notices, because they were done to be natural looking and tasteful. You could go away for a week, get the bags under your eyes removed, get a skin peal, some wrinkle fillers and people might just think you got a new haircut or a facial or a relaxing weekend and some good sleep. In general when people end up looking like freaks after cosmetic work they either had a bad doctor working on them, or really have body dismorphic disorder and don't know when to stop with the changes.
 
Well, I like you as a person and I don't think you're fake just because your hair color might be.

I let my views be known, but I don't push them on anyone.

Aww, he likes me as a person. :cwink:

My feeling is that I am a natural red-head, but my parents made a mistake in my DNA sequencing, which I must now rectify through alternate means.
 
Aww, he likes me as a person. :cwink:

My feeling is that I am a natural red-head, but my parents made a mistake in my DNA sequencing, which I must now rectify through alternate means.

You know what I mean.
 
And yet you can have multiple things changed about yourself and be surprised to find that no one even notices, because they were done to be natural looking and tasteful.


I was referring to very obvious changes. You should be a politician.
 
You know what I mean.

I'm pointing out that people use appearances as a form of self-expression. How you cut your hair and what color you make it and how you style it and what clothes you wear and what work (if any) you have done to yourself, it all has to do with projecting to the world an external image in line with your internal image. If I had blonde pigtails that would be a very different image to present to the world than shoulder length red curls. To me, what is "natural" almost seems irrelevant considering how many things people do to change their appearance - including the stuff you're not going to take issue with like nice clothes, hair cuts, shaving, dental work, etc. And if I want to express that image of who I am, which is inline with the shorter, curly red hair rather than the light-brown, straight and down to my butt hair I would have if I kept it 100% natural, then that is in my mind a perfectly valid choice. If that is somehow a disappointment or a turn-off for you in a woman, it's fine with me. I'm not your woman :cwink: But whatever woman you might find for yourself in the future would probably find you too critical and quick to judge over the things she does for her appearance, because most women don't look at hair dye or minor cosmetic work as negatively as you do.
 
I was referring to very obvious changes. You should be a politician.

I've been told I'd make a great lawyer.

But seriously, thats a step in the right direction (some understanding.) If you only have a problem with very obvious changes, we're getting somewhere. That means if a woman only did things to improve her looks which weren't blatantly obvious, you wouldn't mind. Is this correct?

Perhaps you only mind tomato-red dye, as opposed to a more subtle color? :funny:
 
I'm pointing out that people use appearances as a form of self-expression. How you cut your hair and what color you make it and how you style it and what clothes you wear and what work (if any) you have done to yourself, it all has to do with projecting to the world an external image in line with your internal image. If I had blonde pigtails that would be a very different image to present to the world than shoulder length red curls. To me, what is "natural" almost seems irrelevant considering how many things people do to change their appearance - including the stuff you're not going to take issue with like nice clothes, hair cuts, shaving, dental work, etc. And if I want to express that image of who I am, which is inline with the shorter, curly red hair rather than the light-brown, straight and down to my butt hair I would have if I kept it 100% natural, then that is in my mind a perfectly valid choice. If that is somehow a disappointment or a turn-off for you in a woman, it's fine with me. I'm not your woman :cwink: But whatever woman you might find for yourself in the future would probably find you too critical and quick to judge over the things she does for her appearance, because most women don't look at hair dye or minor cosmetic work as negatively as you do.

My gf does find me somewhat critical to a point, but there's nothing wrong with that. I find her to be that way regarding other subjects as well and we get along just fine. Like I said, I don't PUSH MY VIEWS ON ANYONE.

Everyone has a problem with something. You obviously don't care much for collagen enhanced lips and have no qualms about expressing your dislike of actresses who change the shape and size of their mouth.

On a side note, full lips are fine and all, but Jolie's lips have an unusual shape to them don't they?

But yeah.. I guess you don't know what I mean.
 
I've been told I'd make a great lawyer.

But seriously, thats a step in the right direction (some understanding.) If you only have a problem with very obvious changes, we're getting somewhere. That means if a woman only did things to improve her looks which weren't blatantly obvious, you wouldn't mind. Is this correct?

Perhaps you only mind tomato-red dye, as opposed to a more subtle color? :funny:

Politicians tend to BS more. :cwink:

Changes women make to alter the way they look don't necessarily improve the way they look. Take Priscilla Presley, for example.

You're still not getting me. We might as well drop it.

Take it easy on those girls you consider to be "plastic" looking though, or some might find you a tad hypocritical. For someone who claims to be so very openminded about cosmetic surgery, you come down pretty hard on them.
 
Perhaps you only mind tomato-red dye, as opposed to a more subtle color? :funny:


Well, if you're going to change something that's minor, I question the point of doing it, unless you have some kind of said abnormality. I wouldn't make a fuss over it though. If you felt a need to constantly go for a nip and tuck, that would be the deal breaker though, especially if I think your appearance is just fine, as is.
 
Like I said, I don't PUSH MY VIEWS ON ANYONE.

Well thats good. :cwink:

Everyone has a problem with something. You obviously don't care much for collagen enhanced lips and have no qualms about expressing your dislike of actresses who change the shape and size of their mouth.

No, I don't have a problem with it, I was just saying it's not the sort of "fad thing" I would do, and the only example I can personally think of where people may be getting work done only because of a fashion trend/opinion of others, rather than what they personally thought. Because statistically there can't be that many women who wanted bigger lips until Jolie got to be so incredibly popular suddenly everyone wanted them. :oldrazz: But I believe the vast majority of women aren't getting cut and pasted over a trend or an off-hand comment somebody made about their looks, if they put themselves through the time, trouble and expense it's a personal issue and a matter of preference.

On a side note, full lips are fine and all, but Jolie's lips have an unusual shape to them don't they?

Slugs come to mind. But that's just MHO...

Politicians tend to BS more. :cwink:

What are you trying to say? :cmad:

Changes women make to alter the way they look don't necessarily improve the way they look. Take Priscilla Presley, for example.

Fully agreed there. And I think the problem is that you don't actually know of how common good cosmetic work is because you CANT SEE IT. Therefore you may have a negatively biased view of the idea because you only ever see the bad work because it's obvious.

I don't think people should do things to themselves that make them look worse of course. But if they do something not obvious that makes them look better, and not because of low self esteem or anyone elses opinion, but because they wanted to, more power to them.

Take it easy on those girls you consider to be "plastic" looking though, or some might find you a tad hypocritical. For someone who claims to be so very openminded about cosmetic surgery, you come down pretty hard on them.

Everyone agrees some people look way overdone, that doesn't have anything to do with my views on surgery in general. Just because Priscilla Presley and Joan Rivers have become caracatures of themselves doesn't mean the millions of people who opt for elective procedures are "plastic girls" or that there is anything wrong with their choice.
 
Well, if you're going to change something that's minor, I question the point of doing it, unless you have some kind of said abnormality.

There is something in female nature that causes most of us to be extremely detail oriented. Women are capable of caring about finding just the right shade of lipstick to match a blouse, and have literally hundreds of lipsticks on the bathroom counter when no one else would notice the difference anyway. You must be aware of this - and it's not an abnormality, it's our nature. Perhaps this once served some sort of evolutionary purpose... like picking out just the right red berries to eat or something.

I wouldn't make a fuss over it though. If you felt a need to constantly go for a nip and tuck, that would be the deal breaker though, especially if I think your appearance is just fine, as is.

Well I agree with you there. Anyone who needs CONSTANT surgery has a problem. Look, more agreement! I like it. :cwink:
 
No, I don't have a problem with it, I was just saying it's not the sort of "fad thing" I would do, and the only example I can personally think of where people may be getting work done only because of a fashion trend/opinion of others, rather than what they personally thought.

Isn't that where everything starts though? With a fad of some sort? Hair coloring included.
 
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