The Dark Knight The Rachel Dawes thread

[Majik1387]

Eh, I didn't see much of a difference from the character in terms of what she did. She pretty much has the same job and feelings towards Bruce from BB, but there was a lot more emotional complexities that Maggie gave to the character.

 

[believe_batman]

She never said she'd wait for Bruce in BB. They weren't dating, she moved on. She was conflicted enough to consider his proposal, but then seeing him let Dent take the fall, she realized Bruce needed to be Batman. There is a subtext there about Batman becoming the dominant persona and Bruce really is becoming nothing more than a mask and Rachel realized this and knew it was officially over. It doesn't make her a jerk. Why wait for someone who will NEVER be ready for a relationship?

As for making it more casual between Dent and Rachel, I disagree. That would not make it a good catalyst for Dent's anger if the girl he dated like twice gets killed as opposed to someone who became his fiance just seconds before.

I guess I'm old-fashioned, but I think a relationship can be serious without sleeping with someone. If they hadn't thrown in that line about "someone would know if I were out at night," I might have felt better about it. But, the fact that she is sleeping with him makes her seem... two-faced, for lack of a better term... for telling Bruce that she would wait for him, and be there if he stops being Batman. If she doesn't want to wait and loves Dent, fine, just don't deceive Bruce about it. I think you could portray it as a long-term, serious relationship without coming out and telling everyone they are sleeping together... in fact, the idea that she might NOT be sleeping with him and doesn't WANT to accept his proposal right away would provide more emotional depth and credibility to her supposed feelings for Bruce.

As it is, friends of mine - of all different moral backgrounds - just come out of the movie hating Rachel... as a spineless sycophant.

 

[The_Raganork]

I guess I'm old-fashioned, but I think a relationship can be serious without sleeping with someone. If they hadn't thrown in that line about "someone would know if I were out at night," I might have felt better about it. But, the fact that she is sleeping with him makes her seem... two-faced, for lack of a better term... for telling Bruce that she would wait for him, and be there if he stops being Batman. If she doesn't want to wait and loves Dent, fine, just don't deceive Bruce about it. I think you could portray it as a long-term, serious relationship without coming out and telling everyone they are sleeping together... in fact, the idea that she might NOT be sleeping with him and doesn't WANT to accept his proposal right away would provide more emotional depth and credibility to her supposed feelings for Bruce.

As it is, friends of mine - of all different moral backgrounds - just come out of the movie hating Rachel... as a spineless sycophant.

You're kidding me right?

Maybe you watched a different version...


FIRST

When she says what she says to Bruce at the end of Begins...Dent is not in the picture yet. After Dent does appear she loves them both; that line about "someone would notice me going out every night" doesn't mean they're sleeping together; rather an endearing to say about two people seeing each other. She IS dating Harvey, even Bruce says it. She just can't get over Bruce 100% yet, Bruce wants her to leave Harvey for him under the condition that he leave Batman behind. Not under the condition that that's what she really wants. She loves Bruce; but, he's never going to give up Batman and he's never going to be the same person he was when they grew up together. For her to pick Harvey is not two faced...this kiss in the movie was a moment of Weakness.

I never felt she would pick Bruce; I felt she loved him; but, I felt that she would be with Harvey.

 

[believe_batman]

You're kidding me right?

Maybe you watched a different version...

I don't hate her in the movie, just not a fan of the changes to the character. I'm telling you what friends who went to the movie with me thought... trying to explain a reaction you might see from people who've seen it. She's not quite a spineless sychophant, but I'm not a fan.

I'm not talking about the statement she makes to Bruce at the end of Begins. That's in there, too, but the really incrimnating one is the statement she makes at the party, and in the note... that she would be there if he could ever let go of Batman. If she really believe he won't let go, and that's why she's pursuing Dent and sleeping with him, she should just say, "I'm no longer interested in you" instead of leading Bruce along... and making Alfred hide her secret to make her seem less like the jerk she really was to Bruce after her death.

EDIT: I wish you were right about the line not meaning they were sleeping together, but Batman does his work in the middle of the night, usually. I don't see how he could have been talking about "she'd notice me leaving dinner parties and movies that we go to together."

 

[obiwan]

i dont want to say im GLAD she died, but the character just never worked and im pretty sure thats why nolan decided to blow her up. i hope that if they have another female lead in #3, it wont be such a bland stupid lame fugly lookin character like rachel dawes.

 

[LostSon88]

I'm not talking about the statement she makes to Bruce at the end of Begins. That's in there, too, but the really incrimnating one is the statement she makes at the party, and in the note... that she would be there if he could ever let go of Batman. If she really believe he won't let go, and that's why she's pursuing Dent and sleeping with him, she should just say, "I'm no longer interested in you" instead of leading Bruce along... and making Alfred hide her secret to make her seem less like the jerk she really was to Bruce after her death.

At the party when Bruce talked to her, she really began to believe that Bruce was ready to give up Batman. That was once again enforced when she was hiding out in his penthouse when he willingly planned to reveal himself and turn himself in.

She was still interested in Bruce until she came to the realization that he will never be rid of Batman. The fact that he let Harvey take the fall (in her eyes) cemented that fact, hence why she finally made a decision that Harvey...not Bruce is the one for her.

 

[LostSon88]

i dont want to say im GLAD she died, but the character just never worked and im pretty sure thats why nolan decided to blow her up. i hope that if they have another female lead in #3, it wont be such a bland stupid lame fugly lookin character like rachel dawes.

:cough: Talia Al Guhl :cough:

 

[mikey09]

i dont want to say im GLAD she died, but the character just never worked and im pretty sure thats why nolan decided to blow her up. i hope that if they have another female lead in #3, it wont be such a bland stupid lame fugly lookin character like rachel dawes.

He blow her up because it progressed the story, but because she is a bland stupid lame fugly character as you put

 

[obiwan]

He blow her up because it progressed the story, but because she is a bland stupid lame fugly character as you put

LOL, yeah pretty much! at least it had reprucussions though, its not like she just died and that was that. dent went crazy because of her death.

but i cant believe it actually happened that way, i made really bad Paint photo with cartoony joker pointing a gun at katie holmes and i titled it "BB2: Rachal dies". 3 years later, i was right! shoulda kept that photo.

 

[Majik1387]

Why? You were not the only one who was saying that she'd die in this one. Even from 3 years ago ppl were saying that she'd die.

 

[ross2287]

Maggie was spunky... you really think Holmes would have kicked the Joker... nope

She would have slapped him twice with a stupid smirk on her face and then Joker would have promptly cut her up.

 

[Raiden]

She would have slapped him twice with a stupid smirk on her face and then Joker would have promptly cut her up.

Yeah, I don't think Katie would've stood up against Joker as convincingly as Maggie did in that scene.

 

[obiwan]

maggie looked and acted like a guy. aha.

 

[saberewok]

Maggie as Rachel was bad as well as her face. I saw no chemistry with her and Bale either. I must say Katie did so much better even when she was
given little to do. The love triangle would have flowed too if it was by Bale,Holmes and Eckhart.

 

[Crook]

In terms of chemistry, I don't really think it's either of the actresses' fault.

 

[AIRWOLF]

I'm glad she died, she seemed so conflicted within herself. She's going for Bruce and Harvey, make up your mind lady. More importantly why is that she wants Bruce to give up being Batman, a guy is trying to do something nice for the city and she is like "if you want me, give up the mantle of Batman!?" It's like Bruce asking Rachel to give up her job, would she do it...no.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Katie Holmes was terrible in BB but to be fair she had to contend with bad writing. Maggie was tons better but the character just isn't that great, I'm glad she's gone, Batman can move on to more interesting chicks.

 

[Leenie]

In terms of chemistry, I don't really think it's either of the actresses' fault.

Agreed! Rachel Dawes annoys me because of the way the character was written, not because of the acting ... And I like Maggie Gyllenhaal as an actress overall.

Rachel is just ... So self-righteous. I can't stand people who are like that in real life, so why would I like a character like that? Oh well, the lack of chemistry could have been intentional, showing that she and Bruce were really never meant to be.

I think it's great that Rachel died because a) I never liked her character anyway, and b) she finally became important to the progression of the story.

 

[Two-Face]

I actually cared about Maggie G as Rachel a lot better than Katie Holmes.

Oh I'm glad I wasn't spoiled while I was on here few times.

 

[Laderlappen]

There are still some people that think katie was better even after watching the movie?! Wow, people are dumb. And REALLY sexist around here.

 

[Johnny Drama]

I think Maggie/Katie is a matter of opinion, Laderlappen.
Maggie really didn't step it up much to deserve what little praise she recieved, People just hated Katie that much.

 

[DACrowe]

Fans don't want women in their comic book movies unless they are wearing skin tight costumes or walking around in rainstorms.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Wasn't Bruce the one who actually kissed her, not the other way around?

 

[nocomics]

I really did'nt care for the actor who played Rachel and how she looked. As one poster said she looked old,and I did'nt think she had any charisma to add to the character. She reminded me of McFly's mother in Back to the Future
It was just a bad choice of actress's to play this role,I'd rather have the original actress for this.

 

[Star]

Except everyone in the world hates Katie Holmes, so thats enough of that.