The Dark Knight The Rachel Dawes thread

[BatmanFanatic]

hahaha. you forgot to mention you were an indie filmaker too.

and half this board is artistic. i am so sick of people dropping that. get over it. i run an art gallery and i think maggie is good looking. who cares?

The reason I didn't say I was an indi film-maker, is because I'm not an indi film-maker. What I am is a film enthusiast and someone who will be going to film school to EVENTUALLY become an indi-film maker when I get out, after my fine art degree is finished in 3 weeks.

 

[CaptainClown]

The reason I didn't say I was an indi film-maker, is because I'm not an indi film-maker. What I am is a film enthusiast and someone who will be going to film school to EVENTUALLY become an indi-film maker when I get out, after my fine art degree is finished in 3 weeks.

I have my doctrine in art, have created over 300 films. Have played bass for Pink Floyd and took drugs with the Beatles. I am the one who told Andy to paint the campbell soup can and I am the one who told Bowie to create Ziggy Stardust. I have been on 2 space missions one for NASA and one for Russia. I killed JFK with my magic bullet and trained Kobe in the ways of basketball..


not to toot my own horn though, it just proves that what I say matters more then all of yours...

 

[Crook]

Let's actually address valid points, people.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I have my doctrine in art, have created over 300 films. Have played bass for Pink Floyd and took drugs with the Beatles. I am the one who told Andy to paint the campbell soup can and I am the one who told Bowie to create Ziggy Stardust. I have been on 2 space missions one for NASA and one for Russia. I killed JFK with my magic bullet and trained Kobe in the ways of basketball..

not to toot my own horn though, it just proves that what I say matters more then all of yours...

Tooting a horn? That's what you call me making it clear to everyone that I'm NOT a film-maker? Well, sorry to offend you with my honesty in what I have, and have not accomplished. I'm sure that in your world those kind of frank and open statements deserve massive, sarcastic backlashes, as you have made clear.

Interesting that you mention Audrey Hepburn. See.. these days we look upon her as this legendary actress, but in her day she wasn't considered to be in the same league as Liz Taylor, Marilyn Monroe or the aforementioned Grace Kelly. Audrey was definitely not your conventional beauty.

She said it herself actually:

"I'm certainly not beautiful in any conventional way. I didn't make my career on beauty."

If you want to call Maggie's looks controversial, then she has something in common with the great Ms. Hepburn.

One of these things is not like the other.
​

 

[CaptainClown]

Tooting a horn? That's what you call me making it clear to everyone that I'm NOT a film-maker? Well, sorry to offend you with my honesty in what I have, and have not accomplished. I'm sure that in your world those kind of frank and open statements deserve massive, sarcastic backlashes, as you have made clear.

No it has nothing to do with you being a film-maker. You could be one, or couldn't be one I still would have said it. It has to do with using credentials on the internet. It is about showing no modesty and citing things you have done, done or will do as a reason why we should listen to you.

This is not the first time you have done it, but it seems redundant to say all these things which can not be contested since it is the internet. It doesn't make your argument any greater just makes you sound like someone who is self absorbed and wants people to congratulate you on your accomplishments. It is like saying your name and always listing your degrees afterwards.
-end of line

 

[BatmanFanatic]

No it has nothing to do with you being a film-maker. You could be one, or couldn't be one I still would have said it. It has to do with using credentials on the internet. It is about showing no modesty and citing things you have done, done or will do as a reason why we should listen to you.

This is not the first time you have done it, but it seems redundant to say all these things which can not be contested since it is the internet. It doesn't make your argument any greater just makes you sound like someone who is self absorbed and wants people to congratulate you on your accomplishments. It is like saying your name and always listing your degrees afterwards.
-end of line

Well I'm going to disagree with you (surprise) and point out that just because someone mentions their personal experiences and background, does not mean that they are seeking applause or attention for it. They're just stating where they are coming from, and on what basis they are forming their opinion.

I could care less about what you think of my art degree or anyone else for that matter. I certainly dont consider it big social currency to have an art degree - in the US having an art degree is like one step above janitor or something.

I don't know why you CHOOSE to read intentions which are not there in people you don't know. It's clearly your problem, not mine if you don't like me mentioning what experiences are influencing my opinions!

 

[Crook]

It would have been more poignant for both parties to instead discuss the merits of aesthetics in the art realm, and how beauty is generally characterized and admired.

But don't mind lil' Crook!

 

[BatmanFanatic]

It would have been more poignant for both parties to instead discuss the merits of aesthetics in the art realm, and how beauty is generally characterized and admired.

Well that goes without saying doesn't it? I mean, who sits around admiring ugliness, writing sonnets in it's name? t:

Hey, actually back to Rachel Dawes though, I heard about a wicked idea... now, disclaimer, I am completely positive this is %100 not going to happen, but given Maggies hyper personality (IRL) and her girlish voice, I thought the idea was very amusing and fitting...

Well the idea was that Rachel/Maggie, wasn't [BLACKOUT]killed [/BLACKOUT] by Mr J but instead [BLACKOUT] kidnapped, warped and twisted by him, until she emerged in the 3rd part film as Harley Quinn!!!![/BLACKOUT]

I know they'll never do it, but I was rather tickled by the idea. Maggie could really pull off the character because she'd have far more to work with in that character than damsel-in-distress-Rachel, and it would kind of be like Secretary only without the S&M bits, and with a lot more giggling and cartwheels on her part, the way I picture it.

Also, what better way to [BLACKOUT]shatter Dents hopes for their future and earn Waynes hatred by Mr J? [/BLACKOUT] It would also be perfect for the classic Nolan twist... what it could be is that the audience actually thinks [BLACKOUT] Rachel has been killed by Mr J by being pushed off the building, but instead she returns in part III as Harley and you get a flashback sequence of how Mr J twists her and warps her mind. [/BLACKOUT]

 

[CaptainClown]

Well I'm going to disagree with you (surprise) and point out that just because someone mentions their personal experiences and background, does not mean that they are seeking applause or attention for it. They're just stating where they are coming from, and on what basis they are forming their opinion.

I could care less about what you think of my art degree or anyone else for that matter. I certainly dont consider it big social currency to have an art degree - in the US having an art degree is like one step above janitor or something.

I don't know why you CHOOSE to read intentions which are not there in people you don't know. It's clearly your problem, not mine if you don't like me mentioning what experiences are influencing my opinions!

A person does not always want attention when they say something like that this is true, however this is not the case. However saying you have one or any other great accomplishment can not be verified so I don't see how it is valid. If it does not have any worth as a point of credibility, or "expert" opinion on the matter then what else? To get attention from others? Possibly.

I can choose to read intentions as you can choose to write your resume down with each post. I want to find the reason for posting your credentials, it is odd and uncommon and reminds me of the people who "reluctantly" want to post their pictures only to hear praise from other online people to boost their ego; but thats not you. You want to give us background to your choices. If it is indeed that, then that still would mean that you are shooting for some credibility in your degree which would affect your opinion rather then stating a reason.

As you so finely put it this is the internet and doing so makes no sense to me, I seek to learn oh teach me.

 

[doctorkenyon]

Well that goes without saying doesn't it? I mean, who sits around admiring ugliness, writing sonnets in it's name? t:

Hey, actually back to Rachel Dawes though, I heard about a wicked idea... now, disclaimer, I am completely positive this is %100 not going to happen, but given Maggies hyper personality (IRL) and her girlish voice, I thought the idea was very amusing and fitting...

Well the idea was that Rachel/Maggie, wasn't [blackout]killed [/blackout] by Mr J but instead [blackout] kidnapped, warped and twisted by him, until she emerged in the 3rd part film as Harley Quinn!!!![/blackout]

I know they'll never do it, but I was rather tickled by the idea. Maggie could really pull off the character because she'd have far more to work with in that character than damsel-in-distress-Rachel, and it would kind of be like Secretary only without the S&M bits, and with a lot more giggling and cartwheels on her part, the way I picture it.

Also, what better way to [blackout]shatter Dents hopes for their future and earn Waynes hatred by Mr J? [/blackout] It would also be perfect for the classic Nolan twist... what it could be is that the audience actually thinks [blackout] Rachel has been killed by Mr J by being pushed off the building, but instead she returns in part III as Harley and you get a flashback sequence of how Mr J twists her and warps her mind. [/blackout]

That's a really messed up and pretty interesting idea. Having said that, I don't really like it, sorry.

I can't really put my finger on why, but I just wouldn't want to see that on film.

 

[Laderlappen]

Rachel was completely unforgettable though. I guarantee no one can even recall what she looks like, unless you're a Batman fan.

I disagree. And even if many would forget her, you cant think that way. You cant think "Lets change the look and character of Rachel. No one will notice". Thats something we would see in an Ed Wood movie.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

that is shocking because i measure beauty on a scale of one to audrey hepburn.

WHoahh those are some high standards!

 

[BatmanFanatic]

A person does not always want attention when they say something like that this is true, however this is not the case. However saying you have one or any other great accomplishment can not be verified so I don't see how it is valid. If it does not have any worth as a point of credibility, or "expert" opinion on the matter then what else? To get attention from others? Possibly.

I can choose to read intentions as you can choose to write your resume down with each post. I want to find the reason for posting your credentials, it is odd and uncommon and reminds me of the people who "reluctantly" want to post their pictures only to hear praise from other online people to boost their ego; but thats not you. You want to give us background to your choices. If it is indeed that, then that still would mean that you are shooting for some credibility in your degree which would affect your opinion rather then stating a reason.

As you so finely put it this is the internet and doing so makes no sense to me, I seek to learn oh teach me.

Whatever. I find even the idea of lying about having an art degree to "impress" strangers on the internet hilarious, as I have spent years being *laughed at* for choosing to major in art, rather than something "sensible." I don't consider having an art degree as anything I would get lots of praise and admiration for, if I was basing my choices on wanting praise and admiration, I'd have tried for an ivy league degree in something a lot more "socially impressive," and if I was going to lie about the education I have in order to be flattered, I'd come up with a much better lie.

Maybe you feel insecure or somehow insulted if you have that strong of a response to someone simply mentioning their background when it relates to the question/debate at hand -- I don't start every post with "guess what, I have an art degree, so I'm an expert in Batman." But if we're going to be talking about faces and beauty, and I happen to have majored in oil painting and my specialty is portraits, I think that is both interesting and relevant in informing my opinion. Doesn't make my opinion absolute and correct, everyone is entitled to their own opinion regardless, but it does give a little more credibility to what I might think about facial proportions given what I have learned in portraiture classes than the average person on the street, so take it or leave it, but I for one can't understand why you have such a problem with someone stating their background.

I can't imagine how you are around people who introduce themselves as Dr.So and So. Do you immediately rip into them for "trying to impress everyone with their medical degree, by mentioning it all the time" ?

 

[Mr. Superhero]

Well that goes without saying doesn't it? I mean, who sits around admiring ugliness, writing sonnets in it's name? t:

Hey, actually back to Rachel Dawes though, I heard about a wicked idea... now, disclaimer, I am completely positive this is %100 not going to happen, but given Maggies hyper personality (IRL) and her girlish voice, I thought the idea was very amusing and fitting...

Well the idea was that Rachel/Maggie, wasn't [blackout]killed [/blackout] by Mr J but instead [blackout] kidnapped, warped and twisted by him, until she emerged in the 3rd part film as Harley Quinn!!!![/blackout]

I know they'll never do it, but I was rather tickled by the idea. Maggie could really pull off the character because she'd have far more to work with in that character than damsel-in-distress-Rachel, and it would kind of be like Secretary only without the S&M bits, and with a lot more giggling and cartwheels on her part, the way I picture it.

Also, what better way to [blackout]shatter Dents hopes for their future and earn Waynes hatred by Mr J? [/blackout] It would also be perfect for the classic Nolan twist... what it could be is that the audience actually thinks [blackout] Rachel has been killed by Mr J by being pushed off the building, but instead she returns in part III as Harley and you get a flashback sequence of how Mr J twists her and warps her mind. [/blackout]

It'd be a pretty cool twist for the third film, but I'm sure this Joker doesn't give a crap about having some girlfriend mope around during his crimes. He cares about one thing: killing the Batman.

 

[xero1186]

Well that goes without saying doesn't it? I mean, who sits around admiring ugliness, writing sonnets in it's name? t:

Hey, actually back to Rachel Dawes though, I heard about a wicked idea... now, disclaimer, I am completely positive this is %100 not going to happen, but given Maggies hyper personality (IRL) and her girlish voice, I thought the idea was very amusing and fitting...

Well the idea was that Rachel/Maggie, wasn't [blackout]killed [/blackout] by Mr J but instead [blackout] kidnapped, warped and twisted by him, until she emerged in the 3rd part film as Harley Quinn!!!![/blackout]

I know they'll never do it, but I was rather tickled by the idea. Maggie could really pull off the character because she'd have far more to work with in that character than damsel-in-distress-Rachel, and it would kind of be like Secretary only without the S&M bits, and with a lot more giggling and cartwheels on her part, the way I picture it.

Also, what better way to [blackout]shatter Dents hopes for their future and earn Waynes hatred by Mr J? [/blackout] It would also be perfect for the classic Nolan twist... what it could be is that the audience actually thinks [blackout] Rachel has been killed by Mr J by being pushed off the building, but instead she returns in part III as Harley and you get a flashback sequence of how Mr J twists her and warps her mind. [/blackout]

It would be more entertaining to see rachel die and that's the end of her. Its bad enough this character some how made it into the sequel. I think tyring to put her in a third movie would just be a bad move.

sorry, not a big fan of this idea.

 

[Alex414]

Batman will probably save her at the last possible second and then contend with the Joker, IMHO.

Going back to Rachel, she's, in a way, somewhat the heroine but also Bruce's hope for some normalcy in his life, but of course, who knows what will really happen. Damn shame Katie decided not to reprise.

 

[Swordmaster]

It'd be awesomely hilarious if, after Joker drops Rachel, she lands on a pile of mattresses just sitting there randomly. She sighs in relief, and then the mattresses explode.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

It'd be awesomely hilarious if, after Joker drops Rachel, she lands on a pile of mattresses just sitting there randomly. She sighs in relief, and then the mattresses explode.

Wow, I would DIE laughing. Thats the best idea yet! Thumbs up! =) t:

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I disagree. And even if many would forget her, you cant think that way. You cant think "Lets change the look and character of Rachel. No one will notice". Thats something we would see in an Ed Wood movie.

Yah but it's not like it was their choice that Katie said no, so that she could instead do MAD MONEY. If you ever needed another reason to dislike Katie ... add HORRIBLE career choices to the list. *shakes head* It's so unprofessional of her to back out of a recurring character in a huge series in order to get higher billing. I guess karma paid her back by the God-awful reviews the film got and the way it totally tanked at the box office.

===

That's a really messed up and pretty interesting idea. Having said that, I don't really like it, sorry.

I can't really put my finger on why, but I just wouldn't want to see that on film.

Hey, just putting it out there. I didn't come up with the idea so I can't take the credit.

It'd be a pretty cool twist for the third film, but I'm sure this Joker doesn't give a crap about having some girlfriend mope around during his crimes. He cares about one thing: killing the Batman.

Well, I grant you THIS version of Joker doesn't care about the gf, but I find the versions of Joker written by Dini to be equally valid.

It would be more entertaining to see rachel die and that's the end of her. Its bad enough this character some how made it into the sequel. I think tyring to put her in a third movie would just be a bad move.

sorry, not a big fan of this idea.

Well I don't like the Rachel character and wish they would have used an established woman from the Batverse, but if she has to be in all the films, or if we see her in the 3rd film at all, I would be a lot more amused by this aulternative because at least it brings in a character everyone enjoys.

But like I said, it wasn't my idea so I can't take the credit or the blame.

 

[CaptainClown]

Whatever. I find even the idea of lying about having an art degree to "impress" strangers on the internet hilarious, as I have spent years being *laughed at* for choosing to major in art, rather than something "sensible." I don't consider having an art degree as anything I would get lots of praise and admiration for, if I was basing my choices on wanting praise and admiration, I'd have tried for an ivy league degree in something a lot more "socially impressive," and if I was going to lie about the education I have in order to be flattered, I'd come up with a much better lie.

Maybe you feel insecure or somehow insulted if you have that strong of a response to someone simply mentioning their background when it relates to the question/debate at hand -- I don't start every post with "guess what, I have an art degree, so I'm an expert in Batman." But if we're going to be talking about faces and beauty, and I happen to have majored in oil painting and my specialty is portraits, I think that is both interesting and relevant in informing my opinion. Doesn't make my opinion absolute and correct, everyone is entitled to their own opinion regardless, but it does give a little more credibility to what I might think about facial proportions given what I have learned in portraiture classes than the average person on the street, so take it or leave it, but I for one can't understand why you have such a problem with someone stating their background.

I can't imagine how you are around people who introduce themselves as Dr.So and So. Do you immediately rip into them for "trying to impress everyone with their medical degree, by mentioning it all the time" ?

Yes you do and have started posts with that in the beginning, maybe I am insecure about my own accomplishments, or you want to be looked at favorably as someone who is doing a lot and despite what you think in certain circles degrees count. Also there you go again painting your story out to be like a hero. "everyone laughed at my major" but that is something else

I don't see how giving your background, every time can help us understand your choice of opinion. It is like when talking about acting saying you did a bunch of theater works in high school so you know what you are talking about. I want to understand why you can not simply say Maggies face is not proportional and here is a picture of how a face should look (post picture of an anatomy sketching picture) vs. I took a portrait class and her face isn't proportioned correctly. Also again their is no way to prove you actually took the class we just again have to take your word for it since you are using it as evidence why so and so is a certain way and why you feel strongly about it. But using it constantly takes away the credibility of it.

Now my problem with someone stating their background is not true. I have a problem when someone always talks about their background, whenever a subject comes up they talk about their background before their answer. My problem with it is that it is coming off as wanting attention and I am calling you out on it because you are notorious for doing it. I have also a problem with doctors who find it necessary to give phds ba's and whatever after their name. Yes I have a problem with that because every ******* I knew that did that was a yuppie ******* that just liked to talk about them.

So in my BACKGROUND people who have given their BACKGROUND every time we talked have proven to be conceited asses.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Yes you do and have started posts with that in the beginning, maybe I am insecure about my own accomplishments, or you want to be looked at favorably as someone who is doing a lot and despite what you think in certain circles degrees count. Also there you go again painting your story out to be like a hero. "everyone laughed at my major" but that is something else
...
So in my BACKGROUND people who have given their BACKGROUND every time we talked have proven to be conceited asses.

You're just projecting what you think onto my statements and it has nothing to do with what I said, or how I actually am - whether humble or conceited - you've just jumped to a rash conclusion based on YOUR background, read into what I said what wasnt there and added meaning I never put into my words.

When you talk about degrees counting in certain circles, I can tell you with complete certainty that in those circles ART DEGREES do NOT count, and I have a hard time believing you're not aware of this social fact. If everyone is standing around at a party bragging about their degrees, you can be damn sure I won't be mentioning I'm an art major, it's not going to impress anyone. I didn't get the degree to impress people. No one goes out and gets an art degree so they can "impress someone" - the only people who bother to get art degrees are people really, and perhaps unreasonably, obsessed with art. Which to some people might be admirable, but to most people, it's just a foolish thing to do - which is what the majority of people that I've dealt with think. Anyone with an art degree can tell you that people respect your degree about as much as toilet paper when it comes to getting a job or any kind of bragging rights. Now you're probably going to accuse me of telling some kind of "sob story for sympathy" just because I'm stating certain facts about our culture. I'm not, and I don't care, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous your accusations are. It's like when people say that Obama is ONLY WINNING because he's black! *shakes head* Because (insert sarcasm here) eeeeeveryonen knows that being black just makes it soooooo easy to become the US president! Just like eeeeveryone knows that people get ART degrees to impress people at cocktail parties with how incredibly brilliant they must be in order to have managed passing those strenuous art classes! I mean, I must be some sort of Einstein to have managed to get through it all! *shakes head*

And as for making myself sound heroic? Sure... Yah, that's what I think, I'm so heroic ... I don't think that taking $#!t over my choice of major is heroic, I think it's annoying. And if it were up to me I would certainly change the cultural attitude to have respect towards careers that aren't doctors, lawyers and engineers.

 

[Pho3nix]

Seeing her in the newest trailer has only given more growth to my contempt for her. I really don't like the way she looks and speaks.

Some actors/actresses just aren't meant to play certain roles. And I believe this is a role that Ms. Gyllenhaal doesn't fit into. I'm not saying that Katie Holmes is much better, but I definitely preferred her. I wish they had chosen someone else, right now I can't think of any other candidates though.

Just my $0.02

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Seeing her in the newest trailer has only given more growth to my contempt for her. I really don't like the way she looks and speaks.

Some actors/actresses just aren't meant to play certain roles. And I believe this is a role that Ms. Gyllenhaal doesn't fit into. I'm not saying that Katie Holmes is much better, but I definitely preferred her. I wish they had chosen someone else, right now I can't think of any other candidates though.

Just my $0.02

I'm reserving final judgement until I see her in the film, but I just don't think she looks like the right girl for Bruce to be pining over. They should be the same age too, she looks older.

Oh well, what can we do about it now. Just bad casting.

 

[Crook]

I disagree. And even if many would forget her, you cant think that way. You cant think "Lets change the look and character of Rachel. No one will notice". Thats something we would see in an Ed Wood movie.

You don't find the sudden change from wholesome little teenager, to full-fledged woman, any more different?

 

[CaptainClown]

You're just projecting what you think onto my statements and it has nothing to do with what I said, or how I actually am - whether humble or conceited - you've just jumped to a rash conclusion based on YOUR background, read into what I said what wasnt there and added meaning I never put into my words.

And as for making myself sound heroic? Sure... Yah, that's what I think, I'm so heroic ... I don't think that taking $#!t over my choice of major is heroic, I think it's annoying. And if it were up to me I would certainly change the cultural attitude to have respect towards careers that aren't doctors, lawyers and engineers.

I will agree though haha I dunno what circles find the art degree worthwhile. It is only a joke because most people in artistic industries don't have a degree in it and are entirely successful. Are you wanting to be a museum curator or something?

Now back onto our argument. How is my background any less valid then yours now? Since you are using backgrounds as a way of expressing opinion, how is it that my opinion with my background is less then your degrees and classes? There are a majority of people who cite their background onto subjects, like I have said before, however most posts is excessive and that is why I shined my light on you for doing it.

How is my conclusion rash? This is since you first came here. Should I keep a track of all your posts and cite and reference every time you did it? The way it is presented has had a snide condescending way of wording things.

This is just going to go back and forth isn't it? You win I'm an ass I'm tired of typing.