The Rank and Rate Man of Steel thread

[topdog1]

Certain fans are kidding themselves here.

4/10

Even watching this film with lower expectations, I’m still stunned at how bad it turned out. It’s at least 3/4 of an extremely shallow and ineptly written mess. This reboot made the same mistakes that Amazing Spider-Man made in terms of its supporting cast. Every single one of them are one dimensional and barely even register. They completely wasted Ma and Pa Kent, Perry White, Jor-el and (the biggest crime of all) Lois Lane. Thus, they completely wasted stellar talent and an amazing cast. Everything felt cut and honestly plays like it was written by a teenager. That low level is what surprises me, not that the story itself is lacking like all the critics are saying.

What is also a major surprise is how the super-powered action falls flat. To me, that’s the real disappointment here. There’s no variety. The only time I was pulled out of the monotone video game type action was to notice just how many people were being slaughtered at every turn. We’re talking MASSIVE civilian and military casualties from explosions, planes crashing and buildings crumbling. That was jarring to me and took away from what should have been the coolness factor. (On a side note, why exactly did 7-11 and Sears pay to be put in a film where it’s obvious that their customers and employees were killed just for being in those places of business?)

Overall, this is simply a flat out disappointment devoid of any real fun.

 

[Rowsdower!]

10/10

It will take me a while to work out just where it fits into my top 5 superhero films, but for now, here they are, in no particular order:

Man of Steel
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight
The Avengers
Superman '78

 

[CK17]

9/10

Had a few issues with it, but all in all a great start to hopefully a slew of DC franchises.

 

[jaqua99]

^

I'd give it a sold 8/10.

The action was great. I felt the Lois lane stuff was very weak...the pacing was fine. However the first half of the movie was slow, and there was too much jumping around. Some of the action was great....acting was solidd, not great, but solid.

Overall, it was exactly what I expected it. 8/10

 

[davejames]

Certain fans are kidding themselves here.

The movie obviously didn't work for you (and a lot of critics), but that doesn't mean 70% of the people here giving it a high score are kidding themselves. We've all had plenty of movies we wanted to love but were disappointed in (Phantom Menace anyone?), so I don't think you can boil it down to that either.

The movie's definitely done in a very different style and tone from the typical superhero movie though, and does have a slightly odd structure, so I can understand why not everyone is going to respond well to it.

 

[davejames]

My Top 5 ranking:

Superman the Movie
The Dark Knight
Man of Steel
Superman II
Spider-Man 2


My Top Superman movies:

Superman the Movie (what can I say, I actually like the campy humor!)
Man of Steel
Superman II
Superman Returns

 

[BenKenobi]

The movie obviously didn't work for you (and a lot of critics), but that doesn't mean 70% of the people here giving it a high score are kidding themselves. We've all had plenty of movies we wanted to love but were disappointed in (Phantom Menace anyone?), so I don't think you can boil it down to that either.

No it really does. I went into a full theater on opening day, no applause, no laughs, and a lot of new empty seats when the lights came. This is just one sample of a general audience. The big Phantom Menace defense is that the people who dislike were hardcore fans, I can't even begin to grasp the concept of the way DC continuity works and my friends don't care for comics and no one really liked it. Everyone I've talked to that's said good things about it said so in the same way I praised Spider-Man 3 and X-Men the Last Stand, really confused and hoping to make myself like them.

Anyway my rating

5/10

Krypton
The movie makes it's first mistake by starting off on Krypton. The tactic of dropping the audience into the middle of a developing story is nothing new, but nothing that was going on made any sense. Jor-El is swimming through an underwater baby farm, apparently he and Laura were the first people to have sex in centuries, and the whole world looks like a bad knock off of Pandora from Avatar. It's the same mistake Green Lantern made, they don't ease the audience into their suspension of disbelief.

Tone
This I attribute 150% to Christopher Nolan. The reason the general audiences were okay with Iron Man 3 was because despite it's less than perfect story, it in no way too itself too seriously. This movie has a very hokie story and a very dark serious tone that severely inhibits your ability to suspend your disbelief. There's just so much weight, so much gravity on everything going on that it makes the plot holes stand out like a soar thumb. Not to mention how many stupid things they try to make look serious like Kryptonians riding around on flying Lizards or Clark playing hide and go seek with Russell Crowe.

The Plot Holes
A movie that takes itself so seriously needs to have a serious story. It's like me taking a powerpoint I made in 10th grade and presenting it as if I'm Steve Jobs unveiling the iPhone. There are so many places that make you question the characters judgement as well just overall moments of complete stupidity that the movie implodes in on itself. For one thing why didn't Jor-El shoot Zod when he shot everyone else who attacked him? Why was Lois not wearing gloves or a hood when they made a point to say it was -40 outside? Why did Clark let his dad die for him in the Tornado? Why did they kill off Jonathan Kent in order to save the DOG!? Why did Superman feel remorse killing Zod, when he probably killed more people throwing Ursa into that gas station which clearly had cars in it? Why did Superman feel it was necessary to kill Zod to save the three extras, but not when he ten's of thousands of people with his planet engine or from their fights? Why didn't Zod's henchman, kidnap Martha Kent like they did Lois? Why did they want Lois again? Superman has to save Lois from certain doom so he does the slowest most over dramatic backwards dive out of the spaceship? Why didn't Perry White evacuate right away? I could go on but it's too frustrating.

Anyway Man of Steel is probably a little below Spider-Man 3 but a little bit above Superman Returns.

 

[ares834]

Most of those aren't plot holes...

 

[G.Godfrey]

I'm giving it a generous 8 for to me it feels like a comic book unfolding on the big screen. Literally. The way the scenes are edited together and the length of some of them, the structure of the film it's basically like flipping pages and going through the panels of a comic book. The story has the same holes and simplicity of that of a GN or a mini series and the script is as thin written as if Goyer had speech bubbles in mind while writing it. And it was revealed Snyder storyboards every single frame so yeah. This only occurred to me after my 3rd viewing when I went through a few comics after I got home. Now I can't unsee it. In a way MOS literally defines the term "comic book movie" for me - for better or worse (more latter than the former). Goyer can go on and on about how they approached it not as a comic book movie because the only thing they did was film it handheld and gave it a somber naturalistic look to it. Doesn't fool me.

Moving on from that point, the things I liked and think the movie did great with:

1. Krypton (loved it)
2. All Smallville flashbacks minus the Tornado sequence (I will NEVER EVER like that unforgivingly stupid scene)
2. The entire part in Black Zero and in particular the "dream sequence"
3. Ending montage (perfect)
4. Visuals/The score
5. Action/Battles (unsurpassed as of yet)
6. All performances, particularly Cavills

Things I felt were mediocre and felt indifferent towards:

1. Story - It's only ok. Basic origin story. A lot of potential but not realized.
2. The snap - Didn't really affect me, because I spoiled myself days before seeing the film so I was prepared. It was ok in execution and I can forgive and forget even though it's stupid and lazy writing.

The bad:

1. Editing/Pacing
2. Script - I am now convinced that Goyer is a hack. Can't believe I was saying that he couldn't possibly write a script that isn't at least as good as his first draft of Begins. Hint: MOS's was not. The structure and dialogue killed it, as well as the lack of depth in the themes it tried to convey and lack of character.

The editing and script issues mostly go hand in hand. Not in the mood to comment more on this right now. Besides I'm sure most of it has been said already so I'm not sure how much I can contribute at this point.

If I were to rate it purely objectively as a movie movie (if you get what I mean), I'd give it a 6.5 or 7/10. When it's good it's REALLY good, in some scenes it's literally the best superhero movie ever made. Too bad that as a whole it doesn't work nearly as well.

Though I still think it's not being judged entirely fairly by the critics (though I'm past caring at this point) especially since I've read most of the negative reviews and 40% of them don't even focus on the issues of the actual film but dislike due to it not being what they think a Superman movie should be. Also, if you claim that higher rated movies like Thor, Captain America, TASM or The Incredible Hulk are actually better than MOS, I will debate it till the cows come home and beyond, because they are not. Therefore I believe MOS deserves an 8 inside it's genre. Which is what I voted it. I was really hoping this would be in the same class as Batman Begins and Iron Man but it's not. It's in the group with the before mentioned movies only difference is MOS has more action and a bigger scope.

And as someone who isn't a big fan of the Donnerverse, S:TM is still the best Superman movie. The storytelling is better, the structure of the movie is better and there is actual emotion and personality inside it, something that I feel is missing with MOS. MOS tries to convey and have that, but it mostly falls flat. And it's mostly the scripts fault.

And unlike many, I was not bothered by the destruction. It was slightly overdone but I remember countless and countless times I and many others said and asked when if ever are we going to see something the JLU or the STAS or the comic book type action portrayed in live action. Now we got it and I won't complain. Fact is Zod was about to pretty much wipe out the entire human race and the only choice Superman (a rookie Superman mind you) had was to fight him to stop him - AT ALL COSTS. That's just how it is. And if you think Superman could just control the flow of things the entire time or redirect the fight to any which direction he wanted then you clearly have never been in an actual fight. Superman is fighting an experienced, skilled and angry opponent who is nearly as strong as he is. Sorry but if this was actually happening, it would be pretty much like it was in the movie.

Oh and btw, I didn't like the fact that scenes that should be pivotal and inspiring, instilling a sense of wonder and amazement fell flat. When he puts on the suit for the first time....not nearly what I was hopping for. When he appears as Superman in public for the first time...the people kind of just look at him like he's a common sight. No sense of awe really. For all the talk about how this would be the first contact story and deal with these issues, I didn't feel none of that in the movie. It was like an afterthought. Also missed peoples reactions on Superman at the end. AND, even before I ever saw the movie I was hoping to see a scene with Superman helping with the rebuilding of Metropolis. Nope, no such thing.

The movie was definitely a minor disappointment for me but it's also my personal favorite Superman movie and as an origin story I would put it above CA, Thor, TASM and below BB, IM. If I look at it with my fanboy goggles on (meaning forgiving it's many minor faults and fangasming at certain scenes), I'd give it an 8.5 on a personal scale.

I still have mixed feelings on some things but the movie does get better on repeat viewings. And I've been watching films long enough and know myself enough to know that my opinion on it will not drastically change one way or another no matter how much time passes. It is what it is and I can see it pretty clearly for what it is.

Aaaaand I'm done for now.

 

[Deserana]

9/10

It was ludicrously entertaining.

Great -
Acting (especially Cavill)
Special FX (Particularly Krypton)
Opening 20 mins
Simply Stunning Action
Faora
The Score (WOW!!)
The Ending montage

Average -
Story (Very basic)
Pa Kent's death (didn't affect me the way it did to many)

Poor -
Some dialogue (RELEASE THE WORLD ENGINE)
Flashback pacing
The "turn Earth into Krypton" as the enemy's motivation (Again?)
Lack of small character moments (would have benefited greatly from this, these moments are what excel the DK trilogy and Avengers)

 

[JDonaldD]

I'm not sure why there are so many negative reviews for this movie. While not a perfect film by any means I really disagree with a lot of the criticism that the movie is too dark and that Superman is emotionless or not charming. Couldn't disagree more. The flashback scenes with Pa/Ma Kent were really moving and helped create an emotional foundation for the the film. I though Cavill was a pitch perfect Superman. I don't know why anyone would expect Superman to cracking one-liners or be funny as some expected. I thought given the story Cavil's Superman carried a warmth and confidence that I would expect for the character. I can't fathom how so many can argue the film lacks emotion when I was tearing up in all the Smallville scenes.

My only real complaints about the film from me involve too much exposition from Jor-El. The dream sequence with Zod, while cool to look at doesn't really make much sense. How does Superman get all that information in a dream? Was Zod talking to him as he was passed out? I would have liked to see Superman more concerned about the level of destruction he caused in Metropolis. There should have been a scene where is helping rebuild the city.

The entire movie I was thinking "if we don't get Clark Kent, mild mannered reporter, the movie fails." That would have been a deal breaker for me and too drastic of a re-imagining. So happy to see they found a way to integrate that.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

The entire movie I was thinking "if we don't get Clark Kent, mild mannered reporter, the movie fails." That would have been a deal breaker for me and too drastic of a re-imagining. So happy to see they found a way to integrate that.

But after Lois knows who he is. That alone destroys pretty much the best thing about Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter.

 

[Autonet]

But after Lois knows who he is. That alone destroys pretty much the best thing about Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter.

It's good for her to know, I like it this way.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

It's good for her to know, I like it this way.

I'm not against her knowing the secret at one point. But before she even meet Clark Kent the mild-mannered reporter? Before she looks at Superman as a mystery? Before anything that makes the Superman/Lois/Clark triangle so fascinating could ever happen?

I'm all for changes but the way it was done here - specially without having anything from the traditional journalist Clark - didn't make me feel we had something better than the original and traditional Superman.

 

[fixxxer1022]

6/10 for me.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

6/10 for me.

Same here, sir.

Senator Pleasury approves this post.

 

[Jim-El]

I gave it a 6/10 and that is being GENEROUS.
Still VERY disappointed in this movie.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

But after Lois knows who he is. That alone destroys pretty much the best thing about Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter.

No, I like comics and I've always thought that element was silly. Besides in some comics she eventually finds out

 

[Mac_Hine]

I liked this movie a lot! Faora stole the show and we finally saw how powerful Superman really is on the big screen. The movie did drag in places and could have maybe been edited better and used a pass through by Jonathan Nolan. But other than that, it was fun and the action was amazing. I was glad with what Kal-El had to do to Zod but I felt a tiny bit sad for him 'cause that's what he was bred for. Overall I give it a 4/5.

 

[Princess Denise]

I just saw MOS again and it is even better the second time. IDK why but the first time the beginning was irritating, but this time everything just seemed to flow better. I also saw it in 2D yesterday and 3D today so that may have had something to do with it. After a second viewing I am upping my score from an 8.8/10 to a 9.5/10 t:

 

[Senator Pleasury]

No, I like comics and I've always thought that element was silly. Besides in some comics she eventually finds out

Do you hate that Bruce Wayne has a butler? Or that Peter Parker is a nerd too? That's so silly.

 

[DarKush]

I'm still working out my feelings about the film and where it fits among comic book movies overall. But among the Superman films:

1. Superman 2
2. Superman
3. Man of Steel
4. Superman 3
5. Superman Returns
6. Superman 4

I really want to put Returns at the bottom but the embarrassing production values of Quest for Peace and terrible script/dialogue unfortunately robbed a film with perhaps the most interesting social message in the whole franchise.

 

[Jim-El]

1. Superman The Movie
2. The Dark Knight
3. Batman Begins
4. The Dark Knight Rises
5. Superman II
6. Superman II/The Richard Donner Cut
7-14 No time to think...
15. Man of something or other...

 

[damian99uk]

9/10 for me.

I now rate this as the best Superman film I've seen. I had no problems with the pacing, loved the score by zimmer also. I don't get why people were disappointed in the lesser characters development being as this film was all about Kal-El and his story. I'm more than happy to see more of Lois and Perry etc in the sequel.
My favourite part of the film was the first flight scene and the smile on his face, cause I would have been the same.
I also got a little teary when pa Kent died after he says to Lois that he did nothing as he trusted his dad.
The fight scenes were outstanding the best I have ever seen and that includes the avengers. Loved it when Zod realised he could fly too.
The biggest fear going in for me was the death of Zod, but after seeing how it played out on screen I really think it was well executed. I know that traditionally Superman doesn't killl, but my wife summed it up perfectly when she said "but he had no other choice". People have said this was bad or lazy writing but I disagree I think it was powerful and emotional. It was their way of letting us see how Clark became Kal-El who became Superman.
Another great addition to the film was all of the sequences on Krypton made me want to see a film just about that world.
Faora was another plus point cold hearted and lethal.
I wondered if any of the Kryptonians survived going into the phantom zone black hole and if they will come back with say brainiac in a future film.

All in all I think this was an excellent way to start off a franchise universe which we know includes Lex Luthor an Batman.

So my ranking for this film and other Superman films are


1.Man of Steel 9/10
2. Superman 2 9/10
3. Superman the Movie 8.5 /10
4. Superman Returns 7.5/10 (gains a half for the plane save)
5. Superman 3 6.5/10
6. Supergirl 4/10
7. Superman 4 2/10

 

[Rocketman]

10/10 for me.

The DC fanboy in me now wants to say that the Top 5 greatest superhero movies of all-time are:

1. The Dark Knight
2. Batman Begins
3. Man of Steel
4. The Dark Knight Rises
5. Watchmen

Realistically, Iron Man and The Avengers are sandwiched in there somewhere, but I don't care for any of Marvel's other movies (Incredible Hulk, Thor, Captain America, Iron Man 2 and Iron Man 3 don't come remotely close to my personal Top 5.