The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - Part 12

[guitarsingerguy]

Well, with Valerie saying they're coming home, I wonder if it'll just be the kids, or if it'll be all of them. Maybe we'll get a F4 that involves the kids but not the parents.

 

[Spidey_62]

Well, with Valerie saying they're coming home, I wonder if it'll just be the kids, or if it'll be all of them. Maybe we'll get a F4 that involves the kids but not the parents.

So reflecting the supposed Fantastic Four kids movie floating around from Fox with Ben and Johnny watching the kids on the adventure. Yikes don't give em any ideas they might go for the corporate synergy!

 

[guitarsingerguy]

So reflecting the supposed Fantastic Four kids movie floating around from Fox with Ben and Johnny watching the kids on the adventure. Yikes don't give em any ideas they might go for the corporate synergy!

Oh ****...I had forgotten all about that. Man...that could be a tell tale sign. Lame...

 

[First Avenger]

Well, with Valerie saying they're coming home, I wonder if it'll just be the kids, or if it'll be all of them. Maybe we'll get a F4 that involves the kids but not the parents.

Well Alex Ross posted a "preliminary sketch" of Reed and Sue with new costumes on his Instagram,only to get taken down minutes later.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Well, with Valerie saying they're coming home, I wonder if it'll just be the kids, or if it'll be all of them. Maybe we'll get a F4 that involves the kids but not the parents.

So reflecting the supposed Fantastic Four kids movie floating around from Fox with Ben and Johnny watching the kids on the adventure. Yikes don't give em any ideas they might go for the corporate synergy!

Yeah, if this hype doesn't eventually lead to a real FF revival, I think there will be some pissed-off comic-book fans.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Not really anything new here. Just the same old "Fox would be crazy to not be working toward a deal." But it's true:

http://thegww.com/marvel-studios-working-spider-man-type-deal-fantastic-four-editorial/

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I've been seeing reports that things seem to be moving forward with Gambit such as this: http://splashreport.com/exclusive-daniel-craig-lucky-bond-gambit/

With Deadpool, Gambit, X-Men, New Mutants, X-Force etc. It doesn't seem like they're going to have much room to squeeze FF in there anywhere. Unless those films fail, we could be looking at Deadpool 3, New Mutants 2, Gambit 2 etc. and that should give them more than enough to do two films per year with proven properties over the next 6 years without ever taking the risk of another FF related film.

Hopefully they'll come to their senses and focus on those X-films and stop fooling around with the FF who have only lost them money.

 

[random_havoc]

I don't think Fox is going to do another FF film at this point, but I also don't see Marvel getting them back until the expiration on their deal meaning years of wait, which really sucks

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't think Fox is going to do another FF film at this point, but I also don't see Marvel getting them back until the expiration on their deal meaning years of wait, which really sucks

I'm fine with that. Marvel would probably want to give them a little break before rushing into a new film anyway.

At this point if production doesn't start in 2022 (everything I've seen points to approximately 7 years from release of last film until start of production of next as a requirement to keep the rights), that will be it.

I can be patient. It's nearly 2018, so 2022 isn't that far away.

And we should know sooner than that if Fox has any real intention of doing anything (and if they don't they and Marvel may agree to some small deal to make it happen a little sooner).

And with that said, I wouldn't be surprised if we hear something sooner (maybe within the next year or two). I strongly suspect the BS we've been hearing about Fox films is designed specifically to get something out of Marvel. The chances are probably better than they've ever been that the two studios are talking and without Ike Perlmutter to screw things up, the chances of something happening are also better than they've ever been.

If Fox knows they'll never make another film, they'd be foolish to not take anything Marvel is willing to offer them at this point. If Marvel offers $10 million (and it should be worth at least that amount to Marvel to lock it down sooner rather than later), Fox should take it. That's $10 million they won't get in 2022.

Fox would probably like to get a Spider-Man type deal, but Marvel isn't likely to offer anything that sweet. If they do make a sharing deal, I'd expect Marvel to structure it so it's much more in their favor (and would likely include a full reversion at some point as part of the deal).

 

[Darth_Spock]

I'm fine with that. Marvel would probably want to give them a little break before rushing into a new film anyway.

At this point if production doesn't start in 2022 (everything I've seen points to approximately 7 years from release of last film until start of production of next as a requirement to keep the rights), that will be it.

I can be patient. It's nearly 2018, so 2022 isn't that far away.

And we should know sooner than that if Fox has any real intention of doing anything (and if they don't they and Marvel may agree to some small deal to make it happen a little sooner).

And with that said, I wouldn't be surprised if we hear something sooner (maybe within the next year or two). I strongly suspect the BS we've been hearing about Fox films is designed specifically to get something out of Marvel. The chances are probably better than they've ever been that the two studios are talking and without Ike Perlmutter to screw things up, the chances of something happening are also better than they've ever been.

If Fox knows they'll never make another film, they'd be foolish to not take anything Marvel is willing to offer them at this point. If Marvel offers $10 million (and it should be worth at least that amount to Marvel to lock it down sooner rather than later), Fox should take it. That's $10 million they won't get in 2022.

Fox would probably like to get a Spider-Man type deal, but Marvel isn't likely to offer anything that sweet. If they do make a sharing deal, I'd expect Marvel to structure it so it's much more in their favor (and would likely include a full reversion at some point as part of the deal).

Fascinating!

I believing that this is where we as Fans and ticket holders can help Marvel Studios out by starting with boycotting that Solo Venom film by Sony.

Homecoming has made the second highest Spider-man Box Office courtesy of the MCU. But Sony being the clueless, greedy lot that they are still wanna do their own thing, thus putting the Spidey-verse back in the convoluted mess that the Spider-man franchise was in in the first place, basically aggravating fans again.

So us speaking with our wallets next year would be a message to both Sony and Fox. That and Marvel Studios could start structuring new deals and demands from Sony as soon as the next Homecoming sequel.

Plus what did Marvel/Disney make from Fan4stic, like 5% of $168M? That's $8.5M more than Fox made off of it that year. So offering $10M to Constantine Films or whoever 2 years from now or would be fitting.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Fascinating!

I believing that this is where we as Fans and ticket holders can help Marvel Studios out by starting with boycotting that Solo Venom film by Sony.

Homecoming has made the second highest Spider-man Box Office courtesy of the MCU. But Sony being the clueless, greedy lot that they are still wanna do their own thing, thus putting the Spidey-verse back in the convoluted mess that the Spider-man franchise was in in the first place, basically aggravating fans again.

So us speaking with our wallets next year would be a message to both Sony and Fox. That and Marvel Studios could start structuring new deals and demands from Sony as soon as the next Homecoming sequel.

Plus what did Marvel/Disney make from Fan4stic, like 5% of $168M? That's $8.5M more than Fox made off of it that year. So offering $10M to Constantine Films or whoever 2 years from now or would be fitting.

They should offer the exact amount, to the penny, that they made from Fant4stic.

And as for Sony, I won't have to 'boycott'. I'm not really interested in seeing a Venom without Spider-man film.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

I've been seeing reports that things seem to be moving forward with Gambit such as this: http://splashreport.com/exclusive-daniel-craig-lucky-bond-gambit/

With Deadpool, Gambit, X-Men, New Mutants, X-Force etc. It doesn't seem like they're going to have much room to squeeze FF in there anywhere. Unless those films fail, we could be looking at Deadpool 3, New Mutants 2, Gambit 2 etc. and that should give them more than enough to do two films per year with proven properties over the next 6 years without ever taking the risk of another FF related film.

Hopefully they'll come to their senses and focus on those X-films and stop fooling around with the FF who have only lost them money.

Yeah, Verbinski is supposedly in talks with them going after Daniel Craig for Sinister, but it sounds like they're building some half ass version of the Marauders for an Ocean's 11 style Louvre heist. Idk how I feel about the story angle at all, and let's see if we can actually keep a director. I'm not sure I see Craig signing another multi picture deal after Bond.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

They should offer the exact amount, to the penny, that they made from Fant4stic.

And as for Sony, I won't have to 'boycott'. I'm not really interested in seeing a Venom without Spider-man film.

The only reason I'm curious about Venom is because of the talent signing up for it. I didn't see that in the slightest. And how is boycotting Venom going to do anything in regards to getting FF back? I just wish Fox would get it through their heads that making a good FF film is much harder than they had originally anticipated, and the only people that are gonna be able to crack that code are the people that created it.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Yeah, Verbinski is supposedly in talks with them going after Daniel Craig for Sinister, but it sounds like they're building some half ass version of the Marauders for an Ocean's 11 style Louvre heist. Idk how I feel about the story angle at all, and let's see if we can actually keep a director. I'm not sure I see Craig signing another multi picture deal after Bond.

Love Verbinski, but yeah, the idea that they'll really nail things is hard to get behind when you know their track record and know they have Kinberg directing Phoenix.

On one hand, I hope they'll knock it out of the park with their upcoming films so they'll have four or five ongoing stories and no room or logical reason to use FF.

... but I think it's far more likely than not they'll have some bombs in there and that will derail the idea of New Mutants 2, Deadpool 3, Gambit 2, etc.

I still think it makes a lot more sense for them to stay within the X-Verse, but if they make a couple Fant4stic class stinkers within the X-Verse, they may be forced to look at FF.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Love Verbinski, but yeah, the idea that they'll really nail things is hard to get behind when you know their track record and know they have Kinberg directing Phoenix.

On one hand, I hope they'll knock it out of the park with their upcoming films so they'll have four or five ongoing stories and no room or logical reason to use FF.

... but I think it's far more likely than not they'll have some bombs in there and that will derail the idea of New Mutants 2, Deadpool 3, Gambit 2, etc.

I still think it makes a lot more sense for them to stay within the X-Verse, but if they make a couple Fant4stic class stinkers within the X-Verse, they may be forced to look at FF.

Honestly, I'm VERY concerned with the X films with the exception of Deadpool. If the tone of New Mutants is like they say it is, I think it's gonna be a hard sell. I'll believe Gambit gets made when I see it, and need I say more than Kinsberg directing? Even if Gambit gets made and they nail down Verbinski and Daniel Craig, the story just sounds like an odd fit. Ant Man as a heist movie made sense. Gambit...eh...even with the thieve's guild angle, shoving the formation of the Marauders in there for THAT kind of reason doesn't make sense. Why would you hire killer mercs when you're trying to get in and out undetected? If they were actually gonna tell the Morlock story and wrap it into the X universe that would make sense, but to hire killers for a discreet theft...makes no sense.

And when the hell are they gonna figure out that they simply aren't the guys that are gonna crack the FF code? It's clearly a MUCH more difficult property to translate than they originally planned.

 

[ADollarADay]

Fascinating!

I believing that this is where we as Fans and ticket holders can help Marvel Studios out by starting with boycotting that Solo Venom film by Sony.

Homecoming has made the second highest Spider-man Box Office courtesy of the MCU. But Sony being the clueless, greedy lot that they are still wanna do their own thing, thus putting the Spidey-verse back in the convoluted mess that the Spider-man franchise was in in the first place, basically aggravating fans again.

So us speaking with our wallets next year would be a message to both Sony and Fox. That and Marvel Studios could start structuring new deals and demands from Sony as soon as the next Homecoming sequel.

Plus what did Marvel/Disney make from Fan4stic, like 5% of $168M? That's $8.5M more than Fox made off of it that year. So offering $10M to Constantine Films or whoever 2 years from now or would be fitting.

Disney probably gets 2% or less of the gross of FF. They get < 2% for X-Men movies and ~5% for Deadpool. FF's original contract was done before the X-Men one, the amended FF contract was probably done before the first X-Men and spiderman movies came out.

 

[Zarex]

Disney probably gets 2% or less of the gross of FF. They get < 2% for X-Men movies and ~5% for Deadpool. FF's original contract was done before the X-Men one, the amended FF contract was probably done before the first X-Men and spiderman movies came out.

I remember reading an interview with Corman (NO SOURCE PROVIDED) stating that the FOX FF contract was consummated almost immediately after production was completed on the 1994 FF flick. Marvel's take being between 2% and 3% of the BO gross seems to be a reasonable guestimate.

 

[wobbly]

The FF deal was renegotiated around 1998/99 as the deadline was running out (it's why Fox had the extra time between 1994/95 and finally making a film for 2005).

It's thought they haggled a better % cut then, I think rumoured to be about 5%

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

If it's 0.0001%, they still made way more on Fant4stic than Fox did.

 

[Zarex]

I know we give Avi Arad a lot of guff for signing off on what nowadays look like horribly lopsided licensing deals back in the 90s. But you can definitely see the appeal of gross points profit sharing arrangements to small publishing houses, especially for what was considered to be at that time a highly risky genre of movies. And zero upfront investment along with a guaranteed return (even if only 1%) has paid off on the likes of FFINO, GR2 and Elektra.

 

[wobbly]

Managed to find the archived site that covers the history of the FF and others rights news down the years.

This was from 1999:

"20th Century Fox has renewed its three film licenses with Marvel Entertainment. Fox has been developing Fantastic Four, X-Men and Silver Surfer for years, but word is that two of the three deals were in danger of expiring shortly. Variety reports that Fox has taken steps to ensure that development efforts could continue. The studio's deal called for principal photography to commence under a specific schedule and that due to production delays, those deadlines were in danger of slipping. The new deal extends the deadlines for at least two years.

The article also mentions that X-Men is in pre-production with an eye towards a summer filming start. The movie is targeted for a 2000 release. Likewise Fantastic Four is on deck also shooting for a 2000 or, more likely, a 2001 release. Chris Columbus' 1492 Pictures and Bernd Eichinger are producing Fantastic Four. Eichinger is also the producer on Silver Surfer."
​

Read more on it all here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080117183822/http://www.comics2film.com/FantasticFourArch.shtml

So the FF and the Surfer were the ones Fox were close to losing in 99 (they were apparently merged for ROTSS). They got X-Men into production before that deadline was due so the original low balled cut for Marvel remained. After Marvel saw bugger all money from Blade though it's thought they did go for and got a better % deal for the FF when they negotiated that extension. That extension was either more than 2 years or they added to it later on when the deadline was due again as the first effort was another 5 years away.

 

[ADollarADay]

I know we give Avi Arad a lot of guff for signing off on what nowadays look like horribly lopsided licensing deals back in the 90s. But you can definitely see the appeal of gross points profit sharing arrangements to small publishing houses, especially for what was considered to be at that time a highly risky genre of movies. And zero upfront investment along with a guaranteed return (even if only 1%) has paid off on the likes of FFINO, GR2 and Elektra.

Yes and no. I certainly don't blame them for bad deals and getting 1-2% of the gross or a small licensing fee for theme park rights. Like you said, no risk and just collecting money. However, you never give something up in perpetuity. If you watch Shark Tank, whenever Mr. Wonderful even suggests a small fee in perpetuity, all the other sharks completely chime in on how bad it is. Marvel gave some rights to their properties in perpetuity. That's horrible. Any decent lawyer at the time would have advised them against it - and probably did - but Arad probably wanted to do it anyways and caved to the big companies who were licensing Marvel's products. There was some success stories back then too, mainly Superman and Batman.

Until that one dude whose name escapes me now joined Marvel and decided they would be better producing it themselves, Arad - and leadership and Marvel - lacked balls and a vision. Potential Marvel buyers such as Disney, Fox, Universal, and especially Time Warner also lacked balls and a vision as it would have only cost them $200MM to buy them back then, with none, or almost none of the bad deals they have to this day.

So, yes, I don't blame them for doing bad deals for quick cash at no risk and no cost. I blame them for doing bad deals in perpetuity.

 

[wobbly]

I know we give Avi Arad a lot of guff for signing off on what nowadays look like horribly lopsided licensing deals back in the 90s. But you can definitely see the appeal of gross points profit sharing arrangements to small publishing houses, especially for what was considered to be at that time a highly risky genre of movies. And zero upfront investment along with a guaranteed return (even if only 1%) has paid off on the likes of FFINO, GR2 and Elektra.

As I understand it the rationale was the films, something Marvel could not do themselves at all at that time, were to serve as huge multi million dollar advertising for the books, and more importantly for Marvel at that time, toys.

When the penny dropped they were missing out on millions in revenue from being hosed on the % cuts the damage was done as far as X-Men and Spider-Man goes (the status with the latter having changed since of course). With the FF I'm pretty sure they did improve their cut before that first flick came out.

It's not out of bounds an overdue better cut for the X-Men films was negotiated for the TV show expansion.

 

[Zarex]

Until that one dude whose name escapes me now joined Marvel and decided they would be better producing it themselves, Arad - and leadership and Marvel - lacked balls and a vision.

David Maisel

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

So apparently M & M, in his rant against Trump said:

'Racism's the only thing he's Fantastic 4 cause that's how he gets his rock off, he's orange'

And LeBron James Tweeted a reference to it:

https://***********/KingJames/status/917961576350699520

Hey, I'll take anything that keeps the FF alive.