The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - Part 12

[Dark Raven]

Blackbolt needed to sing this song from the musical "Paint Your Wagon" while in that forest:

[YT]4Et8sJIurEg[/YT]

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Blackbolt needed to sing this song from the musical "Paint Your Wagon" while in that forest:

[YT]4Et8sJIurEg[/YT]

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Did anybody notice this little tidbit the other day?

‘Logan’ Spin-Off Starring X-23 In the Works From Director James Mangold

http://www.slashfilm.com/x-23-spin-off-logan-james-mangold/

With this, Gambit, X-Force, Deadpool 3, New Mutants 2, Dark Pheonix 2, Gambit 2, X-Force 2. . . Fox should have enough to keep themselves busy until the rights revert. t:

I may actually have to start supporting their films to increase the likelihood of sequels.

 

[wobbly]

I'm all for Fox expanding Thier X-Verse, and I hope they don't mess it up. That's where the money is for them.

But let the FF go. No fan in thier right mind wants them to try again.

 

[Zarex]

And, with the exception of Dark Phoenix, all of the proposed FOX-Marvel films can be done for much, much cheaper than a FF revival. Even a Doom origin flick or an FF kids reboot would cost much more than expanding the X-Men franchise, which has a much more successful track record. I don't know how a FOX FF film could possibly be put into production before the reversion date, but we've seen some wildly foolish decisions made by folks with lots of character rights and not a lot of sense.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

Yeah and don't forget: Fant4stic was a bomb at the box office. It lost Fox millions of dollars. That will be something that the executives will remember if they decide to finance another FF film.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Yeah and don't forget: Fant4stic was a bomb at the box office. It lost Fox millions of dollars. That will be something that the executives will remember if they decide to finance another FF film.

Yeah, I think the only way a new FF film happens is if they're desperate and running out of other viable options,

With the films that seem to be in development and potential sequels to those, I think their problem will be choosing which ones to cut or push off. In that environment, it seems increasingly unlikely they'll screw around with FF.

 

[ADollarADay]

I now hate all of you for wanting to keep X-Men away from the MCU. Hate is a strong word, so maybe just dislike!

Also, I think I messed around and found the Marvel - Sony contract from before the Disney acquisition. It is significantly longer and more thorough than the MCA-Marvel theme park rights contract.

The contract shows specific numbers on payments and dates. Also shows how the rights revert back

I can summarize what I have seen so far, at a high level, and share the contract for everyone to read if you repent and wish for X-Men to join the MCU :P Especially Willie!

 

[ludovica]

I now hate all of you for wanting to keep X-Men away from the MCU. Hate is a strong word, so maybe just dislike!

Also, I think I messed around and found the Marvel - Sony contract from before the Disney acquisition. It is significantly longer and more thorough than the MCA-Marvel theme park rights contract.

The contract shows specific numbers on payments and dates. Also shows how the rights revert back

I can summarize what I have seen so far, at a high level, and share the contract for everyone to read if you repent and wish for X-Men to join the MCU :P Especially Willie!

I'm with you in wanting X-Men in the MCU but maybe the parameters and conditions in Sony's contract are different than Fox's.
Anyway, what's the gist of it as you understand it?
When and how would Spidey completely revert?

 

[First Avenger]

I think FF is a priority compared to X-Men. They just fit ito the MCU and we still haven't got an half-decent Fantastic Four movie.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I now hate all of you for wanting to keep X-Men away from the MCU. Hate is a strong word, so maybe just dislike!

Also, I think I messed around and found the Marvel - Sony contract from before the Disney acquisition. It is significantly longer and more thorough than the MCA-Marvel theme park rights contract.

The contract shows specific numbers on payments and dates. Also shows how the rights revert back

I can summarize what I have seen so far, at a high level, and share the contract for everyone to read if you repent and wish for X-Men to join the MCU :P Especially Willie!

Sorry, but if I'm Sophie choosing between FF or X-Men, the mutants are headed to the gas chamber.

But realistically, it really has to be FF first, then X-Men. It's a near certainty Fox will have X-Men for the next ten years. The only hope for them might be more Marvel involvement at some point.

From what I've heard, I think the Sony/Spidey contract is much more specific than FF down to prohibiting certain things that don't fit the character. I don't think Fant4stic would have been possible if the FF contract had been as specific.

 

[Dasher10]

Anyone else really want to see Marvel pick up some rights to Fox characters? I feel like the Shi-Ar, Brood, Juggernaut, GW Bridge, Annihilus, Phalanx/Technarchy, Badoon, Abigail Brand, Kang and Blastaar are the ones who really need to return.

 

[Surfer]

I now hate all of you for wanting to keep X-Men away from the MCU. Hate is a strong word, so maybe just dislike!

Also, I think I messed around and found the Marvel - Sony contract from before the Disney acquisition. It is significantly longer and more thorough than the MCA-Marvel theme park rights contract.

The contract shows specific numbers on payments and dates. Also shows how the rights revert back

I can summarize what I have seen so far, at a high level, and share the contract for everyone to read if you repent and wish for X-Men to join the MCU :P Especially Willie!

While I think some people are very happy with the X-Men being with Fox, I think there is an equally good percentage of fans that would be happy if it reverted back to Marvel. However, with that said it is about priorities. Marvel right now is going more cosmic with some of it's stories and the Fantastic Four would be a great fit for what they have planned. Also, many feel that X-Men has been successful at Fox and leaving it there at least for now is okay, while the vast majority of fans agree how the Fantastic Four has been handled at Fox has been down right pathetic. So, given these factors it's understandable why the Fantastic Four is a higher priority to most fans to revert to the Marvel and join the MCU. However, this does not necessary mean some of these same fans don't wish that both the X-Men and the Fantastic Four rights would both revert. It just means they are seeing the reality of the situation and saying lets try to get the one that has a higher probability of reverting and the one that would also fit better into the current universe that is being built by Marvel.

Surfer

 

[ADollarADay]

I'm with you in wanting X-Men in the MCU but maybe the parameters and conditions in Sony's contract are different than Fox's.
Anyway, what's the gist of it as you understand it?
When and how would Spidey completely revert?

The contract is long as ****, and I just glanced through it. Plus it was amended in 2011 and again in 2015, so things have changed.

I do know that after 2011, the only way for Spidey to completely reverse, besides Sony completely misrepresenting the character and releasing that movie is if Sony fails to start production of a movie 3 years 9 months after the previous one and release it 5 years 9 months after the previous one. If a trilogy is released in a span of 8 years, then Sony can add 1 year and 3 months to each of the above figures. Sony also does not have to pay an advance fee or an extension anymore and they get a percentage of the BO gross from Disney. That could all have changed in 2015 though, we don't know...yet.

It also seems like all TV rights are completely with Marvel and with the 2015 deal, I wonder if MCU spidey is possible. Marvel could create a Spider-Man Origins story for this upcoming streaming service from Disney, since no one wants another spiderman origin stories anyways. An 8-10 episode tv series would be killer, especially since they will need killer services for the products and inhumans, which could have been it, will have to take some time to reboot properly.

I have to read it more in depth, but I don't think Sony could do anything about it.

From what I've heard, I think the Sony/Spidey contract is much more specific than FF down to prohibiting certain things that don't fit the character. I don't think Fant4stic would have been possible if the FF contract had been as specific.

Fan4stic definitely would have been possible if the "quality" stipulation is the same as the spidey contract I saw. Remember, Marvel - Sony original deal for spiderman was in 1999. It is believed that the FF movie rights from Constantin were either amended or expired around this time, which would make both contracts probably have similar verbiage and terminology. Fan4stic more than satisfies all the stipulations and requirements in the spidey contract. If anything, I would think the FF contract is less strict as the characters and lore are not as popular and financially viable as spider-man.

 

[ludovica]

I have to read it more in depth, but I don't think Sony could do anything about it.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Web-Head]

Anyone else really want to see Marvel pick up some rights to Fox characters? I feel like the Shi-Ar, Brood, Juggernaut, GW Bridge, Annihilus, Phalanx/Technarchy, Badoon, Abigail Brand, Kang and Blastaar are the ones who really need to return.

I'd like to see them get certain characters, for sure. I think they'll almost have to going forward

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Anyone else really want to see Marvel pick up some rights to Fox characters? I feel like the Shi-Ar, Brood, Juggernaut, GW Bridge, Annihilus, Phalanx/Technarchy, Badoon, Abigail Brand, Kang and Blastaar are the ones who really need to return.

I'd like to see them get certain characters, for sure. I think they'll almost have to going forward

I think they need to get characters back to fill in the gaps, but I'd put Dr. Doom, Galactus and Silver Surfer at the top of the list.

Then characters like Kang, Annihilus etc. fall into a much broader category of characters that belong in the MCU but aren't as essential.

 

[Dasher10]

I think they need to get characters back to fill in the gaps, but I'd put Dr. Doom, Galactus and Silver Surfer at the top of the list.

Then characters like Kang, Annihilus etc. fall into a much broader category of characters that belong in the MCU but aren't as essential.

I don't feel like Doom, Galactus and Surfer are as needed for storylines. Doom would be nice for BP but Galactus and Surfer aren't needed unless Mephisto reverted to Fox instead of Marvel when Ghost Rider reverted. I know that Venom reverted to Sony when New Line didn't make a Venom film.

Surfer is needed for Annihilators but considering that the Thor films never bothered with Beta Ray Bill and Ronan was killed off in the first Guardians film, I can't see Surfer being that essential, particularly since Infinity Gauntlet is able to be adapted without him. I feel like Marvel should try to work out their deals with Universal and Sony first before working on anything with Fox.

Doom could be used in Iron Man and Black Panther films but both of them have other villains they can utilize.

Galactus is only useful so far as he's a Fantastic Four character. Much like Silver Surfer, he's mostly utilized only in

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't feel like Doom, Galactus and Surfer are as needed for storylines. Doom would be nice for BP but Galactus and Surfer aren't needed unless Mephisto reverted to Fox instead of Marvel when Ghost Rider reverted. I know that Venom reverted to Sony when New Line didn't make a Venom film.

Surfer is needed for Annihilators but considering that the Thor films never bothered with Beta Ray Bill and Ronan was killed off in the first Guardians film, I can't see Surfer being that essential, particularly since Infinity Gauntlet is able to be adapted without him. I feel like Marvel should try to work out their deals with Universal and Sony first before working on anything with Fox.

Doom could be used in Iron Man and Black Panther films but both of them have other villains they can utilize.

Galactus is only useful so far as he's a Fantastic Four character. Much like Silver Surfer, he's mostly utilized only in

It's not a simple matter of this character could be used in Story X and that character can be used in story Y. From that point of view, Marvel doesn't need any of the missing characters. They have thousands of characters they could use to tell an infinite number of stories.

But Doom and Galactus are iconic characters that define the Marvel universe. Without them, the MCU will never feel right.

 

[WeaponXCII]

Sorry, but if I'm Sophie choosing between FF or X-Men, the mutants are headed to the gas chamber.

But realistically, it really has to be FF first, then X-Men. It's a near certainty Fox will have X-Men for the next ten years. The only hope for them might be more Marvel involvement at some point.

From what I've heard, I think the Sony/Spidey contract is much more specific than FF down to prohibiting certain things that don't fit the character. I don't think Fant4stic would have been possible if the FF contract had been as specific.

Maybe I'm just being optimistic (because the X-Men are to me what the Fantastic Four are to you), but I think there's a not insignificant likelihood that the X-Men are back home in well under ten years. Let's look at the films currently in production:

The New Mutants: Generic, cliched first trailer. Comic book movie desperately trying not to be a comic book movie- major Fantfourstic vibes.

Deadpool 2: Fox already caught lightning in a bottle once, but can they do it again this time, especially without Miller?

X-Men: Dark Phoenix: Being directed by Simple Simon, who intends to "ground" movie. In the words of Stan the Man, 'nuff said.

Gambit: Production issues from the very beginning. Success definitely doesn't look like it's in the cards.

From where I'm looking at things, I just don't see enough promise to extend things another decade. Just like with Fantastic Four, everything could be in the early days of reverting- all of their planned films could get scrapped- almost immediately after Gambit (the last of these, with a 2019 release date) is out of the gate. I know it's a lot of speculating, but I just wanted to offer my perspective.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Maybe I'm just being optimistic (because the X-Men are to me what the Fantastic Four are to you), but I think there's a not insignificant likelihood that the X-Men are back home in well under ten years. Let's look at the films currently in production:

The New Mutants: Generic, cliched first trailer. Comic book movie desperately trying not to be a comic book movie- major Fantfourstic vibes.

Deadpool 2: Fox already caught lightning in a bottle once, but can they do it again this time, especially without Miller?

X-Men: Dark Phoenix: Being directed by Simple Simon, who intends to "ground" movie. In the words of Stan the Man, 'nuff said.

Gambit: Production issues from the very beginning. Success definitely doesn't look like it's in the cards.

From where I'm looking at things, I just don't see enough promise to extend things another decade. Just like with Fantastic Four, everything could be in the early days of reverting- all of their planned films could get scrapped- almost immediately after Gambit (the last of these, with a 2019 release date) is out of the gate. I know it's a lot of speculating, but I just wanted to offer my perspective.

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but they don't need all of those to be successful. They're also reportedly working on X-23 and X-Force. So that's six different X-films in some stages of development, and if just one or two of those are successful enough to warrant a sequel (and they don't need to be 'good' just successful and at this point, X-Men seems to have a pretty solid built-in audience that will show up even to films with bad reviews - like Apocalypse) that's enough to keep extending the rights.

I agree that they could be in for some rough going - particularly with Simon freakin' Kinberg directing, but they're throwing a lot of poo at the wall and only a little of it needs to stick to allow them to continue making sequels to the ones that work while they retool the others (or start fresh with other characters).

As long as they want to keep the X-rights, they should be able to do so, but if things are bad enough, they may decide they could use some help from Marvel (though on that point, it seems the ideal time for that would have been a year or two ago when they would have had time to rethink some of the questionable things they're currently doing).

 

[WeaponXCII]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but they don't need all of those to be successful. They're also reportedly working on X-23 and X-Force. So that's six different X-films in some stages of development, and if just one or two of those are successful enough to warrant a sequel (and they don't need to be 'good' just successful and at this point, X-Men seems to have a pretty solid built-in audience that will show up even to films with bad reviews - like Apocalypse) that's enough to keep extending the rights.

I agree that they could be in for some rough going - particularly with Simon freakin' Kinberg directing, but they're throwing a lot of poo at the wall and only a little of it needs to stick to allow them to continue making sequels to the ones that work while they retool the others (or start fresh with other characters).

As long as they want to keep the X-rights, they should be able to do so, but if things are bad enough, they may decide they could use some help from Marvel (though on that point, it seems the ideal time for that would have been a year or two ago when they would have had time to rethink some of the questionable things they're currently doing).

They do need something to be successful, though, and I'm just not seeing any of the in-production X-films being really anything close to a sure shot. Which of the current films do you see as the most likely to succeed, Willie? Least likely?

I'm not sure why I included Deadpool- must have just been a lapse in my thinking- because those rights are separate from the main X-films, so his own movies are at least kind of a moot point.

The movies that they're "working on" are neither here nor there; the films, as you know of course, need to be in active production to extend the rights. With these, we're talking about sequels to films that don't even exist. All of the work that these other movies they're developing could completely halt tomorrow.

I don't know, I kind of feel like we're repeating ourselves a lot with different angles of speculation (but I guess that's sort of the point of the thread): "Well, if X doesn't happen, then Y could happen!", without really getting a whole lot closer to anything. I mean... to what end are we doing all of this? Round and around we go....

Sorry in advance if I came across a bit defensive; I'm just really passionate about these characters (as we all are), and I really like the back-and-forth that goes on in this thread most of the time. Hope you do, too.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

They do need something to be successful, though, and I'm just not seeing any of the in-production X-films being really anything close to a sure shot. Which of the current films do you see as the most likely to succeed, Willie? Least likely?

I'm not sure why I included Deadpool- must have just been a lapse in my thinking- because those rights are separate from the main X-films, so his own movies are at least kind of a moot point.

The movies that they're "working on" are neither here nor there; the films, as you know of course, need to be in active production to extend the rights. With these, we're talking about sequels to films that don't even exist. All of the work that these other movies they're developing could completely halt tomorrow.

I don't know, I kind of feel like we're repeating ourselves a lot with different angles of speculation (but I guess that's sort of the point of the thread): "Well, if X doesn't happen, then Y could happen!", without really getting a whole lot closer to anything. I mean... to what end are we doing all of this? Round and around we go....

Sorry in advance if I came across a bit defensive; I'm just really passionate about these characters (as we all are), and I really like the back-and-forth that goes on in this thread most of the time. Hope you do, too.

At times, I wonder if our best hope is for a mega-deal that would create a Sony-type sharing deal with Fox keeping a hand on X-Men and FF, but with both of them being integrated into the MCU.

Unfortunately, unless it's already in the works, it seems like Fox is already charging ahead and making it more difficult for a logical plan.

 

[Crimz]

I just saw Thor: Ragnarok, and each Marvel movie is making me wish the Fantastic Four are in the MCU already.

Korg especially made me want our lovable orange rock-monster in the MCU. FOX can't truly believe they can make a viable FF film without the MCU.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I just saw Thor: Ragnarok, and each Marvel movie is making me wish the Fantastic Four are in the MCU already.

Korg especially made me want our lovable orange rock-monster in the MCU. FOX can't truly believe they can make a viable FF film without the MCU.

It's SOOOOOOOOOO frustrating to see Marvel nail it again and again while Fox, after 3 films that are complete crap, continues to say they'll do it again.