The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 2

[Willie Lumpkin]

A parallel universe crossover could be on the horizon.

This is exactly what I'm expecting. I think they'll keep them on alternate worlds so Fox can maintain a large amount of control and continue the idea of a society with mutants and the inherent conflicts and mistrust that comes with that (which gets very blurred and confusing if you mix non- mutant superheroes into it).

But I think they're going to reboot that world and I think Fox and Marvel will confer more closely on where they're going than before. The cooperation will likely lead to better integration of comics, film and other merchandise (and in addition to cross-overs with characters popping back and forth between worlds, we could see the cosmic element - with characters like Galactus over-arching everything).

From what we've heard, the new TV series may include the first glimpse of the new mutant world which will then be more broadly integrated (Deadpool and Gambit may also take place in that world for all we know - unless someone can fill me in on info. I missed).

If you step back and look at what Marvel did vs. what Fox did with the X-Men, I think the big difference is that Marvel started small and built a large structure out of individual bricks. They introduced characters individually in relatively small films and allowed the audience to know and like and understand those individuals before throwing them into the larger event film.

Fox should do something similar with a rebuilt X-Men world. They can re-start with individual characters and create some mystery and intrigue in their world and let things slowly unfold and build towards the occasional big event film with smaller films and combinations of characters in-between.

 

[Big Bang]

I have no idea that TW is for sale; it seems to be doing well financially and way too big to be purchased imo. However, if Fox were to try to acquire TW, I wonder if Disney will also get into the bidding war? Even after spending 4 billion recently to buy Lucasfilm, I'm sure they still have enough to join the fray, especially since TW has many lucrative properties like DC.

Consider this for a moment, just a couple of years ago, Verizon bought out a stake in itself from another company to the tune of ~$160 Billion. (Yes, one hundred sixty billion dollars). When it comes to acquisitions of this magnitude it is done using a combination of assets such as cash, stock (from the buyer), and financed debt via 3rd party financial institutions.

Disney would never be able to purchase TW (or certain parts of it), with the exception of CNN (who they were rumored to be interested in). Fox would not be able to keep that part since they already have a cable news outlet. Disney has no cable news outlet so there would be no conflict. What it boils down to is Disney is already huge, and Fox hopes to reach that scale through this merger. There is just no way Disney would ever get regulator approval if they tried to buy TW.

That being said, they would likely support Fox in their bid, as all of the major media content creators have an invested interest in keep themselves out of the hands of content delivery companies like Comcast (who bought NBC/Universal), Verizon, and AT&T.

I really hope so. With X-Men on the verge of branching out to spin-offs like X-Force, the X-Men universe is going to get a lot bigger. There's no reason for Fox to keep holding on to FF, particularly since they have no interest whatsoever on the cosmic characters that come with FF. A Comic Con announcement of FF returning to Marvel would be incredible.

Isn't Ego part of the FF rights too? At least I thought he was tied up in there somewhere. Now it appears he may be in the next Guardians of the Galaxy movie: ( http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/01...axy-vol-2-may-include-a-huge-marvel-character ).

Agreed though, there is really no reason at all for Fox to hold onto FF any longer. Except for spite, because that always works out well.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

After Rupert Murdoch publicly blamed Fant4stic for the parent company's poor quarter, I don't see the studio wanting anything to do with the franchise. That's not the kind of attention you want.

 

[Dark Raven]

There's an article on the front page of the Hype on whether Fox can send the X-Men to the Savage Land or not:

http://www.superherohype.com/features/363081-can-20th-century-fox-send-the-x-men-to-the-savage-land

They don't seem to know. But then they thought they could have a crossover with FF and X-Men.

 

[Zarex]

There's an article on the front page of the Hype on whether Fox can send the X-Men to the Savage Land or not:

http://www.superherohype.com/features/363081-can-20th-century-fox-send-the-x-men-to-the-savage-land

They don't seem to know. But then they thought they could have a crossover with FF and X-Men.

Per Bleeding Cool, as part of the Sony leaks:

The Marvel land in Antarctica which dinosaurs and save humans still live. It first appeared in Marvel Mystery Comics #22 in 1941, but first named in X-Men #10. So who gets to use it in the films, with licenses for various titles in competition?

On October 29th 2014, Sony exec Rachel O’Connor says

tom cohen (Marvel Studios VP) said it is not part of the xmen grant

Which means its part of Marvel Studios.

 

[Orba]

Yeah because Drew Goddard wanted to have Spider-man wanted it for the Sinister Six.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/04...e-the-savage-land-in-sinister-six-sony-leaks/

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Isn't Ego part of the FF rights too?

I've never heard any mention of Ego in connection with the FF rights, and I would assume he was never included (even though there is a comic connection).

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

There's an article on the front page of the Hype on whether Fox can send the X-Men to the Savage Land or not:

http://www.superherohype.com/features/363081-can-20th-century-fox-send-the-x-men-to-the-savage-land

They don't seem to know. But then they thought they could have a crossover with FF and X-Men.

A lot of people seem to assume these rights are linked to where things appeared first, but that's obviously not true. Black Panther, Inhumans, Ronan the Accuser etc. etc. all appeared first in FF, but they're obviously not part of the FF rights package.

Now if the X-Men wanted to include a prehistoric area, I don't think Marvel could stop them because that's an idea that has been done over and over again and Marvel doesn't own it, but they couldn't call it "Savage Land" and they couldn't include the key characters.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Yeah because Drew Goddard wanted to have Spider-man wanted it for the Sinister Six.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/04...e-the-savage-land-in-sinister-six-sony-leaks/

Interesting that my previous post came before I read this, but it matches my thinking. Nobody owns the idea of prehistoric lands. Arthur Conan Doyle did it along with hundreds of others.

 

[Dark Raven]

A lot of people seem to assume these rights are linked to where things appeared first, but that's obviously not true. Black Panther, Inhumans, Ronan the Accuser etc. etc. all appeared first in FF, but they're obviously not part of the FF rights package.

Now if the X-Men wanted to include a prehistoric area, I don't think Marvel could stop them because that's an idea that has been done over and over again and Marvel doesn't own it, but they couldn't call it "Savage Land" and they couldn't include the key characters.

They could call it the Wild Land, or the Untamed Land.

Unless Josh Trank is already using that name for the place where he keeps his dogs.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I've never heard any mention of Ego in connection with the FF rights, and I would assume he was never included (even though there is a comic connection).

Ego is typically regarded as being a Thor character.

 

[Dark Raven]

What? We heard about ego all the time in relation to the FF rights. Fox's and Trank's ego got in the way the whole time throughout the production.

 

[Orba]

It should also be mentioned that Ego was included in that poster Marvel released last year that seemed to include everyone but those whose film rights are held by Fox.

 

[Dasher10]

Marvel comics did the same thing with Iron Man in the 1960s. Stan Lee tried to see if he could take things which would make the main character unheroic (eg weapons manufacturer, arrogant, has heart problems etc) and turn him into a successful hero.

Now they need to see if they can do the same thing with a failing film franchise like Fantastic Four. It would be a real test to see their results not just for unknown properties but making properties that are considered toxic into huge successes.

Daredevil, Elektra and Punisher are all going to be in DD Season 2 so it's pretty safe to say that yes, Marvel Studios are interested in ressurecting failed characters. They also launched the MCU with a Hulk film and they're doing a Spider-Man film in 2017.

The FF may be as toxic as Ghost Rider but in anther few years, I expect Marvel to relaunch both the Ghost Rider comics and do a Ghost Rider film (Marvel expressed a desire to do something R-rated and Ghost Rider is the only property they have that can't be done on TV that really needs an R-rating since Blade, Moon Knight and Elektra may be ultra-violent but they're able to be done on a low budget). I don't expect Ghost Rider any sooner than 2021 but I expect it to happen then.

If Marvel were to expand Phase 3 with films in late 2018 and Late 2019 with Black Widow and Iron Man 4 - which should be doable for the former since Black Widow wouldn't require a huge budget - then Phase 4 could presumably start in 2020 with Hulk 2, Sensational Spider-Man 2 and Fantastic Four which would all work IMO.

What Fox would get out of selling the FF back is the chance to merge universes at the tail end of Phase 4. Have Phase 4 be about growing the MCU and the Fox-Men separately while integrating the FF into the fabric of the MCU. Start with the FF and their origin while they fight Annihilus, have Annihilus reappear in Guardians 3 where the Skrulls will also first appear, introduce Doctor Doom in Black Panther 2 and then have the Avengers fight Kang with Kang taking over the world and upon his defeat, he remakes reality only to be usurped by... Doctor Doom.

Prepare yourselves for Secret Wars. A two part special to bridge Phases 4 and 5 where time and space from two universes collide into a hodgepodge of reality ruled by Doom. One part will be directed by the Russos, the other part will be directed by Bryan Singer. The end result is a soft reboot of both universes where the Avengers and X-Men exist in the same universe. It's a way to keep the casts of both universes and bring certain characters like Sebastian Shaw and Ronan the Accuser back from the dead as well as give fans the young Hank Pym that they wanted.

Plus, X-Men vs Suaron and Zaladane in the Savage Land, GW Bridge and Abigail Brand join the cast of Agents of SHIELD, Quicksilver and Crystal's marriage, Captain Marvel and Spider-Man can join the X-Men, Rogue, Wolverine, Beast, Storm and Havok can join the Avengers, Spider-Man and Iceman becoming friends, the past and present X-Men teams are now one (but divided into blue and gold teams), Mister Sinister and High Evolutionary's rivalry, etc

 

[Aztec]

If Marvel were to expand Phase 3 with films in late 2018 and Late 2019 with Black Widow and Iron Man 4 - which should be doable for the former since Black Widow wouldn't require a huge budget - then Phase 4 could presumably start in 2020 with Hulk 2, Sensational Spider-Man 2 and Fantastic Four which would all work IMO.

What Fox would get out of selling the FF back is the chance to merge universes at the tail end of Phase 4. Have Phase 4 be about growing the MCU and the Fox-Men separately while integrating the FF into the fabric of the MCU. Start with the FF and their origin while they fight Annihilus, have Annihilus reappear in Guardians 3 where the Skrulls will also first appear, introduce Doctor Doom in Black Panther 2 and then have the Avengers fight Kang with Kang taking over the world and upon his defeat, he remakes reality only to be usurped by... Doctor Doom.

Prepare yourselves for Secret Wars. A two part special to bridge Phases 4 and 5 where time and space from two universes collide into a hodgepodge of reality ruled by Doom. One part will be directed by the Russos, the other part will be directed by Bryan Singer. The end result is a soft reboot of both universes where the Avengers and X-Men exist in the same universe. It's a way to keep the casts of both universes and bring certain characters like Sebastian Shaw and Ronan the Accuser back from the dead

I love a lot of your ideas but HELL NO to Bryan Singer and bringing more characters back from the dead!!!

I do envision Secret Wars being the Phase 4 mega film that finally unites ALL of the Marvel universe in the MCU. The signs are looking promising.


Except for Simon Kinberg mentioning today that the Fant4stic exists within the Fox-Men continuity....

 

[metaphysician]

Isn't Ego part of the FF rights too? At least I thought he was tied up in there somewhere. Now it appears he may be in the next Guardians of the Galaxy movie: ( http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/01...axy-vol-2-may-include-a-huge-marvel-character ).

I don't think there was ever any specific evidence that Ego was part of the FF package. After all, its not like the Celestials or Kree were, either.

 

[Eddie]

Inside baseball: Kinberg said Fantastic Four was part of the same universe because these interviews were conducted months ago, before Fant4stic had even released.

 

[Raiden]

I love a lot of your ideas but HELL NO to Bryan Singer and bringing more characters back from the dead!!!

I do envision Secret Wars being the Phase 4 mega film that finally unites ALL of the Marvel universe in the MCU. The signs are looking promising.


Except for Simon Kinberg mentioning today that the Fant4stic exists within the Fox-Men continuity....

If the DC movies are taking off in a major way and pose some challenge to Marvel, then after Phase 3 is done perhaps both Marvel and Fox will unite to give us a Avengers vs. X-Men movie where both universes collide and give the audience something they never thought they'd see. The scale of that will be the biggest in cinematic history I'm sure.

 

[Eddie]

Fox might be the ones releasing those DC movies, though...

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Here's an article that takes a tiny bit of kinda maybe sorta nothing and puts a lot of thought into it.

. . . but what else do we have at this point?

http://whatculture.com/film/does-th...marvel-would-introduce-the-fantastic-four.php

I think the key point is something that I've believed for a while: Just because nobody ever mentioned the Fantastic Four doesn't mean they never existed. They've never mentioned Ronald Reagan either.

 

[Kanon]

Here's an article that takes a tiny bit of kinda maybe sorta nothing and puts a lot of thought into it.

. . . but what else do we have at this point?

http://whatculture.com/film/does-th...marvel-would-introduce-the-fantastic-four.php

I think the key point is something that I've believed for a while: Just because nobody ever mentioned the Fantastic Four doesn't mean they never existed. They've never mentioned Ronald Reagan either.

The idea of FF being a movie property based on the "actual" in universe FF makes 100% sense, no doubt. There were FF comics (and more) in the comics continuity. And they are celebrities, how wouldn't make movies about them?

EDIT: I just finished the article, they made that point at the end

 

[metaphysician]

Here's an article that takes a tiny bit of kinda maybe sorta nothing and puts a lot of thought into it.

. . . but what else do we have at this point?

http://whatculture.com/film/does-th...marvel-would-introduce-the-fantastic-four.php

I think the key point is something that I've believed for a while: Just because nobody ever mentioned the Fantastic Four doesn't mean they never existed. They've never mentioned Ronald Reagan either.

OTOH, the fact that they've never been mentioned or hinted at *does* put boundaries on how they could be introduced. To make a trivial and exaggerated example, they can't be contemporary celebrities who became heroes a few years before Tony Stark came out as Iron Man, because it would contradict everything known about the setting so far.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

OTOH, the fact that they've never been mentioned or hinted at *does* put boundaries on how they could be introduced. To make a trivial and exaggerated example, they can't be contemporary celebrities who became heroes a few years before Tony Stark came out as Iron Man, because it would contradict everything known about the setting so far.

I would change that wording to say "it would contradict what most have presumed about the setting so far".

Based on what we knew, we had no reason to believe the original Ant-man existed before Iron-Man . . . but no specific reason to believe he wasn't there. If in Ant-Man, they had simply edited out the scene with Falcon and we saw that film without having seen or known about any of the other movies, we would have presumed the film was set in a world without other superheroes.

Can we list any quotes that would preclude the existence of the Fantastic Four? I think the only thing I could come up with that would be troublesome would be "Where were they during the battle of New York?"

But that could be relatively easily answered: "Somewhere else"

Most comic books we picked up as kids didn't mention all the other superheroes or have them get involved in the particular battle we were reading about . . . but they existed in that universe.

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe the best thing would be for them to have been presumed lost in the Negative Zone since the 1960s and then return triumphantly through a worm hole of some sort. Or maybe they could hint at the origin taking place in modern times during Phase 3 or 4, but we don't see it.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Maybe the best thing would be for them to have been presumed lost in the Negative Zone since the 1960s and then return triumphantly through a worm hole of some sort. Or maybe they could hint at the origin taking place in modern times during Phase 3 or 4, but we don't see it.

I certainly think the time lost 60s team is the way to go.