The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 5

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[Tony Stark]

I was here probably the longest with a few others like Willie trust me I know. I'm talking about boycotting a film not defending a ****** one.

You didn't see FF, so technically you boycotted them. If you mean boycotting all Fox films because of FF, I don't know anyone who supported that. Maybe a few.

I've seen every Marvel film Fox made including the Crapt4stick. I do think they are a cheap studio that treats their Marvel properties like crap. Even the first X-men was made with an embarrassingly cheap budget.

 

[Dasher10]

Anyone else wondering why Simon Kinberg thinks that the FF still have a life at Fox? At this point, I'd only accept a sequel if Fox sell Doom, Kang and Annihilus (along with all other Negative Zone characters and locations) back to Marvel first so the FF villains who I like can appear in the MCU.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

When reviewers are saying things like: Singer was supposed to give us the end of the world, and what seems to be a sendoff to the franchise's original trio of stars (Lawrence, McAvoy, and Fassbender haven't said whether they're coming back). Instead, Apocalypse follows the superhero script by the numbers, beat for beat, until its bitter end. And both the franchise and its cast deserve better.

I don't consider avoiding such films a 'boycott'.

When we get films like this and, as MBJ predicted, people "see it anyway", those people who go and see it are doing a disservice to anybody who wants better films.

Why should Fox actually put any effort into making good films when there are people out there who will line up to see the bad ones?

 

[Rorschach2012]

Willie you are the best poster. Agreed. The only option at this point is to let all the rights revert back to marvel or for fox to make a deal to incorporate their characters into the mcu

Fox are idiots not to make a deal

 

[DawnWarrior]

I generally preach that Fox can keep X-Men as long as they keep making good films, as the X-Men by itself is a nice large sandbox they can play with. While I liked Apocalypse, I find I'm reversing that a little more with each new X-Men film. The appeal of a full reboot where they can start fresh with a cleaner continuity is growing on me.

 

[Dasher10]

Namor's back from Universal now because after TIH failed to turn a profit, Uni didn't want to make any more Marvel films so they just let the rights expire and there was never a Namor film.

I'm hoping that the Hulk rights expire in 2018 and that Hulk's distribution rights are on a ten year timer like most Marvel film rights.

 

[Flint Marko]

Wait so they have Namor back? Oh man... I'm excited. I want to know Willie's thoughts.

 

[DawnWarrior]

How will they incorporate Namor into the MCU, I wonder? Some secret adventures with Cap during the war, perhaps? Without the FF and Doom, that limits a lot of his best stories. But it'll be great to have him around if/when Tony assembles the Illuminati.

 

[Dasher10]

I generally preach that Fox can keep X-Men as long as they keep making good films, as the X-Men by itself is a nice large sandbox they can play with. While I liked Apocalypse, I find I'm reversing that a little more with each new X-Men film. The appeal of a full reboot where they can start fresh with a cleaner continuity is growing on me.

Eh, they literally only released two films in the new continuity so far and Wolverine 3 is currently filming while Deadpool 2, Gambit and New Mutants are in various stages of production. Fox will not reboot. They just won't.


But Marvel got Namor back who's the biggest Avenger who Marvel didn't own the rights to. As in, we just had a rights reversion. This is a BIG deal. As in the MCU is now nearly complete.

 

[Dasher10]

How will they incorporate Namor into the MCU, I wonder? Some secret adventures with Cap during the war, perhaps? Without the FF and Doom, that limits a lot of his best stories. But it'll be great to have him around if/when Tony assembles the Illuminati.

He'll probably be the big bad of Avengers 4 for the first two acts until Attuma takes over during the third. Stingray will probably also be introduced as a government agent tasked with taking down Namor who'll also join the Avengers by the end of the film.

I mean, the Avengers still have Korvac, High Evolutionary, Green Goblin and MODOK to fight (Kang is at Fox) but Namor is Namor. It's the biggest name of the bunch and Marvel's first ever character. He's the entire reason why the Marvel U even exists in the first place.

 

[Tilapia]

Fox isn't going to reboot people. How hard will it be to find 5-6 new actors to fill in for the people they've already hired for these roles? With Disney/Marvel scooping up most of the talent out there? I don't think you just plug in the next Famke, Stewart, Jackman and go off to the races.

The reboot will be incorporated within the MCU. They will update most of the characters to a contemporary setting with the advent of the mutant phenomenon in the future as opposed to the distant past. This would undercut X-Men completely for me, so I wouldn't be interested in such a series. I like incorporating history into the franchise.

Frankly, I don't see a reboot happening, because Fox can keep building an expanded universe indefinitely. They are definitely going to recast Wolverine eventually. Worst comes to worse they will keep doing Wolverine and friends films. There is all that history between 1983 and the present, even if he were to meet his death in Wolverine 3. You can interchange as much as Bond.

 

[Dasher10]

Fox isn't going to reboot people. How hard will it be to find 5-6 new actors to fill in for the people they've already hired for these roles? With Disney/Marvel scooping up most of the talent out there? I don't think you just plug in the next Famke, Stewart, Jackman and go off to the races.

The reboot will be incorporated within the MCU. They will update most of the characters to a contemporary setting with the advent of the mutant phenomenon in the future as opposed to the distant past. This would undercut X-Men completely for me, so I wouldn't be interested in such a series. I like incorporating history into the franchise.

Frankly, I don't see a reboot happening, because Fox can keep building an expanded universe indefinitely. They are definitely going to recast Wolverine eventually. Worst comes to worse they will keep doing Wolverine and friends films. There is all that history between 1983 and the present, even if he were to meet his death in Wolverine 3. You can interchange as much as Bond.

I agree. Plus we know that Cable will be in Deadpool 2 so even if Wolverine dies in the future, Cable will probably mess with it again. The X-Men really don't need a reboot. The last thing that they need is a reboot.

The Fantastic Four don't need a reboot or a sequel... That franchise just needs to die so the MCU can use Kang in Avengers 4, Doom in Black Panther 2 and Annihilus in Guardians 3.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Namor's back from Universal now because after TIH failed to turn a profit, Uni didn't want to make any more Marvel films so they just let the rights expire and there was never a Namor film.

I'm hoping that the Hulk rights expire in 2018 and that Hulk's distribution rights are on a ten year timer like most Marvel film rights.

Wait so they have Namor back? Oh man... I'm excited. I want to know Willie's thoughts.

Wait, is this official breaking news . . . or something I missed . . . or just speculation? Last I heard, Universal still had a claim on him.

 

[wobbly]

Wait, is this official breaking news . . . or something I missed . . . or just speculation? Last I heard, Universal still had a claim on him.

Joe Quesada said he thinks Namor is back...as far as he knows.

Could be a Hulk like situation though where Marvel have the film rights, but Uni might still hold the distribution. Having said that after all this time I'd have thought any timer on a reversion clause (I'd imagine they are still in play for the distribution deals too) would surely have run out by now for Namor. I'd guess the Hulk's must be getting close there by now too.

Maybe a solo after a set up for one in Thor Ragnarok perhaps?

 

[Aztec]

Wait, is this official breaking news . . . or something I missed . . . or just speculation? Last I heard, Universal still had a claim on him.

Well CBM has a click bait titled story up but if you read the actual article it's less definitive. It doesn't sound to me like any change of status really happened. He doesn't even know it is Universal who held the distribution rights. He thought it was Sony or Fox. FYI Marvel could ALWAYS make a Namor film but Uni would have to distribute ala Hulk. So they have chosen not to make one.

I too am surprised that these distribution deals don't seem to have an expiration date (again the "story" is far from clear). I have to imagine the execs at Marvel/Disney kick themselves everyday for not having better foresight before signing their characters away indefinitely.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Joe Quesada said he thinks Namor is back...as far as he knows.

Could be a Hulk like situation though where Marvel have the film rights, but Uni might still hold the distribution. Having said that after all this time I'd have thought any timer on a reversion clause (I'd imagine they are still in play for the distribution deals too) would surely have run out by now for Namor. I'd guess the Hulk's must be getting close there by now too.

Maybe a solo after a set up for one in Thor Ragnarok perhaps?

Well CBM has a click bait titled story up but if you read the actual article it's less definitive. It doesn't sound to me like any change of status really happened. He doesn't even know it is Universal who held the distribution rights. He thought it was Sony or Fox. FYI Marvel could ALWAYS make a Namor film but Uni would have to distribute ala Hulk. So they have chosen not to make one.

I too am surprised that these distribution deals don't seem to have an expiration date (again the "story" is far from clear). I have to imagine the execs at Marvel/Disney kick themselves everyday for not having better foresight before signing their characters away indefinitely.

Thanks! If true, I would expect Marvel to want to announce at Comic-Con, so maybe Quesada has a little bit of info. and is saying more than he should.

If true, that would be huge. We need Namor in the MCU like we need Galactus, Doom and Reed Richards.

. . . but if they do have Namor and not The FF, it will be frustrating to watch him along with the Inhumans and Black Panther becoming major players while the FF (where they all got their start - reintroduction in the case of Namor) remains in purgatory.

 

[wobbly]

Well CBM has a click bait titled story up but if you read the actual article it's less definitive. It doesn't sound to me like any change of status really happened. He doesn't even know it is Universal who held the distribution rights. He thought it was Sony or Fox. FYI Marvel could ALWAYS make a Namor film but Uni would have to distribute ala Hulk. So they have chosen not to make one.

I too am surprised that these distribution deals don't seem to have an expiration date (again the "story" is far from clear). I have to imagine the execs at Marvel/Disney kick themselves everyday for not having better foresight before signing their characters away indefinitely.

In fairness the distribution deal with Uni was done pe Disney (when Marvel Studios had no distribution division of their own it made a lot more sense). I doubt Disney would have agreed to it when they have Buena Vista to handle it all.

And we have no idea on the terms with them. They could be on a timer (around 8 years as with the film rights) or it could be for a set amount of films. Perhaps 3 given the trend for trilogies.

If on an 8 year or so timer when the deals were done (presumably in 2008) Namors might have expired in the last year having had no film, and the Hulk might follow soon after.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

In fairness the distribution deal with Uni was done pe Disney (when Marvel Studios had no distribution division of their own it made a lot more sense). I doubt Disney would have agreed to it when they have Buena Vista to handle it all.

And we have no idea on the terms with them. They could be on a timer (around 8 years as with the film rights) or it could be for a set amount of films. Perhaps 3 given the trend for trilogies.

If on an 8 year or so timer when the deals were done (presumably in 2008) Namors might have expired in the last year having had no film, and the Hulk might follow soon after.

I would guess that the Hulk rights get extended with each Marvel film (it would seem foolish for Universal to sign off on an expiration based on lack of film production when Marvel is doing the production for them). If they did agree on an expiration based on time or number of films, I'd expect Marvel to at least pay some sort of buy-out option. Universal likely didn't get much for the rights if they were limited to a small percentage of the Avengers films and then they lose them.

 

[Dark Raven]

Fox: Do we have Aquaman?

Kinberg: Well he's not with Marvel or with Sony. So I guess yes, we do.

See how that doesn't tell you anything? So saying Namor isn't with Fox or Sony doesn't indicate he's back with Marvel now, since he was never with those two studios in the first place.

 

[Aztec]

In fairness the distribution deal with Uni was done pre Disney (when Marvel Studios had no distribution division of their own it made a lot more sense). I doubt Disney would have agreed to it when they have Buena Vista to handle it all.

Yes I'm aware but my comment was about the "indefinite" nature of the agreements. I understand fully why Marvel allowed other studios to make their movies at the time, they were bankrupt and it DID help, but I have to imagine they regret the contracts being "in perpetuity". Look at X-Men, Spider-Man, and Fantastic Four. Fox/Sony have total control on when/if those rights revert (even though Sony is working with M/D they still hold the rights).

They should have structured the deals by film or by time. For example you can make 3, 5, 10, etc X-Men films and then renegotiate or you can have the Spider-Mqn license for 10 or 15 years, etc. I'm sure they regret not doing that now.

 

[Endeavor]

Wait, is this official breaking news . . . or something I missed . . . or just speculation? Last I heard, Universal still had a claim on him.

Feige confirmed in an interview some time back that he was back, and added that it was complicated. It's basically the same as the Hulk scenario. Solo films of the character have to be distributed by Universal, but that doesn't stop Disney from distributing an ensemble film that includes him.
Check out the threads we have on this. There are at least 2.

 

[wobbly]

I would guess that the Hulk rights get extended with each Marvel film (it would seem foolish for Universal to sign off on an expiration based on lack of film production when Marvel is doing the production for them). If they did agree on an expiration based on time or number of films, I'd expect Marvel to at least pay some sort of buy-out option. Universal likely didn't get much for the rights if they were limited to a small percentage of the Avengers films and then they lose them.

Thing is when Universal gave Marvel the Hulk rights back early they had no reason to think Marvel Studios wouldn't keep making Hulk solo films. Indeed had Disney not bought them and they had continued the same I'd bet they would have greenlit a Hulk 2 shortly after his crowd pleasing turn in the Avengers.

Disney though changed things. Once the Paramount deal was done they took over the distribution and it seems they are totally unwilling to produce any film another studio gets to distribute.

So I dunno tbh. I do think Uni could have agreed to a time sensitive deal as they couldn't have foreseen the newbie Marvel Studios wouldn't need them (especially so soon). But without knowing the deals it is anyone's guess.

 

[Flint Marko]

So are we saying that Universal has the Hulk rights, and possibly the Namor rights, indefinitely? As in, no expiration date? I understand this is all speculation but it sounds like that's what someone just posited.