The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 5

[Endeavor]

Whatever they have, they've had it for way too long.

The only thing that makes sense is that when Marvel Studios started and they made that distribution deal with Paramount, they also had to re-negotiate with Universal because they wanted to use Hulk. If that negotiation, which took place some time prior to 2008, essentially reset the clock on all their Marvel properties, then I could see a somewhat reasonable scenario for them having this extended time of rights ownership.
But it's already been about 10 years since those talks should have happened and contracts signed. How much longer could they have it?

 

[Silvermoon]

Thing is when Universal gave Marvel the Hulk rights back early they had no reason to think Marvel Studios wouldn't keep making Hulk solo films. Indeed had Disney not bought them and they had continued the same I'd bet they would have greenlit a Hulk 2 shortly after his crowd pleasing turn in the Avengers.

Disney though changed things. Once the Paramount deal was done they took over the distribution and it seems they are totally unwilling to produce any film another studio gets to distribute.

So I dunno tbh. I do think Uni could have agreed to a time sensitive deal as they couldn't have foreseen the newbie Marvel Studios wouldn't need them (especially so soon). But without knowing the deals it is anyone's guess.

I think Universal having the distribution rights to Hulk is only a part (and not even a large one) of why another solo Hulk film hasn't been made.

I think the larger reason is simply because Hulk hasn't shown himself to be a money maker in solo films. Both Ang Lee's Hulk film and TIH failed to even double their (reported) production budgets in the world wide box office (TIH is the only MCU film to have not done that). If they felt they had a story good enough that would make them money, I'm sure they would probably work something out with Universal (either let them distribute it - just as Sony is still distributing the solo Spider-Man films - or else put enough money on the table that Universal is willing to give up the distribution rights). Right now, he's serving them best in the team up situations so Disney doesn't really have an incentive to push to get those distribution rights back.

That's just my opinion, however, on the situation.

 

[Darth_Spock]

Joe Quesada said he thinks Namor is back...as far as he knows.

Could be a Hulk like situation though where Marvel have the film rights, but Uni might still hold the distribution. Having said that after all this time I'd have thought any timer on a reversion clause (I'd imagine they are still in play for the distribution deals too) would surely have run out by now for Namor. I'd guess the Hulk's must be getting close there by now too.

Maybe a solo after a set up for one in Thor Ragnarok perhaps?

Some of us were just joking about Kinberg making the same statement a couple days ago and as much as I'd like this news to be true that statement feels more like it's simply coming home to roost.

I'd like to think that Quesada's more respectable than Kinberg though so if he is wrong we'll be seeing some type of notice from Marvel Studios within 24 hrs of the news hitting the net. Plus I'd still like to hear it for Kevin Feige himself.

 

[Endeavor]

Some of us were just joking about Kinberg making the same statement a couple days ago and as much as I'd like this news to be true that statement feels more like it's simply coming home to roost.

I'd like to think that Quesada's more respectable than Kinberg though so if he is wrong we'll be seeing some type of notice from Marvel Studios within 24 hrs of the news hitting the net. Plus I'd still like to hear it from Kevin Feige himself.

Here you go:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07...ns-of-the-galaxy-the-avengers-the-sub-mariner

 

[Boom]

Those comments are from two years ago.

 

[Endeavor]

Those comments are from two years ago.

Exactly. This isn't news. We've known about the reversion and issues with distribution since then.

 

[Boom]

Couldn't things change during that two-year period?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

If I'm understanding correctly:

Best case scenario - Marvel may already have the Namor rights free and clear.

Worst case scenario - Marvel can use Namor but will have to pay Universal.

If I'm correct in that interpretation, it's really just a matter of how badly they want to use him and how he fits in their long-range plans.

If I were Universal and the conditions under-which Namor could be used made Marvel not want to use him (leaving me, Universal, with nothing), I'd renegotiate to try to get something by either lowering the per-film cost or selling him back to Marvel for a one-time fee.

He's not doing Universal any good as things currently stand.

 

[Endeavor]

Couldn't things change during that two-year period?

Yes they could have, but nothing Quesadilla said suggests that.
He even got the studios wrong when he mentioned FOX and SONY. Those 2 never had any claim to the character.
The only thing of any value that he said on the matter was "As far as I know, yeah we do", when asked if Marvel Studios had the rights. Which is what we already knew from the Feige interview in 2014.
In fact, Feige's interview is more telling, because when asked his first response was "Yes", then he went on to explain how there are complications. Joe's answer is more vague and leaves room for doubt: "as fas as i know..."

I still hope something is in the works with Namor. But this recent clickbait article quoting a misinformed and vague Quesada is not what we should go by. The only thing it does is reinforce what we already knew.

 

[Endeavor]

If I'm understanding correctly:

Best case scenario - Marvel may already have the Namor rights free and clear.

Worst case scenario - Marvel can use Namor but will have to pay Universal.

If I'm correct in that interpretation, it's really just a matter of how badly they want to use him and how he fits in their long-range plans.

If I were Universal and the conditions under-which Namor could be used made Marvel not want to use him (leaving me, Universal, with nothing), I'd renegotiate to try to get something by either lowering the per-film cost or selling him back to Marvel for a one-time fee.

He's not doing Universal any good as things currently stand.

My suspicion is that whatever they did with MS prior to 2008 gave them an extension on what rights they bought during the 90's. But since they haven't done anything since then, the countdown to full reversion has to be near it's end. Unless Marvel lawyers circa 2006 made an even dumber deal than the ones in the 90's, which I seriously doubt.

 

[wobbly]

I think Universal having the distribution rights to Hulk is only a part (and not even a large one) of why another solo Hulk film hasn't been made.

I think the larger reason is simply because Hulk hasn't shown himself to be a money maker in solo films. Both Ang Lee's Hulk film and TIH failed to even double their (reported) production budgets in the world wide box office (TIH is the only MCU film to have not done that). If they felt they had a story good enough that would make them money, I'm sure they would probably work something out with Universal (either let them distribute it - just as Sony is still distributing the solo Spider-Man films - or else put enough money on the table that Universal is willing to give up the distribution rights). Right now, he's serving them best in the team up situations so Disney doesn't really have an incentive to push to get those distribution rights back.

That's just my opinion, however, on the situation.

Personally I'd disagree that the Hulk cannot be a hit, but given the performance of both films it is true he hasn't proved he can be.

That being said there's the quality of the films and the effect of one over the other as factors. 03 Hulk was a huge let down and while TIH was better, it was obviously not as good as it needed to be.

I do think the interest is there (the 03 Hulk breaking the ow weekend record for a June release at the time showed that) but I think to tap that interest properly they need to handle the Hulk properly.

The near mute tv model based version they keep running with is fine for his team ups, but ffs give him a proper speaking personality for a solo or expect more of the same when it comes to the box office.

Personally I want to see the Hulk as a proper character and none of the movies have given the audience that so far.

Hopefully Thor Ragnarok will finally set that precedent.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Personally I want to see the Hulk as a proper character and none of the movies have given the audience that so far.

Hopefully Thor Ragnarok will finally set that precedent.

Yep and yep. I think one big problem with every film Hulk has ever been in is that The Hulk (probably mainly due to CGI budget issues) has never actually appeared for more than brief moments. Even the two Hulk movies weren't really Hulk movies, they were Bruce Banner movies.

If you think about the comic-books, The Hulk was the featured character appearing on most pages. If the Hulk comic books we read as kids had two or three pages of actual Hulk and the rest was filled with other characters, would we ever have read them?

For these films to succeed, I believe the key is, to the extent possible, provide experiences that match what drew us to the comic books. Until they can do that with the Hulk, it just won't work.

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah, in some issues Banner barely appeared at all. It was almost the reverse of the TV series where Hulk would appear for a few minutes. Sometimes Banner might appear briefly but it was mostly Hulk. And he did all the talking and was far more interesting than Banner himself.

 

[Quasar]

Puny Banner!

 

[Web-Head]

Yes they could have, but nothing Quesadilla said suggests that.
He even got the studios wrong when he mentioned FOX and SONY. Those 2 never had any claim to the character.
The only thing of any value that he said on the matter was "As far as I know, yeah we do", when asked if Marvel Studios had the rights. Which is what we already knew from the Feige interview in 2014.
In fact, Feige's interview is more telling, because when asked his first response was "Yes", then he went on to explain how there are complications. Joe's answer is more vague and leaves room for doubt: "as fas as i know..."

I still hope something is in the works with Namor. But this recent clickbait article quoting a misinformed and vague Quesada is not what we should go by. The only thing it does is reinforce what we already knew.

Exactly! Thank you! I see people jumping for joy about Namor, but we already knew Marvel had the rights, just not the distribution rights. I don't think anything has changed with that. Quesada even said "As far as I know and "I can't speak for other studios..." Unless they announce a Namor solo film, I'll assume nothing has changed.

 

[DawnWarrior]

Well that's disappointing. I hate it when things take over my feed that don't mean anything. Sorry for contributing to that.

 

[metaphysician]

Honestly, I think a big part of what keeps Marvel from using Namor is simply the expense and difficulty of doing underwater scenes. Maybe after Cameron finishes inventing entire new technologies for doing underwater movies for Avatar 2.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Honestly, I think a big part of what keeps Marvel from using Namor is simply the expense and difficulty of doing underwater scenes. Maybe after Cameron finishes inventing entire new technologies for doing underwater movies for Avatar 2.

True, that plus the rights issues probably make him someone they're not rushing to do.

. . . but the biggest reason may be that he simply hasn't fit any stories they've wanted to tell yet. Considering the films Marvel has done so far, it's hard to point to any and consider Namor a natural fit.

At this moment, people like us are probably more interested in seeing Namor than any writers or directors are in using him.

 

[Dark Raven]

GOTG would've been a natural fit for Namor.

Unless you think he'd have been a fish out of water in space.

 

[wobbly]

True, that plus the rights issues probably make him someone they're not rushing to do.

. . . but the biggest reason may be that he simply hasn't fit any stories they've wanted to tell yet. Considering the films Marvel has done so far, it's hard to point to any and consider Namor a natural fit.

At this moment, people like us are probably more interested in seeing Namor than any writers or directors are in using him.

I'd think it would require some contrivance to work Namor into another hero's film.

I guess they could follow the comics.....have Namor be an urban legend from the German navy during WW2, and an amnesiac Namor re-emerges in the modern day, thinks Atlantis has been destroyed etc.

Still, best to do all that in a solo if they can.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

I think it would be rather easy to fit Namor into another hero's movie.

Through the years, he has been alternately portrayed as a good-natured but short-fused superhero, or a hostile invader seeking vengeance for perceived wrongs that misguided surface-dwellers committed against his kingdom. The first known comic book antihero,[3] the Sub-Mariner has remained a historically important and relatively popular Marvel character.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think the FF would be a great way to introduce Namor. Not just because of the history, but because of the 'exploration' aspect of the FF.

After everything we've already seen, if the FF come in and 'discover' characters like Namor and Moleman, it would illustrate that while the MCU is branching out into the universe, there are still earth-bound mysteries to be uncovered. The Inhumans would fit that concept also, though we may have already gone too far down the Inhuman road with AOS.

The whole 'discovery' element is a big reason it would be great to have the FF sooner rather than later.

 

[Endeavor]

Well that's disappointing. I hate it when things take over my feed that don't mean anything. Sorry for contributing to that.

It's alright man, no harm. If anything, it's a positive thing that ppl continue to talk about Namor. It shows there's interest and even though movie makers might not come in here and write down our desires to put together a checklist for their movies, they do come and notice what we're talking about. That's one of the reasons I try to post in the Sub-Mariner threads once in a while.

 

[Endeavor]

Honestly, I think a big part of what keeps Marvel from using Namor is simply the expense and difficulty of doing underwater scenes. Maybe after Cameron finishes inventing entire new technologies for doing underwater movies for Avatar 2.

Yup

I was mentioning that very same thing in an earlier post.

 

[Spiderine]

Im not exactly sure how DC will introduce Aquaman besides that weird cameo in BvsS. But I believe he is supposed to be in JL film. Marvel should wait and see how that pans out before introducing Namor. That way they can be far more creative and take a different approach.