The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 6

[Willie Lumpkin]

Because in the entertainment industry, IP is everything. And those rights are more valuable to Marvel/Disney right now than they are to Fox. And if Fox allowed those rights to go back to a competitor, it would make them look bad.

It's far too late for Fox to not look bad. If they really were concerned about looking bad, they shouldn't have hired two woefully unqualified directors and made three crap films.

There's only one way I can see them coming out of this without 'looking bad' and I believe they're already well on that path.

If they announce another film within the next few years, the fans will have their pitchforks out from day one. No talented directors or actors will want to step into that mess after what happened last time. The project will be doomed from the start, and Fox will look bad.

If Fox just sits on the rights for several more years until they revert naturally and Marvel gets the rights back for nothing, Fox will look bad.

The only way not to look bad is to partner with Marvel, and I believe that process is well underway. I think the next Wolverine film will be the last of the old-school Fox films, and their other film and TV projects will be done in coordination with Marvel.

I can only speculate on the details (though I would expect Fox to have a larger stake in the X-Men films and Marvel would have a larger stake in FF and integrate them and their villains into the MCU), but a much closer working relationship between the two studios seems nearly inevitable and evidence suggests it's already well underway.

 

[NotNickFury]

As I said, we don't know what they got out of it. And rights reversion is hardly ever reported and is usually discovered through other means like a film announcement or a character folded in being included into a project. The truth is, we are likely to not learn what they got from the deal until much later. And who said Marvel was eager? I even stated they would more likely prefer just waiting it out.

The Spider-Man deal was reported. Sure, the leaks helped with that, but it was still reported every which way by just about any and every source reporting comic book news. And I didn't say anyone called Marvel eager, just that they're not as eager as people here for Fantastic Four in their universe. They've gotten this far without them and got as far as Civil War without Spider-Man, so they may not even need them for the moment.

Yes, we don't know what Marvel got, but at the same time, they may have gotten next to nothing related to the Fantastic Four. That's a much a possibility as anything else, given that there is literally nothing to go off of with the theories.

 

[Dark Raven]

Fox executive 1: We've put out two poorly received films and one disastrous one. We've shattered the movie-going audience's trust in us and ruined the entire Fantastic Four franchise so that it's worth nothing. The greatest comic book villain is also in tatters. One director will never work in Hollywood ever again, and no-one wants to see an FF movie by us at all. We've become the laughing stock of all comic fans.

Fox exec 2: I know. But if we allow the rights to go back to Marvel, it might actually make us look bad.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Fox executive 1: We've put out two poorly received films and one disastrous one. We've shattered the movie-going audience's trust in us and ruined the entire Fantastic Four franchise so that it's worth nothing. The greatest comic book villain is also in tatters. One director will never work in Hollywood ever again, and no-one wants to see an FF movie by us at all. We've become the laughing stock of all comic fans.

Fox exec 2: I know. But if we allow the rights to go back to Marvel, it might actually make us look bad.

 

[Val_Zod]

The Spider-Man deal was reported. Sure, the leaks helped with that, but it was still reported every which way by just about any and every source reporting comic book news. And I didn't say anyone called Marvel eager, just that they're not as eager as people here for Fantastic Four in their universe. They've gotten this far without them and got as far as Civil War without Spider-Man, so they may not even need them for the moment.

Yes, we don't know what Marvel got, but at the same time, they may have gotten next to nothing related to the Fantastic Four. That's a much a possibility as anything else, given that there is literally nothing to go off of with the theories.

That was a major company crossover deal, that was going to see plans for a character start up almost immediately after the announcement. There were other Marvel properties that reverted and weren't necessarily officially reported on like Daredevil and Ghostrider to name a few. If When FF do return to Marvel chances are it will be confirmed threw a second hand source rather than directly by Marvel, because I doubt they'd have immediate plans.

And as I just said to you, I never claimed, nor do I think anyone here thinks Marvel is adamantly going after the rights(why would they when the Fantastic Four are worth zilch atm). Everyone agrees they would like them back and that they will return sooner than later.

Lastly, I don't know why you are trying to debate with me on the matter of what Marvel got out of the TV deal. I literally said it may or may not be Fantastic Four, which is the most sensible answer. No need to lay it in with the forced reality check. No one here is clouded with the delusion that 'Marvel totally got the rights back threw those means'.

 

[Darth_Spock]

Fox isn't letting go of those film rights anytime soon. People wanted to believe the Comic-Con myth too badly.

Well what's even more fascinating is that fans won't be letting go of their money so see anymore F4 projects by Fox either.

That and what's a "Comic-con Myth"?

 

[Darth_Spock]

Because in the entertainment industry, IP is everything. And those rights are more valuable to Marvel/Disney right now than they are to Fox. And if Fox allowed those rights to go back to a competitor, it would make them look bad.

Fascinating!

So Fox keeps IP to make crappy films that loose them money and lower their stock so not to let said IP revert back a competitor?

Am I missing anything here or is the irony suppose to be this immense?

 

[WeaponXCII]

Why not? What would be the point of them keeping them? Just to say "Haha, Marvel...we still have the rights but can't do anything with them?"

There's only somewhat recently been research done on this, but certain professions attract psychopathic personalities. Guess what one of those professions is? You guessed it: executives. Two of the defining characteristics of psychopathy are extreme egocentrism (and what would inflate their egos more than having an IP belonging to Marvel, the biggest comics publisher out there?), and a lack of empathy for others (i.e., fans). In short, yeah, I believe %100 that they could be doing it just for this petty, petty reason.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/victorlipman/2013/04/25/the-disturbing-link-between-psychopathy-and-leadership/#6463782f2740

 

[Amadeus Arkham]

What did Marvel get from Fox in exchange for the Legion and Hellfire TV rights? Has it ever been disclosed?

 

[NotNickFury]

Once again, no. If there was, it would have been stated by now, not implied.

 

[Docker2.0]

Not really. Was there ever an official announcement of Ghost Rider or the Punisher landing back at Marvel? It was just, oh we have these guys back. Even though F4 are a much bigger property and they probably would have announced them having them back, you really can't rule out Marvel keeping it hush for now. Although I'm willing to believe that the reason Avengers:IW was changed from 1 and 2 was because the next phase will basically be introduced in the 2nd movie, which I wouldn't doubt is when the F4 would make their MCU entrance.

 

[Amadeus Arkham]

Who currently has the rights to Order, Chaos, Eternity, Infinity and the rest of the "cosmic" characters?

 

[wobbly]

Who currently has the rights to Order, Chaos, Eternity, Infinity and the rest of the "cosmic" characters?

I'd guess Galactus and the Surfer are the only cosmic characters locked into the FF rights, and even they weren't in the original deal.

The ones you noted plus the Celestials, Ego, living Tribunal etc, I'd think are with Marvel.

 

[wobbly]

Once again, no. If there was, it would have been stated by now, not implied.

All reversions so far have occurred under the radar. Only Spider-man was news as it happened, and that wasn't a reversion.

With Fox still aiming to claw back revenue from FFINO's after sales (when the TV deal was done) it wouldn't be any surprise that what Fox had to concede would have been kept hush hush and is likely to stay that way until something is announced that obviously points to just what it was.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I'd guess Galactus and the Surfer are the only cosmic characters locked into the FF rights, and even they weren't in the original deal.

The Watcher too, right?

 

[wobbly]

The Watcher too, right?

Probably. Forgot about Uatu.

 

[NotNickFury]

Which begs the question why people kept and still keep hoping Marvel made some sort of announcement at something like Comic-Con if, in fact, there's a chance they either don't have the film rights or want to stay hush hush.

 

[Amadeus Arkham]

I'd rather we wait until the first trailer for Infinity War drops and we see a shot of Adam Warlock or Vision or Whoever-the-**** holding the cosmic conference trying to rally all the big dogs to fight against Thanos.

 

[wobbly]

Which begs the question why people kept and still keep hoping Marvel made some sort of announcement at something like Comic-Con if, in fact, there's a chance they either don't have the film rights or want to stay hush hush.

Comic-con, at least this year's one, was more hope than expectation. Thing is we don't know what the score is atm. It would seem likely Fox had to barter something for the TV deal, but the FF rights is not automatically a given for that. The distribution rights for Star Wars IV is another potential card Fox has (and Disney would want) for example.

Anyways its just wait and see for us, as ever. I wouldn't expect anything one way or another for a while yet.

 

[Urich Leeds]

What did Marvel get from Fox in exchange for the Legion and Hellfire TV rights? Has it ever been disclosed?

Nope. Though it's been consistently rumored/speculated that it was for the FF rights and/or was an olive branch predating a FF deal down the line.

AvX has also been rumored since then, and had been rumored before, with a 2020 release date mentioned each time.

 

[Urich Leeds]

I'd guess Galactus and the Surfer are the only cosmic characters locked into the FF rights, and even they weren't in the original deal.

The ones you noted plus the Celestials, Ego, living Tribunal etc, I'd think are with Marvel.

Kang the Conquerer and the Super Skrull are also locked into the Fantastic Four rights.

And iirc, Galactus and Silver Surfer were apart of the original deal, but at one point where split from then re-added to the FF package.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Nope. Though it's been consistently rumored/speculated that it was for the FF rights and/or was an olive branch predating a FF deal down the line.

I think even the most pessimistic interpretation would lead us to believe Fox will never again make another FF film without at least Marvel involvement.

I would consider the most pessimistic interpretation to be something like this: There was no change in the rights situation and Fox and Marvel simply agreed to work together on the Fox TV shows because they believed that venture would be financially beneficial to both studios.

So while that pessimistic interpretation would seemingly leave us stuck where we've been regarding the rights, it would represent a seismic shift in attitudes from the studios.

That action would indicate a level of sanity and reason in terms of working together toward a goal that would be mutually beneficial that we haven't seen up to this point.

Our nightmare scenario is that Fox will just continue to pump out crap FF films every 7 years until we're all dead.

But fans don't want those films and each FF film Fox has made has done more poorly at the box office than its predecessor at the box office (to the point the last one likely lost close to $100 million and caused a huge drop in studio stock).

If there is any sanity and reason and willingness for the studios to work together, there's close to zero chance Fox will make another stand-alone FF film without Marvel's assistance. Unless they are completely bat-sh** crazy and refusing to ever cooperate with Marvel in any way (and the above interpretation would indicate that's not the case), the next FF film they make will likely be done with a large amount of Marvel input and cooperation and would likely include an integration of the FF and their villains into the MCU.

 

[TheVileOne]

Fascinating!

So Fox keeps IP to make crappy films that loose them money and lower their stock so not to let said IP revert back a competitor?

Am I missing anything here or is the irony suppose to be this immense?

Here is the problem. You guys are all looking at this from your own personal and biased perspective.

You guys make it sound like you want to believe these studio executives are all perfectly logical and smart people who will simply figure out a deal with Marvel Studios just because Sony and Marvel and Disney were able to work out a deal. But you are still talking about the same studio that produced and released Fant4stic.

Just because we have this perception of Fox getting beaten down over the last Fantastic Four movie doesn't mean things are going to automatically change now how we want them.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

FFINO is on HBO right now

I know what I'm watching!

 

[Zarex]

Here is the problem. You guys are all looking at this from your own personal and biased perspective.

You guys make it sound like you want to believe these studio executives are all perfectly logical and smart people who will simply figure out a deal with Marvel Studios just because Sony and Marvel and Disney were able to work out a deal. But you are still talking about the same studio that produced and released Fant4stic.

Just because we have this perception of Fox getting beaten down over the last Fantastic Four movie doesn't mean things are going to automatically change now how we want them.

Everyone posting on the Hype is looking at issues from their own personal and biased perspective. And few folks on this thread believes that FOX execs are perfectly logical and smart people, not after last summer's FFINO debacle. What many of us DO believe is that the studio is out of options regarding the FF franchise.

FOX can't put out a sequel or remake FFINO within the reversion period without committing to absorbing another 8 figure loss. They can't do another cheaply made, star free origin story, and the BO results from the last one doesn't justify the investment required to get the franchise on track. So what do they do?

FOX has the following options: A) Wait out the reversion period and let Marvel have the FF live action rights for nothing or B) Get something now for an early rights release and wave the middle finger at a franchise that hasn't earned you a dime in over a decade. Given that we know Marvel and FOX have already reached an agreement that appears to skew heavily in the favor of the Murdochs' company.......well, it ain't exactly a logical leap to suggest a deal has already been made.

If you want to believe that Disney (DISNEY!) handed over additional IP rights to a competitor, strengthening that studio's hold over Disney owned characters and increasing competition in a crowded marketplace for comic book programming, all in exchange for a minority stake in "Legion" and the proposed Mutant on the Run show, feel free to do so.