The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 6

[Web-Head]

Quesada says they have Namor, so I'm going with Quesada.

They have him, just not the distribution rights.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

So the first couple of FF films tried to be light hearted and jokey and failed, the reboot tried to be dark and serious and failed, so what tone should a new FF film have?

I guess the best way is to do a balance, have some humor and light heartiness, but take things seriously at the important moments, don't make the film into a farce, but don't make it too dark or overly serious.

I think it should be similar to the first Avengers, but a wide variety of tones could work if done right.

The tone of the first FF films wasn't really the problem, it was the script and execution. The 'jokes' often weren't funny and the serious moments weren't as intense as they should have been, but if they had been better executed, I don't think the ratio of what was supposed to be funny/what was supposed to be serious was too far off.

And that's why Fox was so short sighted. They couldn't look at the first two films and recognize the actual flaws but took the simplistic opinion that the tone was off rather than taking time to really understand the things that were really wrong with it (and they made some of the exact same mistakes with the third film that they made with the first two even though the tones were completely different).

And while I think intentionally going for a 'dark tone' is wrong for this property, a good FF film could be made with a tone that leaned toward the darker side. Fantastic Four #1 had a little bit of a creepy edge, and a skilled director could bring some of those elements out to give us a really great film with a darker tone as long as they also included some of the key elements that made FF work.

For example, I can imagine David Fincher or Ridley Sott directing amazing FF films that would be on the dark side but still work. But Josh Trank is no David Fincher or Ridley Scott.

 

[Chesterfield]

I have a feeling that right now Marvel is not interested in X-men unless they had full creative control. Which is asking a lot from a studio, I'm still surprised Sony agreed to it. And I don't see a parallel universe crossover happening anytime soon, just sounds so gimmicky, unless Marvel has a really good story they want to tell, they wouldn't bother with the legal headaches.

Sony agreeing to their deal with Marvel is one of the best decisions they've made. They would have been crazy not to do it. It's such a sweet deal for them.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Sony agreeing to their deal with Marvel is one of the best decisions they've made. They would have been crazy not to do it. It's such a sweet deal for them.

Would any of us even be looking forward to a non-Marvel reboot at this point? Prior to Civil War, I had close to zero interest in another Spider-Man film.

And even after the announcement, going into CW, I was interested in seeing Spidey in that film with the other characters but still not sure about a full film.

But after seeing CW, I can't wait to see that Spidey in his own film. It completely changed my attitude.

And that's why I'm sure Fox and Marvel will work something out. It makes too much sense for both studios. We can forget about all the rumors and speculation and details we know and be fairly sure from just simple common sense that Marvel and Fox will be working together much more closely in the future.

Fox may be foolish enough to continue to fumble blindly while watching Sony and Marvel do great things, but I think even they are smarter than that.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I had all but given up on Spider-Man after ASM2.

 

[NotNickFury]

I'm the opposite. I wouldn't have minded another film in that continuity as there are elements of the Webb Spider-Man films that I did enjoy. Sure, what Marvel Studios and Sony offer may be a fresh take, but I liked a lot of what the Webb films offered, even if I think the Raimi films hold up better. Heck, if Sony does actually do their own series separate from the MCU, I'd be interested to see what they do.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm the opposite. I wouldn't have minded another film in that continuity as there are elements of the Webb Spider-Man films that I did enjoy. Sure, what Marvel Studios and Sony offer may be a fresh take, but I liked a lot of what the Webb films offered, even if I think the Raimi films hold up better. Heck, if Sony does actually do their own series separate from the MCU, I'd be interested to see what they do.

I loved the way Spider-Man actually seemed to be having fun in ASM1, but Andrew Garfield never felt right (I feel like Garfield was a better Spider-Man while Toby McGuire was a better Peter parker). And I was looking forward to ASM2 after the first one. But after ASM2, I felt like there were so many things wrong and so many repetitive elements that we had seen through all 5 films that I just felt burnt out and disinterested.

But CW really recharged me (maybe partly because he didn't have enough screen time for me to feel like 'been there, done that'), and captured some subtle elements that weren't in any of the previous films.

I'm still a little afraid that after another full movie I'll feel like I've had enough Spider-Man, but I do want to see it now and I feel like if it had been ASM3, I might have just waited for it to come out on video.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I'm not one to immediately get overhyped for upcoming films anymore, because I've seen too many letdowns over the years. So I'm not going to be one of those people that immediately declared him the best rendition of the character so far after seeing CW. But it does give me a great deal of optimism, and Marvel films have never let me down yet.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm not one to immediately get overhyped for upcoming films anymore, because I've seen too many letdowns over the years. So I'm not going to be one of those people that immediately declared him the best rendition of the character so far after seeing CW. But it does give me a great deal of optimism, and Marvel films have never let me down yet.

Yeah, it's very possible I'll be disappointed by Homecoming, but at this moment I intend to see it. That wouldn't have been true for ASM3.

I hope they can do something like they did with "Winter Soldier" in which they created a very different feel with some familiar characters. The Webb films felt different from the Raimi films, but ultimately not different enough. Hopefully Homecoming will be unique enough to give us a feeling of being fresh while giving us the classic elements we want and expect. It's a tough task, but I'm optimistic at this point.

With FF, it makes such a huge psychological difference if it's: "Coming in 2021 Fox's Fantastic Four" vs. "Coming in 2021 Marvel's Fantastic Four" that Fox HAS to, at the very least, create the impression that it's a Marvel film.

 

[Spiderine]

Sony wanted a cinematic universe based around Spiderman supporting characters and villains. They were more interested in that than simply making good Spidey films. They don't have the elements to make that happen and no one cared to see it.

Having MCU Spiderman has got me excited about Spiderman again. Something that hasn't happened since my anticipation of SM3 was coming out in 07 only to be the biggest cinematic disappointment ever for me.

Other than Deadpool......I have become extremely bored with the Xfilms and right now it feels like a gigantic continuity cluster ****. And they would be foolish to ever announce a FF film again without it being completely spearheaded by Marvel and part of the MCU. NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!!!

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah, it's very possible I'll be disappointed by Homecoming, but at this moment I intend to see it. That wouldn't have been true for ASM3.

I hope they can do something like they did with "Winter Soldier" in which they created a very different feel with some familiar characters. The Webb films felt different from the Raimi films, but ultimately not different enough. Hopefully Homecoming will be unique enough to give us a feeling of being fresh while giving us the classic elements we want and expect. It's a tough task, but I'm optimistic at this point.

With FF, it makes such a huge psychological difference if it's: "Coming in 2021 Fox's Fantastic Four" vs. "Coming in 2021 Marvel's Fantastic Four" that Fox HAS to, at the very least, create the impression that it's a Marvel film.

Coming in 2021: Fox's FF has an ominous feeling about it and also feels like when you know you've got to get up for work the next day and you're told that the morning is coming.

Coming in 2021: Marvel's FF has an exciting feeling about it. It's like when people say "only 1 more sleep until vacation."

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Coming in 2021: Fox's FF has an ominous feeling about it and also feels like when you know you've got to get up for work the next day and you're told that the morning is coming.

Coming in 2021: Marvel's FF has an exciting feeling about it. It's like when people say "only 1 more sleep until vacation."

It's like:


Marvel - "Let's have sex"

Vs. Fox - "Let's have sex"

It may seem like they're both giving you the same thing . . . but not really.

 

[First Avenger]

That Scarlett pic. LAWD.

 

[ADollarADay]

Sony agreeing to their deal with Marvel is one of the best decisions they've made. They would have been crazy not to do it. It's such a sweet deal for them.

Indeed. Extremely one sided for Sony based on publicly info.

Sony wanted a cinematic universe based around Spiderman supporting characters and villains. They were more interested in that than simply making good Spidey films. They don't have the elements to make that happen and no one cared to see it.

Having MCU Spiderman has got me excited about Spiderman again. Something that hasn't happened since my anticipation of SM3 was coming out in 07 only to be the biggest cinematic disappointment ever for me.

Other than Deadpool......I have become extremely bored with the Xfilms and right now it feels like a gigantic continuity cluster ****. And they would be foolish to ever announce a FF film again without it being completely spearheaded by Marvel and part of the MCU. NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!!!

Sony is going a different route, apparently, with Valiant Comics Cinematic Universe and Masters of Universe Cinematic Universe. I have my theories as to why, but won't derail it.

I agree on Spiderman and XMen. I was bored as **** of Sony's spiderman, and I genuinely felt like Spiderman in CW was the best interpretation of spidey in film. Ever. I know it was just 15 minutes compared to a full 2 hour movie, but the bar has been set. On the Fox side, Deadpool was great, but Xmen Apocalypse was garbage and let's not ever mentioned Fan4stic. There is so much potential with those 2 franchises and that's the best they came up with? Ridiculous.

There is really no excuse for XMen not be doing avengers like numbers and FF not to be doing GoTG/SS like numbers. It is Fox's inability and dumbness that's preventing those franchises from reaching their full potential.

 

[TheVileOne]

A Spider-Man cinematic universe was never going to work, and everyone knew it. To me it was the height of arrogance that Sony thought they could make movie universes out of Ghostbusters and Spider-Man.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I was just browsing the pre-order section on Vudu and saw Doomed (the documentary about the Corman film) is available for $9.99 and expected to arrive October 11. So if you use Vudu (or any other digital video distributor) you might want to check that out.

I pre-ordered my copy.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Has anybody seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrKAXdIIK6s

It seems like the same general speculation we've been seeing for a while, but they mention something connected to the X-Men that also references Shield and Spider-Man.

Does anyone know what that's about?

 

[Orba]

This seems to be where your video got their information

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVWYPHFhQ7U

To be honest I really don't think we can take much take from it, I have a feeling that the Fox set dressers have just cut and paste from Marvel Comics databases to use as filler. Yes it mentions Spider-Man, but it is supposed to be from 1983. If you look closely there are even mentions of M-Day, the Legacy Virus, and the Phalanx.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

This seems to be where your video got their information

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVWYPHFhQ7U

To be honest I really don't think we can take much take from it, I have a feeling that the Fox set dressers have just cut and paste from Marvel Comics databases to use as filler. Yes it mentions Spider-Man, but it is supposed to be from 1983. If you look closely there are even mentions of M-Day, the Legacy Virus, and the Phalanx.

Thanks!

Yeah, now that I see what it is, I'm sure that was created by some low-level people who almost certainly wouldn't be among the small circle of people who know there is a deal (in the hypothetical world in which there is one).

I think the most interesting part of that is how much work goes into things that won't even be seen on screen.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

And here: http://x-men.wikia.com/wiki/Mutant

A quick Google search confirms your "cut and paste" theory with the exact wording from the Spider-man mention on that page.

Mutates

The term "mutant" in the Marvel Universe does not apply to those whose DNA has been mutated by an external force; in such case, those individuals are called mutates. The genetic material of mutates has been altered by an outside stimulus such as radiation, toxic shock, chemical agents, or energy. Spider-Man, who was not born a mutant, but was granted super-human powers by the bite of a radioactive spider, which injected irradiated spider venom into his bloodstream, is a popular example of a mutate.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

So who owns the rights to the word "Mutate"? Or better yet who owns rights to the Savage Land, Fox or Marvel?

 

[Abudefduf]

IIRC the Savage Land first appeared in an X-Men comic, so I'm gonna assume Fox.

 

[Orba]

So who owns the rights to the word "Mutate"? Or better yet who owns rights to the Savage Land, Fox or Marvel?

The Sony e-mail leak indicated that Marvel have the rights to the Savage Land. Apparently someone at Sony wanted to do something with Spider-Man but the higher ups said no because it would have been to similar to the Savage Land which Marvel controlled.

While the Savage Land first appeared in the X-Men the film rights are most likely a part of the Ka-Zar film rights. It would be almost impossible to do a Ka-Zar film without them.

 

[Abudefduf]

I didn't know any of that, but I guess it makes sense. I wonder if Marvel Studios are ever gonna do anything with those right, though.

 

[Spiderine]

It doesn't matter what comic some of these characters first appeared in. Certain rights to characters are bundled with other properties. Remember seeing Ronan in GOTG? What comic did he first appear in?