The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 6

[Dasher10]

I don't think Gambit will ever happen now. Wolverine's run is gonna end. X-Men franchise seems to be in a crossroad where there aren't enough characters interesting enough to hold the franchise up. Except for Deadpool.

I liked the cast from XMA. I feel like Fox should keep them. Recast Wolverine with Emile Hirsch and Fox is good to go.

FF on the other hand is DOA. Fox need to either let those rights go or do a deal like Sony did and let Marvel Studios reboot them. The FF are in a VERY different place compared to the X-Men.

And if Hulk works in Thor 3, then Marvel should pay Universal whatever they're asking for for the Hulk and Namor distribution rights back. Marvel have the money and Universal don't have the interest.

X-Men are in the least bad place right now compared to other properties.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

So who should be the villain in a Marvel made FF movie?

It can't be Doom, Doom is one of my favorite super villains, but Fox has screwed him up so much, that he needs to introduced properly, which would mean building him up over the course of several films.

So that leaves Doom out and Galactus, because you wouldn't start with Galactus either.

So who does leave us with? Well frankly, I think once you get past Doom and Galactus, the FF's rogues gallery starts looking pretty lame.

So here's another question, should the villain of the FF film be a compelling character in his own right or just a throw away villain who moves the plot forward and doesn't do much else, like most of the MCU villains.

Wizard seems like the perfect throwaway villain, I never cared about him in the comics, I always found him dull, never compelling. You could turn him into some corporate slime ball and it might be a step up for him (unlike Doom, where it is a huge step down). A true to the comics Wizard, does seem like a good choice, if you just want another throwaway villain.

Red Ghost is one of those characters that time has not been kind to, he seems like a throw back to outdated political stereotypes from the Cold War rather then a character that is relevant to now. I think even as a throwaway villain he would need some revamping, to be a compelling villain, he would need a lot of revamping.

Mole Man could go either way, he is a character who has his moments, but often does seem dull and directionless in the comics. Its easy to make him a throwaway villain, but some revamping, he could be compelling.

Mad Thinker is another character who goes from compelling to dull all the time. I think my favorite version of the character was the morally ambiguous version of him from New Warriors, in the FF comics, he just seems like another generic mad scientist. So he could be compelling or throwaway, depending on what the film makers did.

I like Annihilus in Annihilation, but often goes down like a punk in the FF title, Hickman had Torch humiliate Annihilus in his run. I also think Annihilus is bit too epic a foe to start off with.

Do you think they should go with one of those characters as the villain or someone else? Should the villain be a throwaway character or compelling in their own right?

I would do Moleman - not because of him specifically, but because of his monsters and the type of film they could do.

I think most of us would agree that one thing that sets the FF apart from other heroes is that they are explorers and scientists as much as superheroes. I always felt that Star Trek borrowed many elements from FF (as one specific example, consider The Infant Terrible http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Infant_Terrible_(Earth-616) and The Squire of Gothos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squire_of_Gothos in which, in both cases, we find out at the end that the powerful alien is just a child and the parents step in to end it. And we could list many other examples of shared concepts and story-lines.

So if we want to set the FF off from other Superhero films, I think a way to do that would be to make it a science fiction exploration film. The general story could be very similar to FF #1 but with improvements to Mole-man to make him a more intriguing character (maybe they don't even get his full story at the end, but just a glimpse of him and his plan so that he can remain a mysterious character).

An opening scene with a battle against a giant monster in NYC followed by an exploration (with danger and battles possible at every turn) of subterranea would capture the elements that make The FF unique and stand out from any films that have come before.

Or they could do a similar story with the exploration of the Negative Zone and an encounter with Annihilus or an outer-space story. The key elements I would like to see are:

1. An emphasis on exploration
2. Strange, alien settings that provide unknown dangers and visual spectacle
3. Battles with various powerful creatures

 

[Dark Raven]

So who should be the villain in a Marvel made FF movie?

It can't be Doom, Doom is one of my favorite super villains, but Fox has screwed him up so much, that he needs to introduced properly, which would mean building him up over the course of several films.

So that leaves Doom out and Galactus, because you wouldn't start with Galactus either.

So who does leave us with? Well frankly, I think once you get past Doom and Galactus, the FF's rogues gallery starts looking pretty lame.

So here's another question, should the villain of the FF film be a compelling character in his own right or just a throw away villain who moves the plot forward and doesn't do much else, like most of the MCU villains.

Wizard seems like the perfect throwaway villain, I never cared about him in the comics, I always found him dull, never compelling. You could turn him into some corporate slime ball and it might be a step up for him (unlike Doom, where it is a huge step down). A true to the comics Wizard, does seem like a good choice, if you just want another throwaway villain.

Red Ghost is one of those characters that time has not been kind to, he seems like a throw back to outdated political stereotypes from the Cold War rather then a character that is relevant to now. I think even as a throwaway villain he would need some revamping, to be a compelling villain, he would need a lot of revamping.

Mole Man could go either way, he is a character who has his moments, but often does seem dull and directionless in the comics. Its easy to make him a throwaway villain, but some revamping, he could be compelling.

Mad Thinker is another character who goes from compelling to dull all the time. I think my favorite version of the character was the morally ambiguous version of him from New Warriors, in the FF comics, he just seems like another generic mad scientist. So he could be compelling or throwaway, depending on what the film makers did.

I like Annihilus in Annihilation, but often goes down like a punk in the FF title, Hickman had Torch humiliate Annihilus in his run. I also think Annihilus is bit too epic a foe to start off with.

Do you think they should go with one of those characters as the villain or someone else? Should the villain be a throwaway character or compelling in their own right?

The Frightful Four.

Not only is it different to having a single villain from the previous films for the whole team to fight, but they also would tie into other areas of the MCU.

If you have the original Frightful Four, you have in addition to Wizard: Medusa (who would tie into the Inhumans), Sandman and the Trapster (both of whom would tie into Spider-Man). Trapster could easily be introduced in a Spidey movie as Paste Pot Pete (perhaps in a small scene) where Spidey makes fun of him before defeating him, causing him to change his name to Trapster.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The Frightful Four.

Not only is it different to having a single villain from the previous films for the whole team to fight, but they also would tie into other areas of the MCU.

If you have the original Frightful Four, you have in addition to Wizard: Medusa (who would tie into the Inhumans), Sandman and the Trapster (both of whom would tie into Spider-Man). Trapster could easily be introduced in a Spidey movie as Paste Pot Pete (perhaps in a small scene) where Spidey makes fun of him before defeating him, causing him to change his name to Trapster.

Honestly I've always felt a little meh about the Frightful Four. You've got one guy who has flying disks and is sort of smart (but not nearly as smart as Doom or Reed), you've got a woman who can move her hair around, a guy who can turn into a pile of sand and a guy who has guns that shoot out that stuff you use to fill cracks in walls.

With powers matched against powers, they've never felt like much of a threat against the FF.

It also generally feels to me that the Frightful Four act out of a personal vendetta against the FF more than anything. I would like to see something that presents a broader threat to people for the FF to protect the population as opposed to the FF just protecting themselves.

I hate to be so negative, and a skilled writer and director could make them work, but I feel like there are other villains that would work better naturally and not require as much effort.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I would like to see Medusa in something like the original Inhumans story, and I might be interested in a film that introduces the FF and Inhumans together... though that could get a little messy.

 

[Dark Raven]

I would like to see Medusa in something like the original Inhumans story, and I might be interested in a film that introduces the FF and Inhumans together... though that could get a little messy.

Well Frightful Four could be a way to introduce Medusa and the Inhumans. She would be an amnesiac when she's with the Four, and doesn't remember she's an Inhuman. Then when she battles the Fantastic Four she regains her memory, turns on her former teammates and leads Reed to exploring more about the Inhumans in order to restore Medusa to them, which might require him contacting Crystal or Blackbolt.

And the Frightful Four can change membership, as they have many times in the past. Once Medusa turns, they could easily have Thundra or someone else like Water Wizard or whoever would suit the story. They would have to replace Medusa in any event.

They also don't need to act out of personal vendetta. Wizard could well be aware of Medusa's true identity, so he's trying to use her to somehow tap into the Inhumans. The others would have more of a vendetta against Spider-Man, so that wouldn't be an issue against the Fantastic Four.

 

[The Overlord]

The Frightful Four.

Not only is it different to having a single villain from the previous films for the whole team to fight, but they also would tie into other areas of the MCU.

If you have the original Frightful Four, you have in addition to Wizard: Medusa (who would tie into the Inhumans), Sandman and the Trapster (both of whom would tie into Spider-Man). Trapster could easily be introduced in a Spidey movie as Paste Pot Pete (perhaps in a small scene) where Spidey makes fun of him before defeating him, causing him to change his name to Trapster.

I'm going to be honest, I never liked the Frightful Four.

Sandman and Medusa are kinda interesting characters, but Wizard and Trapster just are not.

Trapster is one of those guys who doesn't have any motive for being a super villain, he just woke up one day and decided to use those pastes he invented for crime, even though he could make more money simply patenting his pastes. He also seems like a guy who is not in the FF's league at all. the FF fight Doom and cosmic gods, Trapster comes off as a D-list street level villain.

Wizard is one of the least interesting "evil genius" villains ever, his motives are all over the place, first he just wanted to kidnap the Human Torch because he was bored (a really stupid plan) and then he is suddenly jealous of Reed Richards, making him some fourth rate Doom wannabe. He also has very little in terms of compelling personality, he really comes off as a super villain cliche rather then a real character.

I always thought the FF had superior team work, intelligence and power to the Frightful Four, so I never found them much of threat to the FF.

I think the Frightful Four need a lot revamping to work on the screen, at least for me.

I would do Moleman - not because of him specifically, but because of his monsters and the type of film they could do.

I think most of us would agree that one thing that sets the FF apart from other heroes is that they are explorers and scientists as much as superheroes. I always felt that Star Trek borrowed many elements from FF (as one specific example, consider The Infant Terrible http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Infant_Terrible_(Earth-616) and The Squire of Gothos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squire_of_Gothos in which, in both cases, we find out at the end that the powerful alien is just a child and the parents step in to end it. And we could list many other examples of shared concepts and story-lines.

So if we want to set the FF off from other Superhero films, I think a way to do that would be to make it a science fiction exploration film. The general story could be very similar to FF #1 but with improvements to Mole-man to make him a more intriguing character (maybe they don't even get his full story at the end, but just a glimpse of him and his plan so that he can remain a mysterious character).

An opening scene with a battle against a giant monster in NYC followed by an exploration (with danger and battles possible at every turn) of subterranea would capture the elements that make The FF unique and stand out from any films that have come before.

Or they could do a similar story with the exploration of the Negative Zone and an encounter with Annihilus or an outer-space story. The key elements I would like to see are:

1. An emphasis on exploration
2. Strange, alien settings that provide unknown dangers and visual spectacle
3. Battles with various powerful creatures

I don't think Mole Man is interesting enough to be a reoccurring enemy in the films, so I don't think there is a point in dragging out some mystery with him, I would try to have everything with him in his first appearance, because that is the only shot he will get to be the main villain of a film. The mystery is going to be disappointing, that 3 movies in, we find out he just angry nerd who is mad because he has no friends and can't get laid, which is kinda what he is in the comics. That twist may have be brilliant in the 60s, but I think now it would seem like old hat and disappointing. I would make Doom mysterious instead, have him manipulate events in the film, with Mole Man being a pawn of Doom, build Doom up over the course of several films. I think they would have to make him more compelling then he is in the comics, but give him a complete story in his first appearance, maybe he can be supporting character later, but I don't think Mole Man is interesting enough to be Big Bad of several films. I do think he would need a more developed personality and a better motive for being a super villain in the film.

If they use Annihilus, I think they would have to take elements from the Annihilation story, that is hiss best story, IMO.

 

[Dark Raven]

I'm going to be honest, I never liked the Frightful Four.

Sandman and Medusa are kinda interesting characters, but Wizard and Trapster just are not.

Trapster is one of those guys who doesn't have any motive for being a super villain, he just woke up one day and decided to use those pastes he invented for crime, even though he could make more money simply patenting his pastes. He also seems like a guy who is not in the FF's league at all. the FF fight Doom and cosmic gods, Trapster comes off as a D-list street level villain.

Wizard is one of the least interesting "evil genius" villains ever, his motives are all over the place, first he just wanted to kidnap the Human Torch because he was bored (a really stupid plan) and then he is suddenly jealous of Reed Richards, making him some fourth rate Doom wannabe. He also has very little in terms of compelling personality, he really comes off as a super villain cliche rather then a real character.

I always thought the FF had superior team work, intelligence and power to the Frightful Four, so I never found them much of threat to the FF.

I think the Frightful Four need a lot revamping to work on the screen, at least for me.

Sure, they can revamp them somewhat. Iron Man 2 used Whiplash of all villains, who was a D-list villain at best.

Trapster/ Paste Pot Pete would really just be there in the beginning as a founding member, but he could easily be replaced later on. Anyone else from the team's roster could later replace him in the same movie: Dragon Man, Klaw (although he might be saved for Black Panther), Titania, Thundra, Hydro Man (not Water Wizard whom I mentioned above. He's a different Marvel villain).

 

[The Overlord]

Sure, they can revamp them somewhat. Iron Man 2 used Whiplash of all villains, who was a D-list villain at best.

Trapster/ Paste Pot Pete would really just be there in the beginning as a founding member, but he could easily be replaced later on. Anyone else from the team's roster could later replace him in the same movie: Dragon Man, Klaw (although he might be saved for Black Panther), Titania, Thundra, Hydro Man (not Water Wizard whom I mentioned above. He's a different Marvel villain).

I wouldn't call movie Whiplash a great villain either though, he was okay, he was better then his comic book incarnation, but he did get lost in the shuffle and seemed like a disappointment in the end, he is really not some great bench mark character.

If Trapster is not going to add anything to the plot, I wouldn't bother putting him in, unless he is some comic relief villain that Torch defeats within the first 5 minutes.

I do think Wizard is the big problem, he would be the Big Bad in a Frightful Four movie and I have honest question, what is interesting about him? The character is just not compelling and is all over the place. Bendis made him into one of the Hood's henchmen, which was odd. Hickman gave him a mental breakdown, that came out of nowhere and went nowhere, somehow he was cured by the Carnage symbiote, what is that? The mental breakdown could have made the character more interesting, told us more about him, he kept on yammering about God while he was insane, were his parents religious? It seems like the writers don't want put in the work with him.

Here is a better question, what kind of villain should Wizard be? In the comics, he is just a jerk, he was no redeeming qualities, but nothing about him is creepy or menacing or scary, he just comes off as a clown most of the time. Should be made more sympathetic or more evil in the films or should he given something else to be more compelling?

I also think for an evil genius, he never learns anything, why doesn't he attack with a Frightful Fourteen instead of a Frightful Four?

That is why I said Wizard is the best choice for a throwaway villain, he was never that compelling in the comics, so he was made into some corporate scum bag in the movies, that would fine, IMO.

 

[ADollarADay]

Does that imply that Marvel gets the rights back in 2018 or that Universal's rights are extended every time Hulk get used?

My guess is a few people know for sure, but are under NDA. I have done extensive research on this and the only known timeframes we know for certain are:

Theme park rights east of the Mississippi have no expiration date as long as Universal keeps the rights and area relevant. They also cannot add any brand new rides without Marvel approvals, but can make updates to existing rides without Marvel's approvals (as long as it adheres to the lore).

Spiderman movies (pre 2015 deal) was a film has to be in production 3 years and 9 months after the previous movie released and be released 5 years and 9 months after the previous month released. Sony wanted to change it (longer periods) and Marvel wanted to change it (shorter periods), it is not publicly known if this has changed.

There are some educated guesses that XMen movies are similar to pre 2015 Spiderman's in terms of length and FF would be 5 years for production to start and 7 years to release. Deadpool is also supposed to be a little better for Marvel as they get a bigger cut. This is all an educated guess though.

I liked the cast from XMA. I feel like Fox should keep them. Recast Wolverine with Emile Hirsch and Fox is good to go.

FF on the other hand is DOA. Fox need to either let those rights go or do a deal like Sony did and let Marvel Studios reboot them. The FF are in a VERY different place compared to the X-Men.

And if Hulk works in Thor 3, then Marvel should pay Universal whatever they're asking for for the Hulk and Namor distribution rights back. Marvel have the money and Universal don't have the interest.

X-Men are in the least bad place right now compared to other properties.

Sansa Stark as Jean Grey was horrible. JLawrence is just looking for that paycheck. I watched the movie and was highly disappointed. Left wondering how come X-Men is not a $1B franchise on its own and figured out it was because Fox is just incompetent.

On Universal, it is known that Marvel's parent, Disney, wants those Marvel theme park rights. They want to deal with them and get everything, not just distribution rights to certain characters. Universal and Fox are complicated because of what rights they own (the former, theme park rights and distribution rights to certain characters, the latter, film rights to FF and XMen, and distribution rights to SW:ANH)

Namor distribution rights is supposed to be back according to Quesada. I do agree that a good Hulk movie would be a cash cow in this day and age.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Well Frightful Four could be a way to introduce Medusa and the Inhumans. She would be an amnesiac when she's with the Four, and doesn't remember she's an Inhuman. Then when she battles the Fantastic Four she regains her memory, turns on her former teammates and leads Reed to exploring more about the Inhumans in order to restore Medusa to them, which might require him contacting Crystal or Blackbolt.

And the Frightful Four can change membership, as they have many times in the past. Once Medusa turns, they could easily have Thundra or someone else like Water Wizard or whoever would suit the story. They would have to replace Medusa in any event.

They also don't need to act out of personal vendetta. Wizard could well be aware of Medusa's true identity, so he's trying to use her to somehow tap into the Inhumans. The others would have more of a vendetta against Spider-Man, so that wouldn't be an issue against the Fantastic Four.

Yeah, I think it all comes down to the story and the skill of the writer and director. I something like this could be turned into a great film, but it would take some more effort than some villains that would work a little easier from the start.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Here is a better question, what kind of villain should Wizard be? In the comics, he is just a jerk, he was no redeeming qualities, but nothing about him is creepy or menacing or scary, he just comes off as a clown most of the time. Should be made more sympathetic or more evil in the films or should he given something else to be more compelling?

I think this would be the key. He never seemed to have much purpose in the comics except that he wanted to get Reed and the FF. He would have to be reinvented in some way as a more compelling character with interesting motivations.

The good news is he could be reinvented without pissing people like me off, because he doesn't work that well as is. Too bad Fox didn't do something with the Wizard instead of Doom.

And that raises an interesting point. I think the three FF villains that work best as-is, without being modified too much are: Doom, Galactus and Annihilus. Since Fox has already taken too many liberties and since we would probably want to hold off on Doom and Galactus, Annihilus may be the one left that we haven't seen and could be a good opening villain who wouldn't need to be modified or reworked too much.

He would also be one that, if done right would be more threatening and creepy than anything we've seen so far.

 

[Zarex]

If the point of starting with the Frightful Four is to introduce Medusa and the Inhumans, why not just start with the Inhumans? I'd much rather see that fight onscreen. And Lockjaw has a smidge more merchandising potential than Paste Pot Pete.

I love the idea of a visit to the Negative Zone (funded by a mysterious european benefactor) and a dust up with Annihilus, but the similarities to the plot of FFINO may give Marvel pause.

I could see Mole Man used as a twist on the Under-Miner reveal in The Incredibles. The film opens to the FF battling a massive monster in NYC - no origin story here! - with Harvey Elder taken into custody before the opening credits.

 

[The Overlord]

Yeah, I think it all comes down to the story and the skill of the writer and director. I something like this could be turned into a great film, but it would take some more effort than some villains that would work a little easier from the start.

Well you could say that there are no bad characters, only bad writers, but really the MCU has made interesting villains like Malekith into totally dull characters. Wizard and Trapster are dull characters in the comics, I'm not sure the MCU would be willing or able to make them better in the movies, it would be an up hill battle.

Frankly I think the Netflix series have done a better job with their villains then the movies have, not only with obvious great villains like Kingpin, but other B-list villains like Purple Man, Cottonmouth and Black Mariah, Purple Man was somewhat improved over his comic book incarnation, while Cottonmouth and Mariah are vast improvements.

After hearing Cottonmouth's back story on why he is a criminal, I don't think I would much tolerance with the likes of Trapster or Wizard who are criminals for no good reason, despite the fact they have several other options open to them.


Also here is a sad fact, Cottonmouth and Black Mariah, who are one note stereotype villains in the comics, are better realized villains in live action then Doom is and he is one of best villains in comics.

I think this would be the key. He never seemed to have much purpose in the comics except that he wanted to get Reed and the FF. He would have to be reinvented in some way as a more compelling character with interesting motivations.

The good news is he could be reinvented without pissing people like me off, because he doesn't work that well as is. Too bad Fox didn't do something with the Wizard instead of Doom.

And that raises an interesting point. I think the three FF villains that work best as-is, without being modified too much are: Doom, Galactus and Annihilus. Since Fox has already taken too many liberties and since we would probably want to hold off on Doom and Galactus, Annihilus may be the one left that we haven't seen and could be a good opening villain who wouldn't need to be modified or reworked too much.

He would also be one that, if done right would be more threatening and creepy than anything we've seen so far.

I do think besides those 3 villains you mentioned, most of the FF's rogues gallery would some revamping to work on screen, frankly I think the FF's rogues gallery in the comics needs a major revamp, besides those 3 villains, the rest of the rogues gallery has been coasting on Silver Age fumes forever, I think villains need to evolve to be compelling, not just recycle the same old stories with them. Like I said, if they could do an interesting revamp of one of these lame villains in the movies, I would be happy. Mr. Freeze was a lame villain till BTAS.

Like I said before, Mad Thinker will became interesting to me when he appeared in the New warriors and they wrote him as something other then a mad scientist, for example. He was a better character in New Warriors then FF.

 

[Dark Raven]

If the point of starting with the Frightful Four is to introduce Medusa and the Inhumans, why not just start with the Inhumans? I'd much rather see that fight onscreen. And Lockjaw has a smidge more merchandising potential than Paste Pot Pete.

I love the idea of a visit to the Negative Zone (funded by a mysterious european benefactor) and a dust up with Annihilus, but the similarities to the plot of FFINO may give Marvel pause.

I could see Mole Man used as a twist on the Under-Miner reveal in The Incredibles. The film opens to the FF battling a massive monster in NYC - no origin story here! - with Harvey Elder taken into custody before the opening credits.

Well, the Frightful Four could be used as the villains at the start of the movie for the FF to battle, leading into a story about the Inhumans. Having Medusa as the amnesiac who turns out not to be a villain could be an interesting way to go. Maybe the Inhumans think that it is the Fantastic Four that have taken advantage of Medusa and her amnesiac state, and not the Frightful Four. That could lead them into battle with each other.

 

[The Overlord]

Well, the Frightful Four could be used as the villains at the start of the movie for the FF to battle, leading into a story about the Inhumans. Having Medusa as the amnesiac who turns out not to be a villain could be an interesting way to go. Maybe the Inhumans think that it is the Fantastic Four that have taken advantage of Medusa and her amnesiac state, and not the Frightful Four. That could lead them into battle with each other.

That seems like a lot of effort and money to get from point A to B, the Frightful Four would cost a lot of money, if they appear and are not even the focal point of the film, you blew up the film's budget for no good reason.

You could just have Medusa suffer from amnesia and be attacking random people, she gets into a fight with the FF and runs away, which quickly leads into an Inhuman story (assuming they are no longer getting their own movie).

I think you have to choose when to be faithful to source material and when to go in a different direction. I think shoe horning in the Frightful Four to an Inhumans movie, just because that is what the comics did, is a big waste of time and money and would make the movie more expensive and less cohesive.

 

[Dasher10]

I feel like Mad Thinker, Blastaar, Lucia Von Bardas, Thundra the Skrulls and Mole Man aren't inherently bad villains. It isn't just the big 3 FF baddies.

No comment on Wizard, Trapster or Red Ghost. The latter is especially dated since the Cold War is over. Trapster only works as a henchman and Wizard needs a costume redesign to appear more grounded since his helmet just doesn't work.

Kang is also with the FF rights but Marvel really need to get him back since he's an Avengers villain.

And Fox can't cross the FF over with the X-Men nor do I see Fox holding on to the FF for much longer.

 

[Kanon]

Well, the Frightful Four could be used as the villains at the start of the movie for the FF to battle, leading into a story about the Inhumans. Having Medusa as the amnesiac who turns out not to be a villain could be an interesting way to go. Maybe the Inhumans think that it is the Fantastic Four that have taken advantage of Medusa and her amnesiac state, and not the Frightful Four. That could lead them into battle with each other.

I like that idea, it's the way to go if you ask me. A good 15 min action packed intro, kinda like the Bond films, with the Frightful Four doing some cheesy steet level villain stuff like robbing a bank or some lab with weird tech, and the Fantastic Four saving the day. Absorving Man (from AoS) could be one of them, threatening some civilians and in the nick of time he is hit by something thrown at him, the rest of the Frightful Four turn around surprised and is the Fantastic Four, The Thing rigth there in the middle saying something like "Hey Creel, didn't your mom tech ya manners?"

Man, I have to write my Fantastic Four screenplay

 

[WeaponXCII]

I don't think Gambit will ever happen now. Wolverine's run is gonna end. X-Men franchise seems to be in a crossroad where there aren't enough characters interesting enough to hold the franchise up. Except for Deadpool.

The fact that Fox is planning (and I use that term very loosely) on having a character who is not even traditionally considered to be a member of the X-Men be the future face of the X-Men speaks far greater volumes about the current state of the property than any of their past failings, in my opinion.

 

[Spiderine]

The FF as well as Doom will have to get the Spiderman treatment if they are to ever debut in the MCU. They will need a much bigger stage in a big MCU ensemble film in order to make the huge statement that this is an all new version of the FF with no connection to the previous stench of FOX films. Spiderman made a huge splash in his CW debut and it was a success. Enough to make general audiences take notice and generate interests in his next solo flick.

Marvel knows that us fans will get excited for it regardless but you really have to sell this thing to people who casually watch these films. This franchise has had 3 films in the last 11 years and one poorly received reboot. 3 piss poor representations of Marvel's most prized villain in Doom.

Doom being setup during or immediately after IW could be a classic segway into phase 4. just having the mere mention of Latveria is enough to get that going. As for the FF......the aftermath of Thanos arriving and the events that affect the world would be a perfect lead in to the FF. Certain elements need to be established similar to MCU Spiderman if they want to do this right.

 

[PeterBenParker]

The FF as well as Doom will have to get the Spiderman treatment if they are to ever debut in the MCU. They will need a much bigger stage in a big MCU ensemble film in order to make the huge statement that this is an all new version of the FF with no connection to the previous stench of FOX films. Spiderman made a huge splash in his CW debut and it was a success. Enough to make general audiences take notice and generate interests in his next solo flick.

Marvel knows that us fans will get excited for it regardless but you really have to sell this thing to people who casually watch these films. This franchise has had 3 films in the last 11 years and one poorly received reboot. 3 piss poor representations of Marvel's most prized villain in Doom.

Doom being setup during or immediately after IW could be a classic segway into phase 4. just having the mere mention of Latveria is enough to get that going. As for the FF......the aftermath of Thanos arriving and the events that affect the world would be a perfect lead in to the FF. Certain elements need to be established similar to MCU Spiderman if they want to do this right.

I agree with this.

 

[Web-Head]

The FF as well as Doom will have to get the Spiderman treatment if they are to ever debut in the MCU. They will need a much bigger stage in a big MCU ensemble film in order to make the huge statement that this is an all new version of the FF with no connection to the previous stench of FOX films. Spiderman made a huge splash in his CW debut and it was a success. Enough to make general audiences take notice and generate interests in his next solo flick.

Marvel knows that us fans will get excited for it regardless but you really have to sell this thing to people who casually watch these films. This franchise has had 3 films in the last 11 years and one poorly received reboot. 3 piss poor representations of Marvel's most prized villain in Doom.

Doom being setup during or immediately after IW could be a classic segway into phase 4. just having the mere mention of Latveria is enough to get that going. As for the FF......the aftermath of Thanos arriving and the events that affect the world would be a perfect lead in to the FF. Certain elements need to be established similar to MCU Spiderman if they want to do this right.

 

[Dasher10]

I really wouldn't mind Phase 4 kicking off with a Fantastic Four reboot and Annihilus as the villain.

That would lead into Guardians 3 which would be an adaptation of Annihilation with Galactus making a cameo.

Introduce Doom as the villain of Black Panther 2.

Finally, end Phase 4 with an Avengers film with Kang as the antagonist. The film ends with Kang's backup plan being that his death would destroy reality as we know it. The MCU ends with Phase 4. In it's place there is only Battleworld. A world run by Doom. The aftermath mixes the MCU and X-Men universes into one timeline.

 

[Amadeus Arkham]

So who should be the villain in a Marvel made FF movie?

It can't be Doom, Doom is one of my favorite super villains, but Fox has screwed him up so much, that he needs to introduced properly, which would mean building him up over the course of several films.

So that leaves Doom out and Galactus, because you wouldn't start with Galactus either.

So who does leave us with? Well frankly, I think once you get past Doom and Galactus, the FF's rogues gallery starts looking pretty lame.

So here's another question, should the villain of the FF film be a compelling character in his own right or just a throw away villain who moves the plot forward and doesn't do much else, like most of the MCU villains.

Wizard seems like the perfect throwaway villain, I never cared about him in the comics, I always found him dull, never compelling. You could turn him into some corporate slime ball and it might be a step up for him (unlike Doom, where it is a huge step down). A true to the comics Wizard, does seem like a good choice, if you just want another throwaway villain.

Red Ghost is one of those characters that time has not been kind to, he seems like a throw back to outdated political stereotypes from the Cold War rather then a character that is relevant to now. I think even as a throwaway villain he would need some revamping, to be a compelling villain, he would need a lot of revamping.

Mole Man could go either way, he is a character who has his moments, but often does seem dull and directionless in the comics. Its easy to make him a throwaway villain, but some revamping, he could be compelling.

Mad Thinker is another character who goes from compelling to dull all the time. I think my favorite version of the character was the morally ambiguous version of him from New Warriors, in the FF comics, he just seems like another generic mad scientist. So he could be compelling or throwaway, depending on what the film makers did.

I like Annihilus in Annihilation, but often goes down like a punk in the FF title, Hickman had Torch humiliate Annihilus in his run. I also think Annihilus is bit too epic a foe to start off with.

Do you think they should go with one of those characters as the villain or someone else? Should the villain be a throwaway character or compelling in their own right?

Namor. One of the best foes of the Fantastic Four in the early Lee/Kirby books.

 

[Chris B]

So who should be the villain in a Marvel made FF movie?

It can't be Doom, Doom is one of my favorite super villains, but Fox has screwed him up so much, that he needs to introduced properly, which would mean building him up over the course of several films.

So that leaves Doom out and Galactus, because you wouldn't start with Galactus either.

So who does leave us with? Well frankly, I think once you get past Doom and Galactus, the FF's rogues gallery starts looking pretty lame.

So here's another question, should the villain of the FF film be a compelling character in his own right or just a throw away villain who moves the plot forward and doesn't do much else, like most of the MCU villains.

Wizard seems like the perfect throwaway villain, I never cared about him in the comics, I always found him dull, never compelling. You could turn him into some corporate slime ball and it might be a step up for him (unlike Doom, where it is a huge step down). A true to the comics Wizard, does seem like a good choice, if you just want another throwaway villain.

Red Ghost is one of those characters that time has not been kind to, he seems like a throw back to outdated political stereotypes from the Cold War rather then a character that is relevant to now. I think even as a throwaway villain he would need some revamping, to be a compelling villain, he would need a lot of revamping.

Mole Man could go either way, he is a character who has his moments, but often does seem dull and directionless in the comics. Its easy to make him a throwaway villain, but some revamping, he could be compelling.

Mad Thinker is another character who goes from compelling to dull all the time. I think my favorite version of the character was the morally ambiguous version of him from New Warriors, in the FF comics, he just seems like another generic mad scientist. So he could be compelling or throwaway, depending on what the film makers did.

I like Annihilus in Annihilation, but often goes down like a punk in the FF title, Hickman had Torch humiliate Annihilus in his run. I also think Annihilus is bit too epic a foe to start off with.

Do you think they should go with one of those characters as the villain or someone else? Should the villain be a throwaway character or compelling in their own right?

I'm in the Mole Man camp. I think he'd really bring out the explorers aspect of the FF and would bring something new to the table with his army of monsters.

Namor would be my second choice.