The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 7

[Mandon Knight]

Is there a view (possibly) that FF are seen as 'old hat' as such, in today's CBM world and out dated ? In theory, it shouldn't be that hard a concept to pull off but given we've had 3 tries at it and none of them have hit the aesthetic mark, will Marvel Studios really want to pursue this ?

 

[TheVileOne]

To me they are no more old hat than any of the other mainstay heroes who have been around for 50 years or more, or super spies like James Bond.

 

[Flint Marko]

Absolutely. The FF, Dr. Doom, Silver Surfer, and Galactus, are quintessential Marvel. Given that Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-man, and now Dr. Strange are successful franchises, I'm sure that Marvel could make it work. I think there needs to be some serious time before the next FF film, but Marvel is understandably eager to get them back.

 

[TheVileOne]

Doctor Doom was actually one of the central villains for the first season of Avengers Assemble, and it was actually pretty cool. In one episode, the Avengers basically send him to hell with the Midgard Serpent, and in a few weeks, when they see him there again, he was already running the place and freaking tamed the Midgard Serpent and bent it to his will. Doctor Doom isn't a normal guy.

I feel like it's not hard to bring these characters to life again fairly faithfully and have them be cool characters. George Lucas stole from Doctor Doom for a reason. He's one of the greatest villains ever. Hollywood has simply failed at every opportunity to honor Doctor Doom's greatness.

 

[Spiderine]

No

FF fits perfectly in the Disney mold. Their whole theme about family. And they are a group of explorers. They would love to have them and that host of supporting characters. What has happened is GOTG has filled that niche. And it actually works better given its story with Peter Quill being an adventurer out in the cosmos.

They also don't have the baggage of the previous Fox films that already introduced them to us. Its just no longer a priority to Marvel right now.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Sorry, I mean the actual 'dynamic' of the FF, the family bickering aspect, are they not a product of their time. I take on board, other characters have been able to be 'adapted' for a modern period, and 'tone' is the context here, something Marvel Studios have pulled off well.

 

[wobbly]

Sorry, I mean the actual 'dynamic' of the FF, the family bickering aspect, are they not a product of their time. I take on board, other characters have been able to be 'adapted' for a modern period, and 'tone' is the context here, something Marvel Studios have pulled off well.

Families still bicker. Nothing has changed signicantly about that dynamic (well, mine does at any rate). Family bickering can be worse than freinds having the occassional falling out, in my experience.

And the FF family were at the heart of the last Secret Wars so I dont think Marvel sees them as 'old hat'.

The movies are the problem. Thoroughly damaged goods thanks to Fox, so the books currently have them split up (no book to support a release) and Marvel ain't gonna be in a rush to to make their own version either (this is one corpse it would be wise to leave well alone for a while yet).

 

[Zarex]

Is there a view (possibly) that FF are seen as 'old hat' as such, in today's CBM world and out dated ? In theory, it shouldn't be that hard a concept to pull off but given we've had 3 tries at it and none of them have hit the aesthetic mark, will Marvel Studios really want to pursue this ?

There have been three awful attempts at putting Superman onscreen over the past decade, but that is an entirely a product of the writing, directing and acting being not up to snuff than it is a reflection on the fantastic source material. Superman isn't outdated, its just that he's surrounded by folks that don't get him. When they do we get Tyler Hoechlin's version.

The Incredibles covered much of the same ground as the FF and is one of the all time great comic book movies. A Marvel reboot done with a comparable level of quality will be another hit for the MCU.

 

[GoblinScrier]

Doctor Doom was actually one of the central villains for the first season of Avengers Assemble, and it was actually pretty cool. In one episode, the Avengers basically send him to hell with the Midgard Serpent, and in a few weeks, when they see him there again, he was already running the place and freaking tamed the Midgard Serpent and bent it to his will. Doctor Doom isn't a normal guy.

I feel like it's not hard to bring these characters to life again fairly faithfully and have them be cool characters. George Lucas stole from Doctor Doom for a reason. He's one of the greatest villains ever. Hollywood has simply failed at every opportunity to honor Doctor Doom's greatness.

Yes!!! That is the very nature of Doom...a mortal man he is, but he has done some of the biggest most impossible things and feats that no mere mortal could actually pull off...sheer will power, determination, preparation, and the classic "he's Doom" excuse is why so many people love this character...there is a reason that year after year he has been named THE Marvel villain and some people would argue, that he is the greatest villain in ALL of comicdom (me especially)...that is why its bad enough that Fox has destroyed the character 3 times but it hurts even worse that Marvel Studios isn't doing everything they can to get this quintessential villain for their upcoming stories...Doom trumps so many of the villains they have used or will be using...it just makes me sad...mad...all of the emotions

 

[wobbly]

There have been three awful attempts at putting Superman onscreen over the past decade, but that is an entirely a product of the writing, directing and acting being not up to snuff than it is a reflection on the fantastic source material. Superman isn't outdated, its just that he's surrounded by folks that don't get him. When they do we get Tyler Hoechlin's version.

The Incredibles covered much of the same ground as the FF and is one of the all time great comic book movies. A Marvel reboot done with a comparable level of quality will be another hit for the MCU.

Yup. When it came out I was a little biased against it as it was clearly lifting ideas from the FF and and other Marvel comics in general (Ice-Man's slide powers being another lift) and iirc Brad Bird didn't acknowledge that in any way (I remember him in an interview stating up with how he came up with Violet's powers...Dude, you just totally ripped off Sue Richards). Even the villain was akin to Doctor Doom (no powers, holding a long standing grudge against Mr. Incredible), albeit a childish brat version.

But in time I appreciated that film is (in a very roundabout way) the best Fantastic Four movie made so far.

 

[wobbly]

Why be quiet if that's the case? What's the endgame for either corporation?

At this time it suits both to officially remain silent about any deal/trade that either has been done, or might be in the works, or might be done later on.

Remember Marvel hasn't announced previous trades or reversions before they were completed and became obvious (DD, Ghost Rider, Punisher etc). The Sony deal with Spider-Man is the only one announced with any fanfare as he is very high profile and the deal itself rather unique.

Even the Ego Trade only came to light from one of Deadpool's screenwriters revealing that in a q&a (afaik other completed trades, if there have been any, do remain a secret). I suspect he might well have been given a telling off for letting that one slip. Note that Gunn certainly wasn't letting that cat out of the bag, though once the moggie was free he had no problem confirming it (too late to deny at that point).

Atm though, the FF is something Fox wont want to be seen as handing back (official line from Kinberg is the film wasn't a 'disaster' and they are still interested in doing a sequel!!), and Marvel would have no intention of fast-tracking a reboot so soon after FFINO anyway.

So it suits both to spin the wheels for a while, let the air clear, then when the time is right let the world know about a deal, if it happens. This is assuming Fox see sense and have/are/will go for a trade while they can. Better to get something worthwhile to them, rather than lose even more money on another screw up, or get nothing from a time elapsed reversion.

That reversion is the other possibility: Marvel might well have decided to play the waiting game. Let Fox stew on the rights, see if they are dumb enough to try again, and if not the rights would revert around 2022/23 anyway. If that is the end game neither will say anything and we won't know about it until after the reversion.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm absolutely certain that if you got Kevin Feige alone and there was no chance of it going public and he could be absolutely honest and you asked him if he would like to have FF and associated characters, his answer would be "absolutely".

But if he actually wants to get them, the dumbest thing in the world to say right now is that he wants them. That would just increase the cost.

In less than five years, Fox will be starting production on a new FF film (highly unlikely) or the rights will be on their way back to Marvel.

Five years is nothing to me, and I'm completely fine with that. And if they manage to get them sooner, that's just icing on the cake.

Just to put things in perspective, the first version of this thread started on January 15, 2013 just about 4 years ago.

So we have just a little longer than that from now to find out what's going to happen.

I've been waiting for a good Fantastic Four film for over 40 years. Five years is nothing.

 

[Zarex]

We should incorporate tips for healthy living into this thread. Keep Ourselves Alive!

 

[Endeavor]

Lol

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

We should incorporate tips for healthy living into this thread. Keep Ourselves Alive!

Good point. I should get that colonoscopy I've been putting off to make sure I'll live to see the Marvel FF film.

 

[Spiderine]

The game has always been to deny deny deny any and everything till the very end until there is no choice but to go public. I believe there would be no reason to do such a thing when there are no immediate plans to do anything. Phase 3 is so loaded right now with the biggest spectacle film to date in 2018/2019. And Fox is focused on its Xverse. I wouldn't expect to hear any significant news on the FF front till we get closer to phase 4.

They are probably working on outlining a phase 4 plan A and B outline with the probability....... highly likely inclusion........ of FF characters.

 

[Spiderine]

Good point. I should get that colonoscopy I've been putting off to make sure I'll live to see the Marvel FF film.

We want you alive Willie. Get it done.

 

[TheVileOne]

The game has always been to deny deny deny any and everything till the very end until there is no choice but to go public. I believe there would be no reason to do such a thing when there are no immediate plans to do anything. Phase 3 is so loaded right now with the biggest spectacle film to date in 2018/2019. And Fox is focused on its Xverse. I wouldn't expect to hear any significant news on the FF front till we get closer to phase 4.

They are probably working on outlining a phase 4 plan A and B outline with the probability....... highly likely inclusion........ of FF characters.

So you are saying Feige is lying?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

So you are saying Feige is lying?

Hypothetically, let's imagine Marvel has the rights:


Question: Fox controls the film rights to “The X-Men” and “The Fantastic Four.” Could you partner with them on a movie as you did with Sony?

Answer: It’s an impossibility at this juncture. We certainly have enough films to keep us busy for a number of lifetimes.



Where's the lie? A lie of omission at best and there's no executive of any business ever who hasn't strategically withheld information.

 

[wobbly]

Hypothetically, let's imagine Marvel has the rights:


Question: Fox controls the film rights to “The X-Men” and “The Fantastic Four.” Could you partner with them on a movie as you did with Sony?

Answer: It’s an impossibility at this juncture. We certainly have enough films to keep us busy for a number of lifetimes.



Where's the lie? A lie of omission at best and there's no executive of any business ever who hasn't strategically withheld information.

Its a reasonable non lying response to a leading question: "partner up... as you did with Sony" invites a truthful denial as I cant see Marvel offering that same kind of collaboration to Fox (or Fox asking for it).

 

[Dark Raven]

In response to "Could you partner with them on a movie as you did with Sony?", Feige's reaction should've just been this:

 

[Spiderine]

So you are saying Feige is lying?

I wouldn't call it lying. Its a reasonable enough response if ongoing talks or a preliminary deal was reached but not finalized or NOTHING can legally be said for certain amount of time. It certainly DOES not mean there are not rough outlines being created for phase 4 that include members of the FF property.

You seem like someone who has been around and know how these things work. They don't inform the public of what has taken place behind closed doors of business meetings. They give most political answers to these questions when asked. I'm sure Feige is sick and tired of being asked about it.

"no movement on this front"
"no plans at the time"
"we are moving forward"
"impossibilities"

They wouldn't come out and say anything significant unless it is concrete and there are immediate plans underway. Marvel and Sony didn't tell you jack until it was finalized and they had no choice.

 

[Zarex]

Depending on where your biases lie you can interpret Feige's statement anyway you wish by focusing on either the words "impossibility" or "at this juncture". In reality, he said a whole bunch of nothing.

 

[Spiderine]

Its a reasonable non lying response to a leading question: "partner up... as you did with Sony" invites a truthful denial as I cant see Marvel offering that same kind of collaboration to Fox (or Fox asking for it).

I never believed for one minute Fox/Marvel would collaborate on anything FF related. Maybe Xmen perhaps? Any deal made would involve characters back into Marvel fold and some concessions to Fox. They wouldn't inform us of that anymore than Feige telling us they just got the rights to Ego before it happened.

 

[Flint Marko]

Depending on where your biases lie you can interpret Feige's statement anyway you wish by focusing on either the words "impossibility" or "at this juncture". In reality, he said a whole bunch of nothing.

Fiege is a legitimate expert when it comes to PR and saying all the right things at the right time. Every time he's been publicly asked questions that seem like they might bleed over into controversial territory, he answers in the most diplomatic and concise way possible. Gotta respect that.

As for this newest interview - this is exactly what I expected. Anyone thinking that Fox and Marvel were about to jump into bed together in any significant capacity were fooling themselves. I'm fine with Marvel helping Sony out, but leave Fox out to keep throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks.