The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 7

[Docker2.0]

I think a Disney owned entity would settle for one or more of the below:

1) Rights transfer
2) Higher percentage fee of the gross for upcoming movies
3) Change in the reversal dates (either a hard expiry date, a lower number of years between movies, or both)

I don't think they would settle for just money. They want those rights 100% in-house eventually. The only thing that throws me off is how much they apparently gave up to simply have spiderman in the MCU. Very un-Disney like.

I can explain that one. There are a couple of reasons. Sony gets no merchandising from Spidey. Not just that but Sony is a financial mess. It's only a matter of time before they sell everything off or go for sale themselves, with Disney being a potential buyer. I can honestly understand why Disney made the Spidey deal.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The network shows are not in great shape, though Inhumans is a big swing at the bat for Marvel and ABC. But with Defenders, Punisher, Cloak & Dagger, Runaways and 2nd and 3rd seasons of the Netflix shows coming up, it's not like Marvel TV is hurting for product. In my opinion there was no reason to share the wealth with FOX unless a rights transfer was involved.

I think they need to start fresh and either make quality ABC shows that rival what they're doing on Netflix or not do any network programming.

Hopefully Inhumans will be different (and the whole Imax thing hints maybe they'll take it more seriously).

But the last thing I would do if I were Marvel trying to figure things out is give a competitor a chance to get things going before I could get my own s*** together.

The Perlmutter angle is interesting, but he has no say. Decisions regarding rights to properties are not going to be made by Perlmutter. Those decisions are going to be made by management levels that oversee all divisions. And that does raise an interesting point. Did upper management give Fox the TV rights partly as a message to Perlmutter? "If you can't do it, we'll let someone else have a shot."

I think that's at least possible, but that doesn't mean Marvel gave it for free. They recognize the TV rights have a big value to Fox and they would have cashed in that value in some form.

 

[Zarex]

The Perlmutter angle is interesting, but he has no say. Decisions regarding rights to properties are not going to be made by Perlmutter. Those decisions are going to be made by management levels that oversee all divisions. And that does raise an interesting point. Did upper management give Fox the TV rights partly as a message to Perlmutter? "If you can't do it, we'll let someone else have a shot."

I think that's at least possible, but that doesn't mean Marvel gave it for free. They recognize the TV rights have a big value to Fox and they would have cashed in that value in some form.

The bolded part is spot on. Ike gave up the right to have the final say on major licensing deals when he sold the company. He doesn't get to give away X-Men TV rights to spite Feige and Alan Horn, the guys who helped lead Disney to an all-time record at the BO in 2016.

Nothing has been disclosed, so I can only look at recent FOX-Marvel rights discussions and Disney's extremely aggressive stance in regards to its IP rights to form my opinion that the Mouse got something big back in return on this deal.

 

[ADollarADay]

Hopefully Inhumans will be different (and the whole Imax thing hints maybe they'll take it more seriously).

I'm worried about inhumans. Unlike most people who grew up on XMen, I'm giving inhumans a chance. Especially since I'm done with Fox's xmen franchise after I disliked the vast majority of their movies and apocalypse sucked. Inhumans tv show, though, seems very rushed. They haven't even started filming, no cast has been announced, and the showrunner is still wrapping up Iron Fist. He also doesn't inspire confidence since he was involved with Dexter's latest seasons.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm worried about inhumans. Unlike most people who grew up on XMen, I'm giving inhumans a chance. Especially since I'm done with Fox's xmen franchise after I disliked the vast majority of their movies and apocalypse sucked. Inhumans tv show, though, seems very rushed. They haven't even started filming, no cast has been announced, and the showrunner is still wrapping up Iron Fist. He also doesn't inspire confidence since he was involved with Dexter's latest seasons.

I have trouble imagining Inhumans done right on a TV budget. But I also have trouble imagining a TV show on an Imax screen, so I'm hoping they have something up their sleeve.

At least the concept of a really well done Inhumans show is intriguing. The concept of AOS wouldn't interest me even if it was done better. When it comes to comic-book based properties, I want to see super-human characters doing super-human things.

Can they pull it off? I'm skeptical but willing to wait. I would have bet against HBO pulling off Game of Thrones, but they did it. Would Marvel/Disney/ABC be willing to commit the resources to making a Game of Thrones type network show? I don't know. It would be great for Marvel and great for Network programming in general, but nobody has ever done anything like that.

... of course nobody has ever featured a television show of any kind on IMax before, so that detail intrigues me and gives me some reason to hope they'll really go for it.

 

[Docker2.0]

I have trouble imagining Inhumans done right on a TV budget. But I also have trouble imagining a TV show on an Imax screen, so I'm hoping they have something up their sleeve.

At least the concept of a really well done Inhumans show is intriguing. The concept of AOS wouldn't interest me even if it was done better. When it comes to comic-book based properties, I want to see super-human characters doing super-human things.

Can they pull it off? I'm skeptical but willing to wait. I would have bet against HBO pulling off Game of Thrones, but they did it. Would Marvel/Disney/ABC be willing to commit the resources to making a Game of Thrones type network show? I don't know. It would be great for Marvel and great for Network programming in general, but nobody has ever done anything like that.

... of course nobody has ever featured a television show of any kind on IMax before, so that detail intrigues me and gives me some reason to hope they'll really go for it.

They pulled off Ghost Rider on a tv budget, which I didn't think was possible. Terra Nova was also pretty good for a tv show. Plus, Marvel seems to do wonders with budgets but look like it cost more. Guardians of the Galaxy and Dr. Strange come to mind.

 

[metaphysician]

I think ABC is trying to make it a premium show, akin to stuff like Game of Thrones. Presumably the coproduction from IMAX helps, in terms of budget. No idea how likely it is to work, though, completely aside from the "getting good writing and acting" side of things.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think ABC is trying to make it a premium show, akin to stuff like Game of Thrones. Presumably the coproduction from IMAX helps, in terms of budget. No idea how likely it is to work, though, completely aside from the "getting good writing and acting" side of things.

It will be interesting to see if the networks ever make an effort to reclaim their position (when I was younger, the only shows worth watching were on one of the three major networks) and if this is the first shot in that battle.

If this inhuman's show isn't significantly different and higher in quality than anything we've ever seen on network TV before, I think it's doomed.

Something like this:

Won't cut it in 2017.

 

[Darepool]

They will have to change their model if they want to compete long term with cable. The 8 episodes is a good sign. More money, or the same amount for less content. That's the premium model in general.

 

[The Overlord]

I have trouble imagining Inhumans done right on a TV budget. But I also have trouble imagining a TV show on an Imax screen, so I'm hoping they have something up their sleeve.

At least the concept of a really well done Inhumans show is intriguing. The concept of AOS wouldn't interest me even if it was done better. When it comes to comic-book based properties, I want to see super-human characters doing super-human things.

Can they pull it off? I'm skeptical but willing to wait. I would have bet against HBO pulling off Game of Thrones, but they did it. Would Marvel/Disney/ABC be willing to commit the resources to making a Game of Thrones type network show? I don't know. It would be great for Marvel and great for Network programming in general, but nobody has ever done anything like that.

... of course nobody has ever featured a television show of any kind on IMax before, so that detail intrigues me and gives me some reason to hope they'll really go for it.

I think the Netflix shows are better due to better writing and fewer restrictions then the ABC shows.

The ABC shows felt like a low rent version of what the movies were doing, while the Netflix shows did their own thing and explored stories we would never see in the movies.

Really network tv is not nearly as daring as cable and Netflix, I don't think this Inhumans show will change that. Throwing money at the screen doesn't make up for a bad script or lazy characters.

 

[Zarex]

The ABC shows felt like a low rent version of what the movies were doing, while the Netflix shows did their own thing and explored stories we would never see in the movies.

I give AOS an E for Effort, but it was hamstrung from the beginning by existing in real time with the cinematic MCU, traveling in similar "save the world" circles and being devoid of comic book characters anyone cared about. Hopefully these issues will be addressed for Inhumans.

 

[Dark Raven]

It will be interesting to see if the networks ever make an effort to reclaim their position (when I was younger, the only shows worth watching were on one of the three major networks) and if this is the first shot in that battle.

If this inhuman's show isn't significantly different and higher in quality than anything we've ever seen on network TV before, I think it's doomed.

Something like this:

Won't cut it in 2017.

Apparently it does:

[YT]FqmPvK-zquY[/YT][/QUOTE]

 

[Snaaaaake!]

Funny quote!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbdwa8a-z4s

Says all we need to know!

Wow first MBJ jumps on board in Black Panther. Now JLaw's putting her bid in to be with the winning team!

I wonder how people who defended her Mystique in XM:A felt when hearing this.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Unless you're RDJ in case of which they bend over and spread them wide.

True, given that they're not complete morons. RDJ is the exception that proves the rule.

 

[Darkraid]

I think the network tv model is dying. AOS S4 turn out to be pretty damn boring after 2 episodes.

The Netflix model of 13 or 8 episodes actually makes the plot and characters tight.

Don't you realize that some characters in AOS like May does virtually nothing the whole half season?

Inhumans in 8 episodes is a very good idea.

 

[ADollarADay]

I think the network tv model is dying. AOS S4 turn out to be pretty damn boring after 2 episodes.

The Netflix model of 13 or 8 episodes actually makes the plot and characters tight.

Don't you realize that some characters in AOS like May does virtually nothing the whole half season?

Inhumans in 8 episodes is a very good idea.

8-13 episodes is the sweet spot, for sure, but AOS S4 was the best one of the series yet. The best and most memorable parts of the show are when super heroes do super hero things. Lash, Hive, and the inhumans piece were the most memorable parts of S3. S4 we have Quake and Yo-Yo doing their thing, and of course the grand daddy, Ghost Rider, taking over the show. I have enjoyed S4 so far.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think the network tv model is dying. AOS S4 turn out to be pretty damn boring after 2 episodes.

The Netflix model of 13 or 8 episodes actually makes the plot and characters tight.

Don't you realize that some characters in AOS like May does virtually nothing the whole half season?

Inhumans in 8 episodes is a very good idea.

AMC, FX and even the History channel with Vikings have been producing some great, high-quality shows with this sort of short season that allows a very tight, well planned arc, but the (previous) big 3 networks seem to have been stubbornly resisting.

Sure, you can put crap like Dancing With the Stars or The Voice on and it seems people will show up every week, but in terms of quality drama, your model of 8 - 13 episodes is where it's at, and I think nearly every quality drama show we could point to (Madmen, Breaking Bad, The Americans, Fargo, Sopranos, The Wire, Dexter, Game of Thrones, Stranger Things, Daredevil etc. etc. etc.) over the past 10-20 years have used that shorter season.

And even shows like Supergirl and the Flash (which in my opinion are more entertaining (though maybe not higher quality) than AOS) insist on using a longer season while clearly not matching the quality of the kind of shows I listed above.

So, yeah, maybe I should be more focused on the idea that the Inhumans will be 8 episodes (that is official, right?) rather than the Imax thing, but both are good signs and show ABC is shaking up the standard formula that didn't work with AOS.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

8-13 episodes is the sweet spot, for sure, but AOS S4 was the best one of the series yet. The best and most memorable parts of the show are when super heroes do super hero things. Lash, Hive, and the inhumans piece were the most memorable parts of S3. S4 we have Quake and Yo-Yo doing their thing, and of course the grand daddy, Ghost Rider, taking over the show. I have enjoyed S4 so far.

Yes! That's been my biggest problem with AOS - that they seem to be afraid to have comic-book type characters. And while it seems to get gradually better as they go, they still seem too entrenched in the bad model and the super-beings are too little, too late.

And that's why, as I mentioned above, I find Flash and Supergirl more entertaining despite being lower quality shows. They actually feature superheroes.

And wasn't that the most incredibly frustrating thing about Smallville? We tuned in hoping to get Superman (or at least Superboy) and they teased and teased and teased, but refused to give us what we wanted.

 

[Aztec]

AMC, FX and even the History channel with Vikings have been producing some great, high-quality shows with this sort of short season that allows a very tight, well planned arc, but the (previous) big 3 networks seem to have been stubbornly resisting.

Sure, you can put crap like Dancing With the Stars or The Voice on and it seems people will show up every week, but in terms of quality drama, your model of 8 - 13 episodes is where it's at, and I think nearly every quality drama show we could point to (Madmen, Breaking Bad, The Americans, Fargo, Sopranos, The Wire, Dexter, Game of Thrones, Stranger Things, Daredevil etc. etc. etc.) over the past 10-20 years have used that shorter season.

And even shows like Supergirl and the Flash (which in my opinion are more entertaining (though maybe not higher quality) than AOS) insist on using a longer season while clearly not matching the quality of the kind of shows I listed above.

So, yeah, maybe I should be more focused on the idea that the Inhumans will be 8 episodes (that is official, right?) rather than the Imax thing, but both are good signs and show ABC is shaking up the standard formula that didn't work with AOS.

I have to say I agree AOS is a failure. I tried again in S4 to see Ghost Rider and while the 1st episode was great the rest was very weak. I'm over that show and 100% done now.

The Netflix shows have been by and large fantastic but I would argue all 4 thus far would have been better off with 8 instead of 13. JJ being the most notorious filler offender.

For that reason I have hopes for The Inhumans. 8 episodes focused on actual characters from the comics could be great.

I too enjoy Flash and Supergirl more than AoS even though they are of lower quality. They are fun and have actual superheroes. Arrow fell off a cliff after an amazing first two seasons and LoT is utter garbage.

 

[Web-Head]

^ a little unrelated, but Arrow is back to being season 1 and 2 quality.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think the network tv model is dying. AOS S4 turn out to be pretty damn boring after 2 episodes.

The Netflix model of 13 or 8 episodes actually makes the plot and characters tight.

Don't you realize that some characters in AOS like May does virtually nothing the whole half season?

Inhumans in 8 episodes is a very good idea.

I agree 22-24 episodes seasons are too long and tend to drag.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

8-13 episodes is the sweet spot, for sure, but AOS S4 was the best one of the series yet. The best and most memorable parts of the show are when super heroes do super hero things. Lash, Hive, and the inhumans piece were the most memorable parts of S3. S4 we have Quake and Yo-Yo doing their thing, and of course the grand daddy, Ghost Rider, taking over the show. I have enjoyed S4 so far.

This!!!

I don't know what show the other guy was watching but I've enjoyed every episode of S4 so far and look forward to it's return next year!

Top CBTV shows this so far.

1)Flash
2)AOS
3)Super Girl
4)Arrow
5)Legends of Tomorrow*

*Note I enjoy all of these shows. (Notice Gotham wasn't on the list though)

 

[Darkraid]

AMC, FX and even the History channel with Vikings have been producing some great, high-quality shows with this sort of short season that allows a very tight, well planned arc, but the (previous) big 3 networks seem to have been stubbornly resisting.

Sure, you can put crap like Dancing With the Stars or The Voice on and it seems people will show up every week, but in terms of quality drama, your model of 8 - 13 episodes is where it's at, and I think nearly every quality drama show we could point to (Madmen, Breaking Bad, The Americans, Fargo, Sopranos, The Wire, Dexter, Game of Thrones, Stranger Things, Daredevil etc. etc. etc.) over the past 10-20 years have used that shorter season.

And even shows like Supergirl and the Flash (which in my opinion are more entertaining (though maybe not higher quality) than AOS) insist on using a longer season while clearly not matching the quality of the kind of shows I listed above.

So, yeah, maybe I should be more focused on the idea that the Inhumans will be 8 episodes (that is official, right?) rather than the Imax thing, but both are good signs and show ABC is shaking up the standard formula that didn't work with AOS.

I could not agree more. Long seasons is only ok for sitcoms that last for 30 mins.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I feel the same way. It is too difficult to keep a plot interesting over 22 episodes. It usually results in a lot of filler and a string of episodes that are just going through the motions, especially in the second half before they start getting into the last few episodes.

 

[Darepool]

8-12 is the sweet spot for me. I'm not really a fan of those 3-4 episode "series" they have in the UK either. Although quality, it's far too short and spread out in between for any real satisfaction.