The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 7

[Patchwork Man]

As an aside, I very much disagree with the idea that Fox has the best female characters. They have a bunch of team characters that can't hold their own solo franchises.

Marvel has characters like Black Widow, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, Wasp, Jessica Jones, Jessica Drew, She-Hulk, Elektra, Shanna the She-Devil, etc. It dwarfs what Fox has.

IMO, Marvel should have already introduced Jennifer Walters aka She-Hulk. She could've been their first female solo headliner. She's not just the girl version of Hulk, either. There's a lot more to that character.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think She-Hulk might be able to carry a movie better than Hulk. While Hulk is the bigger character in comics, he hasn't had a hit movie yet and the general audience tend to think of him as a mostly mute, raging beast. I think She-Hulk would have broader appeal. She would be an intelligent superhero making all the wise cracks and it would fit with the typical Marvel humour in the vein of Iron Man or GOTG.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Marvel has characters like Black Widow, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, Wasp, Jessica Jones, Jessica Drew, She-Hulk, Elektra, Shanna the She-Devil, etc. It dwarfs what Fox has.

Those characters dwarf

Storm
Phoenix
Invisible Woman
Rogue
White Queen
Shadowcat
Mystique
Magik
Dazzler
Psylocke?



Majority of Marvel females are just female versions of male characters like She Hulk, Spider Woman, Shanna, or taken over male mantles like Captain Marvel.

 

[Zarex]

Eight of those FOX controlled characters have already appeared on-screen and have had pretty much zero impact.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

To give you an idea of how absurd that amount is, Disney paid $4 billion for Star Wars and Indiana Jones.

Marvel doesn't need the Fantastic Four at all. They are doing perfectly fine without them. While it would be nice to have, it is far from necessary. They aren't even worth anywhere near $1 billion, let alone 10.

What does Disney paying 4b for marvel have anything to do with what I said?

Again I NEVER said FF was worth 1-10b.


BUT


If you haven't heard people criticize MCU villains live the films or not (love demo personally)

IF FF Villains were in a MCU it would help because MCU heroes have weak rogue galleries.

Iron Man trilogy probably had the weakest three villains ever for such a popular series

Iron Man vs Doom or Sony's Osbourne would be better than any of the three films

Just like fighting Kang or Galactus is better than any villain Avengers can have not named Loki Ultron or Thanos. If you disagree with that then hey but its the truth

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Some business 101, you can't sell something based on what you think the other guy might theoretically be able to make from it

I honestly don't care I just want new X-Men cartoons n video games. But Legion isn't worth FF.

 

[Zarex]

There's really no reason to be worrying. At the absolute latest the FF character rights will be reverting in 2023. I am confident Feige and company can get the MCU through the next 7 years or so. And something is always worth nothing.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Eight of those FOX controlled characters have already appeared on-screen and have had pretty much zero impact.

The X-Men films period have had zero impact. Those characters under MCU instead of Captain Marvel Wasp etc would be bigger.



These characters are in films by people who don't love the characters like MCU movies so its a moot point. It doesn't mean the characters aren't better.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Those characters dwarf

Storm
Phoenix
Invisible Woman
Rogue
White Queen
Shadowcat
Mystique
Magik
Dazzler
Psylocke?

Most definitely. None of those are standalone characters.

Captain Marvel or Jessica Drew can anchor a solo series. Storm or Jean Grey cannot.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Most definitely.

Agree to disagree then. I'd like to see a poll result of that though.


I just think if Disney got X-Men & FF tomorrow many of those characters getting pushed now would become afterthoughts

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

I am confident Feige and company can get the MCU through the next 7 years or so.

Of course the MCU movies are my absolute favorite. Doom, Kang, Silver Surfer, Galactus, Fire-Lord, Super Skrull, Annihilus, Beyonder, Immortus, Living Monolith, Molecule Man, Terrax etc would make it stronger though is all


Hopefully MCU takes advantage of Sony's villains like Osbourne

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Captain Marvel or Jessica Drew can anchor a solo series. Storm or Jean Grey cannot.

Neither 4 has any solo movie or show so you don't know that. Storm has been around since 1975 I think African-American Directors/Writers would consider it an honor and a privilege to make a great storm TV series or movie.


It just takes creators who care


If your referring to comic solo series then Captain Marvel & Spider-Woman series get canceled after 15-25 issues routinely. Wish Storm/Jean got that many chances to strike out

 

[Darepool]

Agree to disagree then. I'd like to see a poll result of that though.


I just think if Disney got X-Men & FF tomorrow many of those characters getting pushed now would become afterthoughts

Different mediums. At a time when the mutants dominated the MU all of those characters were either given much greater attention then characters outside the X-verse, or they got swept up in the 'mutant mania' of the early-eighties to mid-nineties by osmosis...But that does not mean that you could build a more successful cinematic franchise around those characters then you could say Captain Marvel or She-Hulk, that's just crazy talk from my perspective. Captain Marvel or She-Hulk has MUCH GREATER box office/franchise potential then any of the characters you mentioned. Storm could be successful, but CM cinematically is unmatched imo. I'd add Black Widow, Jessica Drew and Ms.Marvel to the greater potential list as well.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

But that does not mean that you could build a more successful cinematic franchise around those characters then you could say Captain Marvel or She-Hulk, that's just crazy talk from my perspective. Captain Marvel or She-Hulk has MUCH GREATER box office/franchise potential then any of the characters you mentioned. Storm could be successful, but CM cinematically is unmatched imo.

I don't see whats the big deal about She-Hulk & Spider-Woman... idk I just don't like female characters that come from a male character idea. Probably main reason they wont be in a MCU film anytime soon. Scarlet Witch/Gamora/Nebula are the best MCU females to date IMO. I view Black Widow as Sharon Carter/Maria Hill status. I think Valkyrie will be top 3 by the time Avengers 4 comes out. Cap Marvel/Scarlet Witch/Valkyrie

Captain Marvel will definitely work under MCU but its still sad the original Captain Marvel gets shafted to make Carol interesting when nobody cared about her for decades. She's the biggest beneficiary of FoX's female Marvel characters not being around. But I hope that movie does great how can it not with all the cool cosmic stuff GotG set up but with a superwoman instead It should be epic

 

[Darepool]

I don't see whats the big deal about She-Hulk & Spider-Woman... idk I just don't like female characters that come from a male character idea. Scarlet Witch/Gamora/Nebula are the best MCU females to date IMO

Captain Marvel will definitely work under MCU but its still sad the original Captain Marvel gets shafted to make Carol interesting when nobody cared about her for decades. She's the biggest beneficiary of FoX's female Marvel characters not being around.

They didn't really write female characters that well for decades...It's why people often say that the X-verse female characters are the best, because they were the best written ( therefore more relevant) for a long time (in general). That has changed the last decade with some of the best written being Carol, Drew, Ms. Marvel etc. They've come out of the background and are front and center in the Marvel Universe. The MCU will reflect that going forward I'm sure, starting with Captain Marvel.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

The MCU will reflect that going forward I'm sure, starting with Captain Marvel.

I want to see a gay character. The first gay marvel hero comes from the X-Men line. They'll never go gay so hopefully Marvel does

 

[Darepool]

I'd like to see it too.

 

[wobbly]

The problem with taking a team player and trying to make a solo work is getting people interested in seeing them without all the others around.

Wolverine, probably the most popular X-Man ever, has not been able to compete with Ant-Man!!

Deadpool has been in his own self aware bubble for some time though, and that worked great for his movie.

 

[Darepool]

The problem with taking a team player and trying to make a solo work is getting people interested in seeing them without all the others around.

Wolverine, probably the most popular X-Man ever, has not been able to compete with Ant-Man!!

Deadpool has been in his own self aware bubble for some time though, and that worked great for his movie.

This is it. Kitty Pryde is my third favorite X-Men character ever, but she isn't carrying a solo film.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

But that does not mean that you could build a more successful cinematic franchise around those characters then you could say Captain Marvel or She-Hulk, that's just crazy talk from my perspective.

Going back to this for a second I don't get why people say X-Men can't have solo films.


Look @ Captain America he has alot of characters in all his "solo" films. Every single one of them actually.

So a film with a Storm or Psylovke with a X-Man or two as support characters of a specific mission against a mid level villain like a Shadow King (equivalent of a Winter Solider level for)


It just takes perfect costumes like MCU has mastered and great fight choreography which MCU has also mastered and treating characters with respect which Fox doesn't do so its a waste of time even talking about it sigh

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Wolverine, probably the most popular X-Man ever, has not been able to compete with Ant-Man!!

No Fox-Men Wolverine can't

You believe Wolverine behind a Disney hype "Revert The Rights" crowd would have heart attacks if Marvel Studios logo appeared in front a MCU Wolverine movie with a brown costume and under 5'4 height



Ant-Man without MCU isn't a big franchise. The MCU is really amazing it lifts up all the properties. X-Men in MCU would big time people would watch just because its MCU. That Marvel Studios logo carries a lot of weight

 

[Darepool]

Going back to this for a second I don't get why people say X-Men can't have solo films.


Look @ Captain America he has alot of characters in all his "solo" films. Every single one of them actually.

So a film with a Storm or Psylovke with a X-Man or two as support characters of a specific mission against a mid level villain like a Shadow King (equivalent of a Winter Solider level for)


It just takes perfect costumes like MCU has mastered and great fight choreography which MCU has also mastered and treating characters with respect which Fox doesn't do so its a waste of time even talking about it sigh

Sure, anything could potentially work if executed right, it's just in general the characters you mentioned weren't conceived as classical/solo superhero enterprises.

 

[NotNickFury]

I want to see a gay character. The first gay marvel hero comes from the X-Men line. They'll never go gay so hopefully Marvel does

Well, the closest we got was the whole Bobby 'coming out' as a mutant to his parents in X-2, and let's be real, no way would any company have had a gay superhero in its main lineup in 2003 versus today, but the landscape has changed. It'd be like if Sony tried Miles Morales as Spider-Man if Morales were around before 2011- it wouldn't have happened. It wouldn't have led to those small fringe folks calling for boycotts like when Idris Elba was announced as Heimdall, but folks would have noticed.

Though really, Banshee in First Class easily could've been gay- he was boyish and shy like Bobby Drake is anyway.

Plus, even though it was to knock someone else out, you could say that Marvel already went gay on Agent Carter.

I know, that's a big leap even for Stretch Armstrong and again, Dottie only did it to knock out Peggy, but still.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The problem with taking a team player and trying to make a solo work is getting people interested in seeing them without all the others around.

Wolverine, probably the most popular X-Man ever, has not been able to compete with Ant-Man!!

Deadpool has been in his own self aware bubble for some time though, and that worked great for his movie.

I think the main problem is that they are too tied to their respective teams and there isn't enough unique about them.

Take Sue Storm for instance. How do you divorce her from her teammates? She gets her powers in the exact same accident as them, and everything about her story is tied to the team.

The X-Men are similar. The characters aren't all that different from each other, aside from details like names, powers, and some personal history details and character quirks. 90% of X-Men have the same basic story. At some point as an adolescent their powers go out of control and they discover they are a mutant, they face persecution from humans, Xavier takes them in and teaches them how to control their powers, protect those that hate and fear them, et cetera, et cetera. All their relationships, villains, etc. are the same as the other members of the team. There are no real fundamental differences among most X-Men members. Wolverine is one of the few that is unique.

Compare that to the Avengers. The Avengers is a team made up of individual heroes, unlike Fantastic Four or X-Men. Iron Man is completely different from Thor. Hulk has little in common with Hawkeye. Captain America has his own supporting characters and villains that are unique to him. So do Spider-Man and Black Panther. The only thing that really connects them together are that they are Avengers. That's why they all work as solos.

 

[Darkraid]

I'd probably not be interested in an Ant-Man or Dr Strange movie if it is not in MCU. People watch Marvel Studios movies because they know each movie is a part of something bigger.

#justsaying

I was pretty disappointed that in The Wolverine, Logan ended the movie in bone claws but in DOFP he has metal claws again. WTF