The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread IX

[Avengers-Report]

the fight at the city hall with Bane on the stairs is when Batman returns back. it is the old suit. maybe he wil have a new suit for the final fight, which they will IMO not show in promotion

How are you so certain that is when he returns?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

That is all irrelevant.

Yes, to you.

Sure, rubber is more durable than fabric in reality (which it why tires are made of rubber, but Batman is not a tire), but you are not suggesting that the Batsuit is supposed to be seen to be rubber any more than I am suggesting that a fabric-based costume would be described as "cotton" or whatever. Both would be described in the same pseudo-scientific BS terms already used in the movie, but the fabric based costume would allow the actor much better freedom of movement, be cooler, look nicer, and allow him to look more like Batman. In my opinion, obviously.

That it is, but many disagree with it. Fabric over body armor spells disaster.

Now, you original point was that rubber had been "proven" to be more visually appealing and "reliable" than fabric (despite fabric never having been tried). You went on to warn that a fabric costume might fade or tear. I don't understand your basis for this concern, given that almost every character in every movie ever made has worn a fabric costume that, sure enough, probably needed the odd touch-up between takes.

WB wouldn't allow for such a test to happen with hundreds of millions of dollars on the line.

Who? Iron Man?.. Green Lantern?.. Captain America?.. Thor?.. Wolverine?.. Superman?.. Spiderman?.. The Punisher?..

The only other meaning I can affix to your comments is that you think audiences will only accept rubber as a representation of bullet-proof or otherwise resilient material. Is this genuinely what you believe?

Yes, because it's a discussion that's happened before with fellow classmates, co-workers, strangers, etc. I can assure you, a fabric-based suit wasn't well-perceived amongst those who generally don't read comics.

 

[dark_b]

How are you so certain that is when he returns?

i dont want ot be a jackass. but i can not writte everything that we know. to much info

here is the pics thread and story spoilers thread
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=353189&page=13
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=361847

 

[regwec]

Fabric over body armor spells disaster.

In your unfounded opinion!

WB wouldn't allow for such a test to happen with hundreds of millions of dollars on the line.

You are contending that using fabric/padding on the Batsuit would lose WB hundreds of millions of dollars?

Who? Iron Man?.. Green Lantern?.. Captain America?.. Thor?.. Wolverine?.. Superman?.. Spiderman?.. The Punisher?..

How about Bane? He is wearing a fabric costume with padding. How the hell can that work?! He ought to be wearing a "reliable" rubber wetsuit, right?

But I am not confining this to superhero movies. Your central argument in favour of rubber seems to be its apparent durability. Okay. But most characters in most movies do not wear rubber wetsuits. Think how much time must have been spent by the wardrobe department on LOTR, patching up and repairing fabric. Or think about how much maintenance Keira Knightly's elaborate costumes must have required on the POTC shoots. This sort of thing is why there are costume departments. Neither case led to the production eschewing fabrics in favour of more "reliable" materials like rubber.

I am still unsure whether I am understanding you properly, since the need to employ a seamstress seems to be a preposterously weak argument against using textiles in costumes.

Yes, because it's a discussion that's happened before with fellow classmates, co-workers, strangers, etc. I can assure you, a fabric-based suit wasn't well-perceived amongst those who generally don't read comics.

What fabric based suit? And why are you talking to strangers about this stuff?

 

[DKDetective]

Odd. I always thought Batman and Superman, and almost every other DC hero... especially in promotional artwork that is still common today(where it looks like Neal Adams or Jim Aparo did the work)... all have the exact same physique. All the Super Powers promo art, which I still see everywhere today, looks like they used the exact same body templates for every male character.

I think Lee's Batman is great. Nearly perfect in most ways. Sure, the ears are short... but that harkens back to a good chunk of Batman's comic history. A good deal of the 40s, 50s and 60s had the shorter ears. Kane/Finger and Adams/O'Neill did longer ears and that stuck for a good long while. But then we have Miller and Machuzelli popularizing the short-eared design. Seems most comics have found a median design on that front for the last decade or so.

Maybe you are right about the body types, I've never read much Justice League, and other group comics. The examples that stick in my head are TDKR, the Byrne reboot and the differences between their individual books from their era. I just see Adams drawing Batman as slimmerand leaner and Byrne and whoever else drew Superman back then drawing Superman as broader and more bulky.

 

[Lencho01]

I thought this was interesting...

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/12/comicsalliance-reviews-dark-knight-part-2/

Andy: As nearly everything in these films, the Batman costume is practical -- i.e. real. The notion of separating the armor plates seems so simple, but it improves not just the wearer's performance but also makes it look a lot better than the version from Batman Begins. I'm afraid I can't find in my notes the name of the gentlemen who walked us through it, but he said that if someone was wearing the Dark Knight costume in a street fight with several thugs and knew what they were doing in terms of self defense, they would kick a lot of ass (unless someone just shot them, of course).​

​

 

[Boom]

I guess nobody was interesting in my awesome "spider silk/liquid armor/d3o" post .

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Honestly, if Sam Raimi can deliver a comic book accurate Spider-Man costume on screen that also looks cinematic and cool (and not like a cheap halloween costume), I see no reason why they couldn't make one for Batman. It wouldn't fit Nolan's sensibilities, but he's not going to be around after The Dark Knight Rises is finished anyway.

 

[SimonTrent]

I guess nobody was interesting in my awesome "spider silk/liquid armor/d3o" post .

I thought that was fascinating post and excatly the direction Nolan SHOULD have gone.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

In your unfounded opinion!

That's right it is.

You are contending that using fabric/padding on the Batsuit would lose WB hundreds of millions of dollars?

No, I'm saying WB doesn't want to take chances in finding out.

How about Bane? He is wearing a fabric costume with padding. How the hell can that work?! He ought to be wearing a "reliable" rubber wetsuit, right?

But I am not confining this to superhero movies. Your central argument in favour of rubber seems to be its apparent durability. Okay. But most characters in most movies do not wear rubber wetsuits. Think how much time must have been spent by the wardrobe department on LOTR, patching up and repairing fabric. Or think about how much maintenance Keira Knightly's elaborate costumes must have required on the POTC shoots. This sort of thing is why there are costume departments. Neither case led to the production eschewing fabrics in favour of more "reliable" materials like rubber.

I am still unsure whether I am understanding you properly, since the need to employ a seamstress seems to be a preposterously weak argument against using textiles in costumes.

Bane is wearing a tactical vest!

Understandable, but Batman is a different take on a character who has taken extreme measures to fight crime in a proficient manner. The fact that he is a loner with a no-kill policy makes him a unique individual. He needs to depend on armor or exoskeleton-ish suits, gadgets, strategy and fighting prowless to take down an opponent or threat. He isn't a pirate or a CIA agent.

Different tactics lead to different approaches (which sometimes includes attire).

What fabric based suit? And why are you talking to strangers about this stuff?

Any type of fabric-based suit. More than half didn't fancy the idea.

Haha, it just happens whenever I'm around a fanbase crowd. The topic happens to come up a lot more than one assumes.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Maybe because when they think fabric-based suit they think "Adam West". If they saw it and it looked good and cinematic (like the Spider-Man movie costumes), they would probably fancy the idea quite well.

 

[Electric Sixx]

I have a request, a year or two ago I was looking through one of these threads and someone posted a brilliant manip combining the Begins and TDK suit. They used the white background promo shots of the tdk suit mostly I believe. I'd really appreciate it if anyone knows what I'm talking about and happened to save them.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Spiderman can pull off a fabric-based suit because of his superhuman abilities.

Batman doesn't have the reflexes of spider.

 

[intothevoid]

I have a request, a year or two ago I was looking through one of these threads and someone posted a brilliant manip combining the Begins and TDK suit. They used the white background promo shots of the tdk suit mostly I believe. I'd really appreciate it if anyone knows what I'm talking about and happened to save them.

I've been looking for that pic too - it was brilliant! Would love for somoene to post it t:

 

[Boom]

And James Bond wears a dress suit, while going up against multiple armed foes at a time. Yet no one seems to complain about him not being decked out in full-swat gear. He doesn't even wear so much as a bullet-proof vest.

Suspension of disbelief. A fabric-based suit CAN be made to look like protective gear, and can be just as easily explained as such. We don't have to limit our imaginations just because rubber is all that's been utilized up to now.

Doomsday, if you haven't read my previous post, please do so. Tear-resistant fabric treated with high-impact fluid, and lined with high-impact padding. Hell, you would've even have to suspend your disbelief. These are all real-world armor technologies being developed. Explain the technology in the film, and you're golden.

The result: a fabric-based, streamlined, organic-looking batsuit that can pass as viable body protection.

 

[itsthebatman]

I guess nobody was interesting in my awesome "spider silk/liquid armor/d3o" post .

It was awesome. YOU'RE awesome.
You seem like you need cheering up.

And James Bond wears a suit, while going up against multiple armed foes at a time. Yet no one seems to complain about him not being decked out in full-swat gear.

Suspension of disbelief. A fabric-based suit CAN be made to look like protective gear, and can be just as easily explained as such.

Doomsday, if you haven't read my previous post, please do so. Tear-resistant fabric treated with high-impact fluid, and lined with high-impact padding. All real-world armor technologies being developed.

The result: a fabric-based, streamlined, organic-looking batsuit.

I honestly think people just have the idea of 'rubber suit = body armour' fixed in their heads and are totally unable to accept any other possibility.
John McClane wore a vest, for God's sake! And we accepted that. We're not supposed to accept that, with a little exposition, a fabric type suit made of one of these modern technologies, with a kevlar body plate underneath if the rubber-suiters demand it, built for a man with practically unlimited resources, could do the job? Are people really, honestly, that afraid of a little risk-taking?

WHY DON'T PEOPLE WANT BATMAN TO LOOK LIKE BATMAN?

 

[Boom]

People also have a tendency to overlook the fact that Batman operates in the shadows and uses diversionary tactics (cutting power to the building, using smoke bombs, using batarangs, etc.) to draw his opponents off guard - allowing him to pick them off one by one. He rarely fights large groups of people out in the open unless absolutely necessary. And even then, he is so highly trained in combat (both offense and defensive) that he can disarm and incapacitate multiple foes at a time. So I'm not quite sure why he has to be decked out like a tank - when his greatest asset has always been in strategy.

Sure, he'll take a stray bullet or a knife jab every once in a while. But again, nobody has suggested that Batman wear a fabric costume with NO protection.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

This is starting to get incredibly redundant.

I'm done trying to explain to you (of all people) that Batman is not James Bond nor John McClane. I would think you fans could understand the subtle differences between a spy or NYPD cop and a lone ninjutsu-inspired crime fighter.

Batman does not kill, therefore, making his job more difficult to accomplish.

As for the alternative options, they have yet to be proven effective. It's merely speculation, thus the general audience will not buy the idea in a live-action Batman flick. Why do you think it's never been done before on the big screen?

 

[itsthebatman]

This is starting to get incredibly redundant.

I'm done trying to explain to you (of all people) that Batman is not James Bond nor John McClane. I would think you fans could understand the subtle differences between a spy or NYPD cop and a lone ninjutsu-inspired crime fighter.

Batman does not kill, therefore, making his job more difficult to accomplish.

But he does take his enemies out from a distance with the Batarangs.

As for the alternative options, they have yet to be proven effective. It's merely speculation, thus the general audience will not buy the idea in a live-action Batman flick. Why do you think it's never been done before on the big screen?

How do you know this? I mean, really KNOW it? The general audience buys a lot of things. They've bought the idea of ninjas destroying cities, microwave emitters, a seriously well-organised and seemingly all-knowing Joker - why can't they suspend their disbelief for an armoured costume with the APPEARANCE of fabric, one that would be as well armoured as any kevlar/rubber suit?

 

[Boom]

This is starting to get incredibly redundant.

I'm done trying to explain to you (of all people) that Batman is not James Bond nor John McClane.

I am so terribly sorry to inconvenience you in any way .

Batman does not kill, therefore, making his job alot more difficult to do.

No, it really doesn't - considering his resources and tactics. He strategizes, he levels the playing field, and he's highly trained. Please note the very first scene with Batman in Batman Begins. He destroyed the lights, he picked them off one-by-one. They couldn't see him, and they couldn't hit him (because he was swooping in and out of the darkness that he had created around him). All the while, he's picking them apart like a predator. They were scared, thus making them psychologically vulnerable. And when he does finally engage multiple foes, he does so in close-quarters combat - throwing them into a state of confusion and disarray.

Now, how many times did he actually get shot or stabbed at in that scene? For that matter, how many times has Batman actually been shot/stabbed in these films to warrant being decked out the way that he is? Christ, the way he's dressed, you'd think the man was walking directly into machine-gun fire on a night-to-night basis.

As for the alternative options, they have yet to be proven effective. It's merely speculation, thus the general audience will not buy the idea in a live-action Batman flick. Why do you think it's never been done before on the big screen?

So because they haven't been proven effective yet, we should just completely close our minds to the possibility of ANYTHING besides rubber? Is that what we should do?

Audiences won't buy it just because it hasn't been done before?

I respect you, Doomsday, but that line of logic is just pure utter ********. I'm sorry.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Because I've talked to fans who don't read comics about the idea, and it doesn't fly with them. It's nearly universally panned by them. Out of the hundreds I've talked to on the subject of the Batsuit, I only remember 15-20 saying it would be 'awesome'.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Spiderman can pull off a fabric-based suit because of his superhuman abilities.

Batman doesn't have the reflexes of spider.

Batman is the peak of physical and mental fitness. He may not have superpowers, but he is still a superhero, and if James Bond and Indiana Jones can do absurd action sequences in their movies with NO body armor of any kind and still bring truck loads of people to the theater to see their movies, why the hell couldn't Batman do the same?

Just because we've been using rubber suits since 1989 doesn't mean we have to continue doing so, and quite honestly, it's more than a little stale in terms of the look. I wouldn't mind something different for a change.

 

[Boom]

Because I've talked to fans who don't read comics about the idea, and it doesn't fly with them. It's nearly universally panned by them. Out of the hundreds I've talked to on the subject of the Batsuit, I only remember 15-20 saying it would be 'awesome'.

Hundreds =/= the millions that make up the "general audience."

That is not nearly enough data to make the claim that you're making. Not even close.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I think that there's a right way and a wrong way to design a fabric Batsuit. I'd recommend adding a texture or pattern, to catch eye a bit more than cloth, perhaps with some additional details, such as a somewhat padded appearance on the torso to suggest additional layers of kevlar underneath it. The really hard part is the cowl. I think it might be best to keep the cowl's rigidity, personally. Thoughts?

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Because I've talked to fans who don't read comics about the idea, and it doesn't fly with them. It's nearly universally panned by them. Out of the hundreds I've talked to on the subject of the Batsuit, I only remember 15-20 saying it would be 'awesome'.

That's because the only image of Batman they have in their head is that of the movies that have already been made. Why should we not try different things just because a select group of people you talked to don't understand the concept right off the bat (pardon the pun)?