The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread

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[Mr. Earle]

Dont take my posts to the letter, try to get what i'm saying. If you want full out logic then Batman shouldnt even fight, just use darts with sedative, knock out gases and tazers. Does he do that? No he fights like he is supposed to. Therefore people should stop with this practicality crap. Batman doesnt really need pads, straps, breathing devices or whatever.

 

[Saint]

Dont take my posts to the letter, try to get what i'm saying.

Maybe you need to communicate better, because you wrote that "looks" are more important than internal logic. They are not, period. If that's not what you were saying, then you should have written a completely different sentence.

If you want full out logic then Batman shouldnt even fight, just use darts with sedative, knock out gases and tazers.

Except, no. Internal logic doesn't mean maximum realism. It refers to logic internal to the story; what makes sense in the fictional universe as opposed to the real one. For example, in a Superman film, kyptonite functioning in a consistent way is an example of internal logic. So adhering to internal logic doesn't mean going down some silly slippery slope of realism you've dreamed up.

It means that the universe makes sense within it's established confines and rule sets--and in this universe, the internal logic necessitates a level of practicality and does inform the way Batman looks, and yes, maintaining a story logic that is consistent and makes sense is important. Batman Forever is an example of a sequel that ignores the internal logic of it's predecessors, and the result is disastrous.

 

[moe]

Maybe you need to communicate better, because you wrote that "looks" are more important than internal logic. They are not, period. If that's not what you were saying, then you should have written a completely different sentence.


Except, no. Internal logic doesn't mean maximum realism. It refers to logic internal to the story; what makes sense in the fictional universe as opposed to the real one. For example, in a Superman film, kyptonite functioning in a consistent way is an example of internal logic. So adhering to internal logic doesn't mean going down some silly slippery slope of realism you've dreamed up.

It means that the universe makes sense within it's established confines and rule sets--and in this universe, the internal logic necessitates a level of practicality and does inform the way Batman looks, and yes, maintaining a story logic that is consistent and makes sense is important. Batman Forever is an example of a sequel that ignores the internal logic of it's predecessors, and the result is disastrous.

exactly... bruce is supposed to be extremely intelligent... maticulous.... and very logical... so if that is his greatest strength... then seeking optimal protection in order to serve as a force against crime is vital to his character... it would be extremely bizare to say that this is one of the greatest minds in the world... yet he fights crime in a cotton/polyester blend...

 

[Mr. Earle]

It means that the universe makes sense within it's established confines and rule sets--and in this universe, the internal logic necessitates a level of practicality and does inform the way Batman looks, and yes, maintaining a story logic that is consistent and makes sense is important.

I get that but no one is suggesting anything weird, just a better batsuit. The response is always "but its not realistic or practical and rubber is". Well just like they designed everything with both practicality and looks in mind they should do the same for the suit.

Batman Forever is an example of a sequel that ignores the internal logic of it's predecessors, and the result is disastrous.

It failed because it was a cheesefest. What rules did it ignore?

exactly... bruce is supposed to be extremely intelligent... maticulous.... and very logical... so if that is his greatest strength... then seeking optimal protection in order to serve as a force against crime is vital to his character... it would be extremely bizare to say that this is one of the greatest minds in the world... yet he fights crime in a cotton/polyester blend...

No one is suggesting spandex.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Maybe you need to communicate better, because you wrote that "looks" are more important than internal logic. They are not, period. If that's not what you were saying, then you should have written a completely different sentence.


Except, no. Internal logic doesn't mean maximum realism. It refers to logic internal to the story; what makes sense in the fictional universe as opposed to the real one. For example, in a Superman film, kyptonite functioning in a consistent way is an example of internal logic. So adhering to internal logic doesn't mean going down some silly slippery slope of realism you've dreamed up.

It means that the universe makes sense within it's established confines and rule sets--and in this universe, the internal logic necessitates a level of practicality and does inform the way Batman looks, and yes, maintaining a story logic that is consistent and makes sense is important. Batman Forever is an example of a sequel that ignores the internal logic of it's predecessors, and the result is disastrous.

QFT. If you believe that looks should trump internal logic, go watch the Joel Schumacher Batman movies.

 

[Boom]

Earle, thank you for one of the funniest dog pictures I have ever seen.

 

[Lencho01]

So... is this discussion now about how practical the Batsuit has to be/look?

 

[TheBatman072]

Dont take my posts to the letter, try to get what i'm saying. If you want full out logic then Batman shouldnt even fight, just use darts with sedative, knock out gases and tazers. Does he do that? No he fights like he is supposed to. Therefore people should stop with this practicality crap. Batman doesnt really need pads, straps, breathing devices or whatever.

Really?

He uses them in both the comics and the Animated Series.

What are you talking about?

 

[Saint]

I get that but no one is suggesting anything weird, just a better batsuit.

Yes, I know. I'm not telling you there can't be a better batsuit--we both know I don't think that. I'm only responding to statements you've made that are flawed.

It failed because it was a cheesefest. What rules did it ignore?

The internal logic simply was not consistent, and the film no longer made sense as part of the universe. Gotham looked completely different; that is not logically consistent. Batman acted completely different; that is not logically consistent. A neon goddamn Batmobile was not consistent with the established universe. It betrayed the internal logic of Burton's films the same way it would if Bale showed up in TDKR with a pair of rocket boots and teamed up with Swamp Thing.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Earle, thank you for one of the funniest dog pictures I have ever seen.

My pleasure! t:

So... is this discussion now about how practical the Batsuit has to be/look?

I guess so.

Really?

He uses them in both the comics and the Animated Series.

What are you talking about?

I meant permanently.

The internal logic simply was not consistent, and the film no longer made sense as part of the universe. Gotham looked completely different; that is not logically consistent. Batman acted completely different; that is not logically consistent. A neon goddamn Batmobile was not consistent with the established universe. It betrayed the internal logic of Burton's films the same way it would if Bale showed up in TDKR with a pair of rocket boots and teamed up with Swamp Thing.

But they redesigned everything to move away from Burton's movies, even if they took their continuity for granted. Nobody went to the cinema expecting to see Keaton, we all new they changed things.

Thus I dont think the movies failed because of that. They failed because of the cheese, the barely existant plots and the limited supply of ice puns. If only there were more!

 

[Saint]

But they redesigned everything to move away from Burton's movies, even if they took their continuity for granted. Nobody went to the cinema expecting to see Keaton, we all new they changed things.

It doesn't really matter; they referenced the previous films specifically, indicating they were in the same continuity. Keaton isn't the issue; it was that it was clearly no longer anything like that universe, yet claimed it was still a part of it. If you're in the same continuity, you're in the same continuity--you can't half ass it and start doing whatever you want; that doesn't make any sense.

That's one of the problems with Superman Returns, too.

Thus I dont think the movies failed because of that. They failed because of the cheese, the barely existant plots and the limited supply of ice puns. If only there were more!

It's not why they failed, but it contributed to the failure; they failed because they were bad, and betraying the internal logic of the series was merely one of the reasons they were bad.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I took it in the same way i take a change of writer or artist in comics.

Besides you can pretend that the Schumacher films were seperate from the Burton ones. Thematically they were. They still suck on their own. If they were good films nobody would have minded the change from Burton's style.

I honestly dont think that the general audience cares for continuity, they just go and watch a batman movie. If its good its good, if its bad its bad. BF and especially B&R were bad. BR was bad as well even if it "didnt ignore the rules" by your logic but B89 clouds people's judgement and BR is overrated as good.

 

[Godzilla2014]

It doesn't really matter; they referenced the previous films specifically, indicating they were in the same continuity. Keaton isn't the issue; it was that it was clearly no longer anything like that universe, yet claimed it was still a part of it. If you're in the same continuity, you're in the same continuity--you can't half ass it and start doing whatever you want; that doesn't make any sense.

That's one of the problems with Superman Returns, too.


It's not why they failed, but it contributed to the failure; they failed because they were bad, and betraying the internal logic of the series was merely one of the reasons they were bad.

I agree. I think you are also forgetting the Schumacher Batman movies lack internal logic in the movies themselves. BATMAN FOREVER and especially BATMAN & ROBIN are chocked to the gills with unnecessary BS gadgets that appear in one scene are forgotten by the next.

 

[Saint]

I took it in the same way i take a change of writer or artist in comics.

If that's what you want to do, power to you, I guess.

I honestly dont think that the general audience cares for continuity,

I don't agree with this statement. The general audience aren't morons, and while many probably didn't care about the difference, I'm sure many did. Contrary to popular belief, the audience does, in fact, have a brain, and generally understands the relationships between films and their sequels.

It doesn't really matter either way, though, since I don't care what the general audience thought, really. The logic gap was stupid whether they noticed or not.

Also? Batman Returns was awesome, and remains awesome to this day.

 

[JAK®]

Something like that may have been a valid thing for Alfred to question in BB but it's a little late for that.

If you or anyone else doesn't care for the black rubber, that's fine but anyone who thinks Nolan and Hemming are going to change things up in that manner in the world they have already established is simply delusional.

I love posts like this. "Well, you've got me there, but it's not going to change, so NYAH!"

No, I don't expect Nolan to switch to a more comic-accurate Batsuit in TDKR. I have never claimed that he would. All I'm doing is saying that it could be done if he chose to.

 

[Lencho01]

I guess so.

Given that this is a film, I don't see much point for how practical the suit has to be other than allowing the actor to be able to move and whatnot. Anything else is kinda pointless since we're dealing with a fictional character that dresses like a bat.

But, since it seems we're now in a time where people like everything explained, you could have someone talk about a suit that doesn't exactly looks like armor, but was made of some made up material that was. Or you could simply not have Bruce ever get shot. Though that isn't "realistic" for some people I guess.

Anyway, I don't think anyone is expecting a more comics-looking/accurate Batsuit from Nolan and co.

 

[BatScot]

it would be extremely bizare to say that this is one of the greatest minds in the world... yet he fights crime in a cotton/polyester blend...

Almost as bizarre as those who think anyone here has ever suggested a batsuit be made of a cotton/polyester blend material.

 

[BatScot]

I dont think the [Schumacher Batman] movies failed because of that. They failed because of ...

Look whether it's "cheese" or "continuity" or whatever, it doesn't matter; Forever and B&R failed period. So fill in the blank 'The Schumacher Batman films failed because of ______' and your going to be right. For example, 'The Schumacher Batman films failed because of doughnuts' works.. Why? Well because it really doesn't matter what comes after the words 'The Schumacher Batman films failed'. That's all that needs to be said and that's as much consideration those wastes of celluloid deserve from us.

 

[ChickenScratch]

I wouldn't call Schumacher's films failures. After all, BF was t he biggest grossing of the bat movies till BB came along. It did well and got him a sequel. I may not like those films (I wanted out on BF) but I wouldn't call them failures.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I wouldn't call Schumacher's films failures. After all, BF was t he biggest grossing of the bat movies till BB came along. It did well and got him a sequel. I may not like those films (I wanted out on BF) but I wouldn't call them failures.

No, B89 was the highest grossing Bat-film. I do however, think BF isn't nearly as bad as B&R, it just gets grouped with that film. BF had some pretty solid parts.

 

[ChickenScratch]

You sure? I was wrong on the BF thing, but this site has some interesting numbers - http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/series/Batman.php

 

[BatScot]

I wouldn't call Schumacher's films failures. After all, BF was t he biggest grossing of the bat movies till BB came along. It did well and got him a sequel. I may not like those films (I wanted out on BF) but I wouldn't call them failures.

Perhaps if you are an accountant. But for most everyone else, failures.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I actually kinda like BF. It gets quite a lot of things right. I also like B&R because its hilarious. Its like watching the Adam West show. In fact my worst Batman movie is BR. That **** was crazy.