The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread IX

[Mister Meddle]

Just like the rubber suit over a fish net outfit wouldn't be effective in a battlefield due to the massive weight & lack of flexibility. The approach is still more convincing than somebody wearing a suit that's heavier than his weekly groceries. There were a number of times when I went jogging with a heavy vest (about 30 pounds) and even that's a challenge. The bulky DK suit is semi convincing but it's far from being realistic.

 

[EliteF50]

Begins suit is my 2nd favorite. But IMO the Returns suit is the best. It has a lot to do with the perfect cowl.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[HUMANIMAL]

alright ...a new suit itself wont beat bane...but this is the batsuit discussion threat and not the how will bruce change during the film to be able to fight against bane....and i dont think that a new suit towards the end reduces from his inner struggles and preparations....the way i thought it could be is: hey look he is back ...better than evaaaaaa

 

[Pho3nix]

But here lies the tradeoff:

With Batman losing the bodysuit and/or plating, it'll leave Batman more exposed. Batman can only wear so much body armor before it starts weighing as much as the bodysuit does. While he'll be faster and more agile, he's prune to receiving more life-threating wounds.

 

[craigdbfan]

 

[TerryMcGinnis]

Don't act so surprised Mr. Wayne!

 

[Jalexander]

While that would be ingenious, spider silk and liquid armor have yet to be proven effective in the battlefield.

I'm going to be keeping a close eye on these elements. The next Batman film is likely to arrive in theaters 6-7 years from now, so we'll see where we are at with the new thinner and lighter materials.

Liquid armor, especially, has been highly unstable.

You don't need spider silk and liquid armour. All you need is to show Bruce wearing an under-armour suit similar in style to the nomex survival suit before it was painted in BB. He would then slip the fabric costume over it.

In real-life, however, the actor will not actually be wearing the armour underneath. What he could wear is a 'muscle suit' of sorts that does simulate the effect of under-armour. Which wouldn't be any different to what the actors in the Raimi Spider-Man films and the Singer/Snyder Superman films wear underneath their costumes.

The fabric suit itself will appear to be a sturdy material, similar to what Captain America wears in The Avengers.

 

[TerryMcGinnis]

Exactly, and after seeing Snyder's take on the Superman suit I have no doubt that something just as impressive looking could be pulled off for Batman, the armor being shown in a scene like you suggest. Here's hoping for something like that in the next series.

 

[DaveMoral]

DMG, that is your opinion, but to me (and several members) Captain America looks like a boy in that suit. Sure, you could try to debate that the suit only looks awful because of the angles and lighting but let's face it, those who see a ten year old trick-or-treating are going to continue to see a ten year trick-or-treating. No amount of editing is going to help the issue.

Thank Shiva The Destroyer that Batman did not meet The Captain's unfortunate fate.

The whole 10 year old trick or treating thing is just as hyperbolic as folks saying the TDK suit doesn't look anything like Batman.

 

[DaveMoral]

While that would be ingenious, spider silk and liquid armor have yet to be proven effective in the battlefield.

I'm going to be keeping a close eye on these elements. The next Batman film is likely to arrive in theaters 6-7 years from now, so we'll see where we are at with the new thinner and lighter materials.

Liquid armor, especially, has been highly unstable.

I still don't know why you think this is an actual argument. It's not. The Future Warrior body armor suits have yet to be proven either, and that's definitely what TDK takes it's cues from. Furthermore, there's plenty of stuff about Batman in these films that we take for granted but are in no way proven or even currently possible.

Take, for instance, the grappling gun. Sure there are grappling guns, but they are essentially RPG launchers with a big case full of rope that has to be carried around and a far more extensive harness and winch system than the Batsuit uses in these movies. Yet we buy it. The electro cape/glider set up is probably the least realistic thing about this Batman and we still accept it. Why does the body armor need to be what's actually proven? If Wayne Enterprises can develop and make functional things that are not possible right now and Batman can then use them, why would spider silk or liquid armor be out of the realm of not only possibility, but plausibility. The whole point of what Nolan's been doing is taking things that are real or in development and advancing them quite a bit beyond where they currently are and saying "here's Batman."

Just because you are more stringent in your body armor evaluation does not mean the general audience will be. They are going to be far more open to explanations for spider silk or liquid armor or dragon scale armor than you seem to realize. Hells bells, they'd do another Batman Tech thing on the Science Channel and tell us all about how those things are real and in development and possible in the not too distant future... and then they'd put it in the special features on the Blu-Ray and digital releases.

It's that simple.

Alternately, they could say he's wearing a layer of extra strong, but flexible, advance kevlar body armor under the heavy fabric of his body suit. And folks would buy it.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Exactly, and after seeing Snyder's take on the Superman suit I have no doubt that something just as impressive looking could be pulled off for Batman, the armor being shown in a scene like you suggest. Here's hoping for something like that in the next series.

Nolan & crew more than likely had a hand in the suit's design.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Soooo, nothing? I figured.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

The whole 10 year old trick or treating thing is just as hyperbolic as folks saying the TDK suit doesn't look anything like Batman.

Disagree, and so do others. Our debate is that Captain America does appear to be wearing an actual halloween costume.

I still don't know why you think this is an actual argument. It's not. The Future Warrior body armor suits have yet to be proven either, and that's definitely what TDK takes it's cues from. Furthermore, there's plenty of stuff about Batman in these films that we take for granted but are in no way proven or even currently possible.

Take, for instance, the grappling gun. Sure there are grappling guns, but they are essentially RPG launchers with a big case full of rope that has to be carried around and a far more extensive harness and winch system than the Batsuit uses in these movies. Yet we buy it. The electro cape/glider set up is probably the least realistic thing about this Batman and we still accept it. Why does the body armor need to be what's actually proven? If Wayne Enterprises can develop and make functional things that are not possible right now and Batman can then use them, why would spider silk or liquid armor be out of the realm of not only possibility, but plausibility. The whole point of what Nolan's been doing is taking things that are real or in development and advancing them quite a bit beyond where they currently are and saying "here's Batman."

Just because you are more stringent in your body armor evaluation does not mean the general audience will be. They are going to be far more open to explanations for spider silk or liquid armor or dragon scale armor than you seem to realize. Hells bells, they'd do another Batman Tech thing on the Science Channel and tell us all about how those things are real and in development and possible in the not too distant future... and then they'd put it in the special features on the Blu-Ray and digital releases.

It's that simple.

Alternately, they could say he's wearing a layer of extra strong, but flexible, advance kevlar body armor under the heavy fabric of his body suit. And folks would buy it.

I've already been in this discussion with Boom, and while I can put up with grapple guns, memory cloth, tumblers, etc I would perfer that they stick to more reality than fantasy or unproven theories when coming to Batman's armor. Yes, Batman's DK suit is based on a supersoldier's bullet resistant body armor yet Kevlar plating and Nomex material have been proven effective in dealing with harmful elements. Not always a 100% guaranteed but then again, what material is?

I know alot of fans desperately want a fabric-based suit but there's a reason why Batman went from cloth to rubber on the big screen. The directors and writers wanted the appearance of armor because it's highly possible and relatable. The image of Batman wearing fabric could come with a risk of it being taken not seriously by the general audience. An exoskeleton suit, however, holds the image/aura of it being powerful.

By the way, Dragon Skin was proven effective. A shame the military and government aren't willing to spend big money on protecting their heroes.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

You don't need spider silk and liquid armour. All you need is to show Bruce wearing an under-armour suit similar in style to the nomex survival suit before it was painted in BB. He would then slip the fabric costume over it.

In real-life, however, the actor will not actually be wearing the armour underneath. What he could wear is a 'muscle suit' of sorts that does simulate the effect of under-armour. Which wouldn't be any different to what the actors in the Raimi Spider-Man films and the Singer/Snyder Superman films wear underneath their costumes.

The fabric suit itself will appear to be a sturdy material, similar to what Captain America wears in The Avengers.

Yet the fans' argument will continue to be that the body armor is still probably too heavy and inflexible. I wouldn't mind seeing something in that nature underneath a fabric-based suit. Like I told DMG, I like the design to Captain America's suit, but it doesn't translate well once it's on Chris Evans. It appears odd and a bit comical. If it were me, I'd make changes to the cowl and cloth material.

 

[ronjer]

Damn! That is just funny. t:

 

[DaveMoral]

Disagree, and so do others. Our debate is that Captain America does appear to be wearing an actual halloween costume.




I've already been in this discussion with Boom, and while I can put up with grapple guns, memory cloth, tumblers, etc I would perfer that they stick to more reality than fantasy or unproven theories when coming to Batman's armor. Yes, Batman's DK suit is based on a supersoldier's bullet resistant body armor yet Kevlar plating and Nomex material have been proven effective in dealing with harmful elements. Not always a 100% guaranteed but then again, what material is?

I know alot of fans desperately want a fabric-based suit but there's a reason why Batman went from cloth to rubber on the big screen. The directors and writers wanted the appearance of armor because it's highly possible and relatable. The image of Batman wearing fabric could come with a risk of it being taken not seriously by the general audience. An exoskeleton suit, however, holds the image/aura of it being powerful.

By the way, Dragon Skin was proven effective. A shame the military and government aren't willing to spend big money on protecting their heroes.

Again, the whole "it looks like a Halloween costume" thing is hyperbole. There's nothing to disagree with, that's precisely what it is.

What you can tolerate in your suspension of disbelief is hardly indicative of general audiences and it is not a valid argument against the ideas that have been proposed. And Batman went to a rubber costume because that was the best way at the time to convey the comic physique. I don't even agree that that is necessary for Batman. Rubber has been just as goofy as spandex was. And if general audiences are going to believe Captain America in a fabric costume, which they have in TFA and will in Avengers, that alone would prime them for Batman in a similar outfit. Provided he is explained to be armored. I agree, audiences will go "that looks silly" if Batman is in spandex. I do not agree that such will be the default response to a Batman in a fabric based outfit that looks rugged enough to bear the rigors of battle, as well as presented as being armored underneath. It's all in the presentation of the package.

Batman & Robin obviously was goofy from the get go, and the suit looks just as goofy. And it was clearly rubber. I can see the validity of the concern, but to argue as forcefully as you have and dismissively by using strawmen like pictures of Adam West and hyperbolic statements about Cap looking like a Halloween costume betrays to me a serious lack of imagination on your part. As does the idea that you can tolerate grapple guns and cape gliders, but the body armor has to be only what is absolutely known to be effective is the same. It makes no sense.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I am not exaggerating nor do I lack imagination (now that is a hyperbolic claim). It's my opinion that Chris Evans' suit does uphold the image of a halloween costume. No joke, no games. The suit appears impressive from behind the glass, but not on a body. I believe making two or three modifications or adjustments could improve the appearance of the suit on Evans, but other that, I'm sorry. I don't see how I can take Captain America's suit seriously.

Don't even get me started on Batman Forever and Batman & Robin suits...

I can tolerate grappling guns and memory cloth because I know these gadgets are fictional, body armor is not. It's a personal preference.

 

[DaveMoral]

I'm not sure your grasp on hyperbole is very strong, my friend. If you're going to post a spy pict of Chris Evans in a professionally made costume alongside a little kid in a homemade Captain America costume and say the professionally done costume looks like the homemade child's costume that is hyperbole.

And again, your personal preference is not a valid argument against a cloth costume or theoretical body armors that could be used. Hell, it's not a valid argument against a cloth Batsuit made of a heavy duty outer layer over a layer of kevlar body armor, which is very real. You've merely set yourself against the idea of a cloth costume on the grounds that rubber has been the default for Batsuits for 20 years and then you use Adam West to argue against entirely new approaches to costuming Batman with cloth. Ideas that are not even comparable to Adam West, the 40s serial costumes, or even recent fan film costumes.

Even if you think the Cap costume looks goofy, which I will grant you there are shots where the Cap cowl especially looks kind of doofy, the basic idea of it could readily translate to a Batsuit and look fantastic.

 

[Young Superman]

I think the best Batsuit we've ever gotten, hands down, is the BR suit.

Second best would be Batman Begins.

I agree 100% with you here.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Yup, BR is the high point for me too. Best mask/cowl/cape attachment of the bunch.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

As much as I am not a fan of Batman Returns, I LOVE that suit. In my top 3 Bat-suits for sure.

 

[TheDragonator]

With a slightly less thick neck, I'd agree.

 

[Doctor Who]

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I'm not sure your grasp on hyperbole is very strong, my friend. If you're going to post a spy pict of Chris Evans in a professionally made costume alongside a little kid in a homemade Captain America costume and say the professionally done costume looks like the homemade child's costume that is hyperbole.

That was a hyperbole, but my opinion of the Captain's suit is not. It appears to me like a Party City costume, and that's that.

And again, your personal preference is not a valid argument against a cloth costume or theoretical body armors that could be used. Hell, it's not a valid argument against a cloth Batsuit made of a heavy duty outer layer over a layer of kevlar body armor, which is very real. You've merely set yourself against the idea of a cloth costume on the grounds that rubber has been the default for Batsuits for 20 years and then you use Adam West to argue against entirely new approaches to costuming Batman with cloth. Ideas that are not even comparable to Adam West, the 40s serial costumes, or even recent fan film costumes.

It's a personal preference WHY I prefer grounded and proven materials when coming to bullet-resistant armor. Up to this point, rubber has done the job fantastically image-wise (Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight). Function-wise, that is another story. I wouldn't dislike the idea of a Nomex style body suit underneath the fabric.

Even if you think the Cap costume looks goofy, which I will grant you there are shots where the Cap cowl especially looks kind of doofy, the basic idea of it could readily translate to a Batsuit and look fantastic.

It would have to be an incredibly awesome design, that's for sure. I would stray away from the same fabric used for Captain America though.

 

[Mister Meddle]

"This image can't be displayed for the moment! Please go to www.gifbin.com to see it."

Strong response, mister.