The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread IX

[itsthebatman]

Why should we not try different things just because a select group of people you talked to don't understand the concept right off the bat (pardon the pun)?

Because that would be taking a risk. A big no-no. Like, I dunno, making the Joker a guy in make-up? That would fail.
Oh...

 

[Boom]

Just as there are people who are fine with the rubber suits, I'd be willing to bet that there are just as many people who would like to see something different.

What is the point of re-adapting a character if you're not going to try something that hasn't been done? Where the hell is the fun in that?

Thirteen rubber suits in seven feature films over the course of twenty three years is enough. I, for one, have had enough. It's a tired look. You can argue that it's the most practical look for Batman on film all you want (but until we actually see someone attempt something different, you can't even say that with absolute certainty). That doesn't change the fact that the premise has become incredibly stale. And if nothing else, a change is necessary just to breath some fresh air into the visualization of this character.

Who wouldn't like to see Batman portrayed in such a way that criminals are actually convinced that he is this spectral, supernatural demon - and not just a mortal man wearing a blatantly armored suit?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I am so terribly sorry to incovenience you in any way .

I'm sorry, but it's getting irritating. Three different members have tried the same comparision.

No, it really doesn't - considering his resources and tactics. He strategizes, he levels the playing field, and he's highly trained. Please note the very first scene with Batman in Batman Begins. He destroyed the lights, he picks them off one-by-one. They couldn't see him, they couldn't hit him. All the while, he's picking them apart like a predator. They were scared, thus making them psychologically vulnerable. And when he does finally engage multiple foes, he does so in close-quarters combat - throwing them into a state of confusion and disarray.

Now, how many times did he actually get shot or stabbed at in that scene? For that matter, how many times has Batman actually been shot/stabbed in these films to warrant being decked out the way that he is? Christ, the way he's dressed, you'd think the man was walking into machine guns on a night-to-night basis.

Of course, but does that mean Batman should take unnecessary risks? No. And thank god he sure doesn't.

I don't know about that Boom. Batman seemed more mortal and human in TDK. He was attacked by dogs, shot, and stabbed on more than one occasion. Even with Batman being in top tier shape and possessing great strategies/battleplans, he's still prune to receiving wounds. He's still only human. It's going to happen.

So because they haven't been proven effective yet, we should just completely close our minds to the possibility of ANYTHING besides rubber? Is that what we should do?

Audiences won't buy it just because it hasn't been done before.

I respect you, Doomsday, but that line of logic is just pure utter ********. I'm sorry.

And so is a skin tight organic based suit repelling an armor piercing round at the moment. I apologize but I just don't see it, and neither does any director who has been attached to the franchise.

This idea could work for a Batman in a future setting, but a liquid based suit doesn't go well with a modern Batman, in my humble opinion.

I respect your opinion and views too Boom, but this is one opinion of yours I will have to disagree on like a gentleman.

 

[Boom]

Of course, but does that mean Batman should take unnecessary risks? No. And thank god he sure doesn't.

Again, I never said he didn't need some form of protection. I'd just prefer it if it wasn't so blatant, excessive, and rigid.

I don't know about that Boom. Batman seemed more mortal and human in TDK. He was attacked by dogs, shot, and stabbed on more than one occasion. Even with Batman being in top tier shape and possessing great strategies/battleplans, he's still prune to receiving wounds. He's still only human. It's going to happen.

These type of injuries can be protected against with high-impact hardening pads and fluid, like liquid armor and d3o. Both of which can be easily concealed under a tear-resistant fabric suit. He wouldn't look like he's armored. That's the key. Can you imagine how scared criminals would be if they shot at this seemingly unprotected figure, and he just plows straight through it unharmed?

That's much more frightening than shooting at a guy that you know isn't going to be seriously injured because he is clearly and visibly armored.

"Criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot." That is a fundamental aspect to understanding the purpose of the Batman persona. To make the criminals think he is more than just a man. To frighten them.

There is nothing supernatural about the way Batman looks now. Sure, it's scary that this highly trained, armored guy is going to kick my ass. But that's not the type of "scary" I'm looking for in this character, nor the type of fear that Batman meant to instill when he decided to put on this costume.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

It would be frightening and psychologically intimidating but I would have to witness these elements at work in stressful environments and situations before I could even consider such an idea.

Hell, it doesn't have to fully work or be stable. For me, I just my imagination to be inspired but I need something to work with. A stepping stone.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

DoomsdayApex, you can say "I can't see it" all you want, but if you saw trailers for a Batman movie where he wore a more comic book like fabric suit - one that looked as good as the Spider-Man costumes - and if the footage looked good, and it looked like a great movie, you would still go see it and probably enjoy it.

Even if you didn't, there would still be more than enough people to fill your seat at the theater.

The fact is that unless you really screw him up, Batman is a license to print money. So there wouldn't be much, if any risk, in using a fabric suit. Because it all comes down to the tone of the movie that is presented, and the marketing campaign, and the way it all looks on film. Bottom line.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

DoomsdayApex, you can say "I can't see it" all you want, but if you saw trailers for a Batman movie where he wore a more comic book like fabric suit - one that looked as good as the Spider-Man costumes - and if the footage looked good, and it looked like a great movie, you would still go see it and probably enjoy it.

Even if you didn't, there would still be more than enough people to fill your seat at the theater.

The fact is that unless you really screw him up, Batman is a license to print money. So there wouldn't be much, if any risk, in using a fabric suit. Because it all comes down to the tone of the movie that is presented, and the marketing campaign, and the way it all looks on film. Bottom line.

Your opinion, that's all it is to me. You can't tell me how I would react, so please don't write BS like that to me again. I have my own opinions and I'm fiercely loyal to them.

 

[Boom]

I would even call attention to lines in Nolan's film.

Carmine Falcone: "You always fear what you don't understand."
Ra's al Ghul: "Men fear most what they cannot see."

Going back to what I said. Imagine yourself open-firing on this organic-looking, seemingly unarmored figure. You manage to land one bullet. He seems hardly fazed. Not even a drop of blood. Next thing you know, he's coming at you with all his wrath.

You don't see that he's armored. You can't be sure that that's the answer. And since you don't understand how he's still standing, fear starts to creep into your mind.

"Is he supernatural?"
"Is he immortal?"
"What the hell is happening?"
"Welp, there goes my face."

I will concede that, in certain shots in BB, this effect is achieved - but only when the batsuit itself is obscured by the cape/shadows. Once you see the suit in the light, the effect is destroyed.

"Ah, he's wearing armor. Gotcha."

Now fast-forward to TDK, where Batman's cape just hangs lifelessly throughout the entire film (thus no longer serving a useful purpose in creating that supernatural effect), and Batman is constantly popping up in brightly lit environments.

There is no mystery. There is no misunderstanding. It is quite clear: He is a man in armor.

And once criminals understand that he is just a man in armor, it kinda begs the question as to why he even bothers to keep the bat motif at all. If "highly trained man in armor" is the type of scary they're going for, then he can just as easily achieve that effect without it.

 

[Boom]

And Saint, I see you creepin' there at the bottom of the page .

 

[Troy_Parker]

I would even call attention to lines in Nolan's film.

Carmine Falcone: "You always fear what you don't understand."
Ra's al Ghul: "Men fear most what they cannot see."

Going back to what I said. Imagine yourself open-firing on this organic-looking, seemingly unarmored figure. You manage to land one bullet. He seems hardly fazed. Not even a drop of blood. Next thing you know, he's coming at you with all his wrath.

You don't see that he's armored. You can't be sure that that's the answer. And since you don't understand how he's still standing, fear starts to creep into your mind.

"Is he supernatural?"
"Is he immortal?"
"What the hell is happening?"
"Welp, there goes my face."

I will concede that, in certain shots in BB, this effect is achieved - but only when the batsuit itself is obscured by the cape/shadows. Once you see the suit in the light, the effect is destroyed.

"Ah, he's wearing armor. Gotcha."

Now fast-forward to TDK, where Batman's cape just hangs lifelessly throughout the entire film (thus no longer serving a useful purpose in creating that supernatural effect), and Batman is constantly popping up in brightly lit environments.

There is no mystery. There is no misunderstanding. It is quite clear: He is a man in armor.

And once criminals understand that he is just a man in armor, it kinda begs the question as to why he even bothers to keep the bat motif at all.

I said something similar a month or so ago, and one of the responses was "Obviously it's a man in armour".

But I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this. t:

 

[Godzilla2014]

The most promising body armor technology, in my opinion, are carbon nanotubes. These suckers are harder than diamonds and I've heard they can survive temperatures approaching absolute zero and high temperatures. Even more interesting, they can also be used in circuitry, artificial muscles, high tensile strength fibers, and more!

 

[Boom]

Doomsday, if you Google "liquid armor," "spider silk armor," and "d3o," you'll find plenty of articles on these materials explaining their make-up, functionality, and potential for future armor-based applications. I believe you can even find some demonstration videos showing off these materials in action. d3o, in particular, has its own website.

It's very interesting stuff.

Take the concept of these materials, touch them up with good ol' "science fiction logic" (just as Nolan has done in his films), and we're good to go I think .

And obviously: design the suit to look scary as hell.

 

[Godzilla2014]

So no one gives a **** about the potential of CNTs?

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Your opinion, that's all it is to me. You can't tell me how I would react, so please don't write BS like that to me again. I have my own opinions and I'm fiercely loyal to them.

My point still stands. There are other ways of doing Batman on film besides Nolan's take and vision on the character (as great as the two previous Batman movies he gave us are).

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Terribly sorry I'm rushing these responses but I'm in class.

Valid points Boom, and I certainly agree with the decline of Batman's image as a myth or legend, but armor is not responsible for that mystique vanishing.

Like Maroni and The Joker said: "They're wise to your act...", "You have all these rules, and you think they can save you...".

 

[Godzilla2014]

Liquid armor using non-Newtonian fluids might work.

 

[Boom]

Godzilla,

Liquid armor, spider silk, d3o, nanotechnology. They all interest me. I'm fascinated by that stuff.

One need only look at these kinds of technologies to see that a fabric-based suit is not as ridiculous as it may seem.

Batman would want to be as flexible, mobile, and lightweight as possible - while still having protection. But at the same time, Batman wouldn't want to look blatantly armored - so as to maintain the "supernatural" aspect of his persona.

These types of technologies would allow just that.

 

[Pagan]

Godzilla,

Liquid armor, spider silk, d3o, nanotechnology. They all interest me. I'm fascinated by that stuff.

One need only look at these kinds of technologies to see that a fabric-based suit is not as ridiculous as it may seem. Hell, they're actually being developed now in the real world.

Exactly. Batman needs to be quicker,more acrobatic and sleek. Not a hulk like tank in a suit so heavy the actors can't move in them and the fight shots have to be shot in such a deceptive way to hide that fact.

Bats needs to be more, Bruce Lee. Less Robocop.
More James Bond like in his demeanor.
More detective ,less depending on cops to inform him.

 

[genraider]

There are about 200 people on the internet that care what Batman's suit looks like. Everyone else is fine with it.

 

[Boom]

If only 200 people care what Batman's suit looks like, why is there such animosity towards the idea of a non-rubber suit - under the assumption that the general audience won't be able (or willing) to accept it?

If people as a whole don't care, then I imagine they'd be fine with a fabric-based suit as well, correct?

 

[Mister Meddle]

Godzilla,

Liquid armor, spider silk, d3o, nanotechnology. They all interest me. I'm fascinated by that stuff.

One need only look at these kinds of technologies to see that a fabric-based suit is not as ridiculous as it may seem.

Batman would want to be as flexible, mobile, and lightweight as possible - while still having protection. But at the same time, Batman wouldn't want to look blatantly armored - so as to maintain the "supernatural" aspect of his persona.

These types of technologies would allow just that.

Pretty much what I said the other day except you explained the suit a lot better.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Am I the only one who would love to see a more agile acorabatic batman on screen?

 

[Boom]

No, you are not.

 

[Nightwatcher11]

If only 200 people care what Batman's suit looks like, why is there such animosity towards the idea of a non-rubber suit - under the assumption that the general audience won't be able (or willing) to accept it?

If people as a whole don't care, then I imagine they'd be fine with a fabric-based suit as well, correct?

Boom I'm right there with you on wanting a new suit, and I can understand that people may be happy with Bat's current suit but to me: it isn't the best possible Batsuit we can get. I feel we could get something that not only looks awesome but also has functionality. Yes the TDK suit has functionality but like I said: is this the best Batsuit we could possibly get? Hell no.

 

[Goku Goes Crazy]

I love the suit we have.