The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread IX

[DaveMoral]

You're absolutely correct, because this happened:

And yet fabric wouldn't be a step backwards in the minds of the general audience? Sure you could pull off the liquid or spider silk-based suit but it would still appear as fabric to the average movie go'er.

In their minds, the suits from Batman to Batman & Robin were really just rubber wetsuits until Nolan's Trilogy and Batsuit came along. Although Nolan's Batsuits are purely rubber contraptions, the audience doesn't view it that way. They believe these suits resemble armor.

Don't you think the same principle applies to anything used as the base for the Batsuit? If the next director wanted to go for a durable fabric costume to enable more mobility than we've seen in a Batman to date, but explained the costume in terms of super hi-tech, cutting edge armor that somehow wouldn't change the minds of audiences into saying "that is conceivably some kind of body armor?" So it wouldn't be merely the Adam West picture you posted above, which obviously it would potentially only resemble in carrying black and grey contrasting colors, but something all its own and revolutionary in that it's the first attempt to make a comic accurate Batman costume in 30 years that preserves the color scheme and functionality of the Batman costume while giving some plausible sci-fi explanation to it that had Batman armored? And let's say the next film is a loose sequel to Nolan's trilogy, couldn't it also conceivably be explained away as to why Batman might actually prefer a suit that is somewhat less armored than either BB's or TDK's, much like TDK explained why Batman would switch to a new Batsuit that is obviously less armored than the previous one?

In truth, the only reason anyone has gone for the sculpted rubber look is because filmmakers have been trying to preserve the second skin aspect of comic Batman's costume... and thus with every Batman costume since 1989 we have gotten fake musculature or the "tech" imitation there-of.

Recent set photos of Captain America's Avengers costume not with standing, I like the shot of the thing on the manequin that some used to manip a Batsuit look. I think that's a good base, but could even be made to look heavier so as to say there's not just a dude with a muscular physique under it, but also a real kevlar vest and possibly some other cutting edge body armor technology. The result would be a Batsuit that actually looks more like the less defined Batman of hte 1940s. Which I'm good with. The most important thing in realizing that would be doing it in such a way that Batman doesn't just simply look puffy. As reference for what I'm talking about you can look at the Kane/Finger era, Mazuchelli, Matt Wagner, Timm, and basically anyone that has done Batman in a more Noir-ish styling. Oddly, in those days Batman's costume was minimally explained with body armor at all... and yet now, when Batman's costume shows every rippling muscle, he's supposed to actually be sheathed in body armor.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

You're absolutely correct, because this happened:

And yet fabric wouldn't be a step backwards in the minds of the general audience?

If it looked like that, sure. But there is no reason it would have to look like that, because the technology used to make costumes for comic book movies have evolved beyond 1989, let alone 1966. Posting an Adam West picture doesn't prove anything. It's absurd that you use this as the basis of your argument, a freaking costume from a live action show made in the 60's! WTF?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

If it looked like that, sure. But there is no reason it would have to look like that, because the technology used to make costumes for comic book movies have evolved beyond 1989, let alone 1966. Posting an Adam West picture doesn't prove anything. It's absurd that you use this as the basis of your argument, a freaking costume from a live action show made in the 60's! WTF?

Please re-read my statement to Regwec. You clearly did not.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Don't you think the same principle applies to anything used as the base for the Batsuit? If the next director wanted to go for a durable fabric costume to enable more mobility than we've seen in a Batman to date, but explained the costume in terms of super hi-tech, cutting edge armor that somehow wouldn't change the minds of audiences into saying "that is conceivably some kind of body armor?" So it wouldn't be merely the Adam West picture you posted above, which obviously it would potentially only resemble in carrying black and grey contrasting colors, but something all its own and revolutionary in that it's the first attempt to make a comic accurate Batman costume in 30 years that preserves the color scheme and functionality of the Batman costume while giving some plausible sci-fi explanation to it that had Batman armored? And let's say the next film is a loose sequel to Nolan's trilogy, couldn't it also conceivably be explained away as to why Batman might actually prefer a suit that is somewhat less armored than either BB's or TDK's, much like TDK explained why Batman would switch to a new Batsuit that is obviously less armored than the previous one?

In truth, the only reason anyone has gone for the sculpted rubber look is because filmmakers have been trying to preserve the second skin aspect of comic Batman's costume... and thus with every Batman costume since 1989 we have gotten fake musculature or the "tech" imitation there-of.

Recent set photos of Captain America's Avengers costume not with standing, I like the shot of the thing on the manequin that some used to manip a Batsuit look. I think that's a good base, but could even be made to look heavier so as to say there's not just a dude with a muscular physique under it, but also a real kevlar vest and possibly some other cutting edge body armor technology. The result would be a Batsuit that actually looks more like the less defined Batman of hte 1940s. Which I'm good with. The most important thing in realizing that would be doing it in such a way that Batman doesn't just simply look puffy. As reference for what I'm talking about you can look at the Kane/Finger era, Mazuchelli, Matt Wagner, Timm, and basically anyone that has done Batman in a more Noir-ish styling. Oddly, in those days Batman's costume was minimally explained with body armor at all... and yet now, when Batman's costume shows every rippling muscle, he's supposed to actually be sheathed in body armor.

I apologize. I originally had a longer and more detailed response but login issues took care of that...

That's the point.

It's been a long time since I watched Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, but I don't vaguely recall anyone discussing how (theoretically) the Batsuit works. In addition to having no explaination, the Batsuit appeared completely rubber-ish. The muscular (abs, glutes, nipples) design didn't help. I was five when I watched Batman Returns, and that scene where Bruce extracts Catwoman's 'nails' from the suit was imprinted into my memory.

"Woah, Batman's suit is made from rubber? Is rubber bulletproof?"

 

[marty mcfly]

And where exactly did he say he was operating under the "Three strikes and you're out" policy?

Here. Unless he's, unlikely, operating under the four million and three-fourths strikes and you're out policy. Mcfly's not wrong, and I took his statement to give the movie a shot as a suggestion. KRIM does need to get over himself.

Thank you. You see, Boom, normally when people say "He's already got two strikes" it's implied that the third strike is the last straw. I'm sorry if that confused you.

Brilliant deduction. So instead of asking for clarification or context behind that sentence, you choose to extrapolate literally everything but the kitchen sink to form that poorly constructed representation of the typical comic book purist.

My two-strikes remark was in reference to Catwoman's appearance. Any more alterations I'm not in favor of, and I'd be fairly confident that I wouldn't be able to grow into liking that design. I say two strikes because there is still a chance Nolan could pull a fast one and nail her look. Solely her look. Not the film, not Anne's performance, not the character, not...anything but what I just said. But that wasn't for you. That was for the more sensible people that don't tend to jump at people's throats with little regard. I want people like you to continue not getting over yourselves, so it's that much easier for me to pinpoint those that aren't worth discussing with in the future. Do me that favor.

I'm sorry. You're right. I should have asked, "KRIM, what do you mean when you say that Nolan has two strikes? Does that mean that you don't like two aesthetic design choices, but overall you're still looking forward to seeing the film?"

I love how you claim to be the sensible person here but, to quote Boom, in the very same breath make a comment that says,

"I want people like you to continue not getting over yourselves, so it's that much easier for me to pinpoint those that aren't worth discussing with in the future. Do me that favor. "

Classy fellow. And on that note, I'm out.

 

[KRIM]

I'm sorry. You're right. I should have asked, "KRIM, what do you mean when you say that Nolan has two strikes? Does that mean that you don't like two aesthetic design choices, but overall you're still looking forward to seeing the film?"

If you were too dense to get the context of the statement, then yeah, you should have. Boom perfectly understood what I wrote. It wasn't hard -- we were talking about the catsuit, I referenced two aspects of the suit, logically you would follow said strikes only pertain to *gasp* the suit.

But Boom was right, it's a lot easier to jump people for no reason. God forbid we take the time to engage in civil discussion. Nah, that's elementary. We'd rather just throw random jabs and hope the person had it coming.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Ah, but didn't you freak out last night to the 'just accept it' misconception? t:

 

[KRIM]

While not a jab, I did take it as a slap so my PMS was perfectly justified.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

WHOA! You guys didnt know that rubber was bulletproof? Where have you been in the world?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

WHOA! You guys didnt know that rubber was bulletproof? Where have you been in the world?

Not cheap rubber.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Not cheap rubber.

Well if you can stab a tire as thick as it is and penetrate it as quickly as you can and pop it, Im sure you can stab through any of the rubber bat-suits even easier, and get old batsy right in his heart.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Forget knives and daggers, what about swords?

This is why I prefer steel, on some occasions.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Forget knives and daggers, what about swords?

This is why I prefer steel, on some occasions.

I concur Doomsday do you concur?

 

[Boom]

Well, bear in mind that, in the context of the films, it isn't rubber. So it doesn't necessary share the same properties as rubber in the real world.

But the thing that annoys me to no end is that they continue to describe the rubber suits as being comprised of "kevlar plates," when they look absolutely nothing like kevlar.

If you're going to pride yourself on grounding Batman's technology in reality, at least describe it appropriately. The TDK suit looks closer to the ceramic armor that is currently being developed than it does to kevlar.

The only thing that even remotely resembles kevlar on the batsuit is the under mesh.

 

[Doc Samson]

Well if you can stab a tire as thick as it is and penetrate it as quickly as you can and pop it, Im sure you can stab through any of the rubber bat-suits even easier, and get old batsy right in his heart.

Well, at least to Nolan & Bale's credit, this Batman doesn't just stand in front of people waiting to get shot like B89

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I know Boom, I should've used the word sarchastic in there somewhere, but I believe I must have somehow forgotten to do so.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I concur Doomsday do you concur?

I concur comrade.

On a serious note: I'll be making my trip to Japan (as soon as I receive my Master's) to mold my own Katana. I wonder if a plated Batsuit forged from the same process and material could prove to be successful... I might just experiment with the theory myself.

 

[Boom]

I know Boom, I should've used the word sarchastic in there somewhere, but I believe I must have somehow forgotten to do so.

Oh, you !

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I concur comrade.

On a serious note: I'll be making my trip to Japan (as soon as I receive my Master's) to mold my own Katana. I wonder if a plated Batsuit forged from the same process and material could prove to be successful... I might just experiment with the theory myself.

That would be interesting to try out, when you decide to do this let us know, sounds like a pretty cool thing to try out. Going to Japan is a dream of mine, your one lucky bat-fan.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

That would be interesting to try out, when you decide to do this let us know, sounds like a pretty cool thing to try out. Going to Japan is a dream of mine, your one lucky bat-fan.

It's funny. I've travelled quite a bit to France, Switzerland, Germany, Russia, Brazil, South Africa, Netherlands, Italy, Colombia, Mexico, etc but I have yet to visit the mystic land of Japan. It's truly a dream of mine as Martial Artist.

I will. It'll probably take awhile though. Katanas have a unique ability to take punishment. I'll probably use the TDK suit and the Crysis suit as templates.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Now upon viewing that suit, that even more so than TDK suit looks pretty armored and looks as though is enough to stop a bullet or a knife and still lightweight enough to be fast and agile.

 

[the dmg]

You're absolutely correct, because this happened:

Spoiler

And yet fabric wouldn't be a step backwards in the minds of the general audience? Sure you could pull off the liquid or spider silk-based suit but it would still appear as fabric to the average movie go'er.

And this happened:

Spoiler

And this:

Spoiler

Which look like absolute crap. With a big movie budget, we now got this:

Spoiler

This:

Spoiler

This:

Spoiler

And finally this:

Spoiler

Which all look great.

In their minds, the suits from Batman to Batman & Robin were really just rubber wetsuits until Nolan's Trilogy and Batsuit came along. Although Nolan's Batsuits are purely rubber contraptions, the audience doesn't view it that way. They believe these suits resemble armor.

You're giving the GA too much credit if you think they presumed the suits from B&R were rubber wetsuits.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

And this happened:

Spoiler

And this:

Spoiler

Which look like absolute crap. With a big movie budget, we now got this:

Spoiler

This:

Spoiler

This:

Spoiler

And finally this:

Spoiler

Which all look great.
You're giving the GA too much credit if you think they presumed the suits from B&R were rubber wetsuits.

Your opinion, but I think most of them look like complete and utter garbage (other than the Spiderman 2 suit).

I disagree. I didn't read ANY Batman comics until I reached my late-teenage years. Keep in mind, I was five or six when I first watched Batman and Batman Returns, and I knew the Batsuit was made from a typical or common elastic polymer. I'm sure if I figured it out at such a young age then I'm confident the general audience did as well. I think you're giving the GA too little credit.

 

[helloiamben]

If I had my hand in the design of Batman's suit for future films I'd have a cross between a refined '89 suit, the Begins suit and TDK. Something that would blend the three together.

I'd have it so that the interior would be this practical armor plating, Kevlar perhaps. All puzzle like and intricate to flow with the movement of the human body. The exterior would then be a type of rubber and/or fabric that goes over the armor to make the character look more organic, creature of the nightish and less military, man who obviously has armor to be protected. Everyone's right on the mark with what they want with these suits but the best way to make it work is to use them all and blend them seamlessly.

For those worried about not being able to see the armor bits, you could have scenes where Batman's exterior suit is damaged by combat and the audience can see the exposed bits of Kevlar and armor plating beneath. As for flexibility you're disguising the armor with rubber and fabric so why not just have a "stunt" suit that doesn't utilize the underparts of the suit. Then you could have a Batman with a real sense of quickness and agility.

As far as symbols/chest emblems go, I'd make it a progressive thing. In the early stages when Batman is seen as a menacing, giant Bat I'd have the large Bat emblem like Begins. As the film/films evolved and Batman was more known to criminals and the general public I'd make the bat smaller and smaller until we finally had the bat oval.

 

[the dmg]

I disagree. I didn't read ANY Batman comics until I reached my late-teenage years. Keep in mind, I was five or six when I first watched Batman and Batman Returns, and I knew the Batsuit was made from a typical or common elastic polymer. I'm sure if I figured it out at such a young age then I'm confident the general audience did as well. I think you're giving the GA too little credit.

In the context of the movies, rubber equates to armor, so in the movie, the GA would believe that could protect the characters in the movie. Of course they know it's actually rubber that the actors wear, but for you to make a bold statement that after BB and TDK, the GA thinks that now rubber resembles armor is absurd. The rubber suits have always resembled and are meant to be armor in the Batman movies.