The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread VI

[JAK®]

The whole point of Superman is that he is a renaissance man. That's why in pre-crisis, his stories were more about questions of morality, science-fiction allegories and character study rather than fighting supervillains. In post-crisis, they powered him down and tried to fit him into the mould of every other superhero and he has been boring ever since.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Yep. That's what Friedrich Nietzsche's Übermensch meant. He is the pinnacle of humanity, the end of what can be achieved by humanity. Perfection. That is the basis of the Superman/Luthor rivalry. That is what Lex wanted to be, he feels he is more worthy of the power, that he would use it more efficiently. And the truth is, knowing he is inferior to Superman scares him.


Taking away Superman being the Übermensch is like taking away Batman being the Dark Knight. And DC have yet to realise that.

 

[Godzilla2014]

The whole point of Superman is that he is a renaissance man. That's why in pre-crisis, his stories were more about questions of morality, science-fiction allegories and character study rather than fighting supervillains. In post-crisis, they powered him down and tried to fit him into the mould of every other superhero and he has been boring ever since.

Good point. Still, a powering down I think was justified after the Silver Age, if not necessarily to the point that John Byrne did. Superman in general is a hard character to write faithfully to his modern characterization while still being interesting. In terms of characterization, the modern Superman is about as alien as his physiology: Where most characters, superheroes or otherwise, like Batman are based on their character depth, modern Superman is actually based on his lack thereof: He's intentionally designed to be perfect and flawless to be a moral exemplar. This causes him to be a simple character, which coupled with his immense power makes it hard to really challenge him in a physical, intellectual, or moral way. Especially today, it is hard to relate to his simplistic views on morality and moral issues, because "doing the right thing" is not as simple as it sounds in this day and age when there are so many thought processes, moral and ethical systems, and philosophic viewpoints on what the aforementioned "right thing" is.
Thoughts on this analysis of Superman in our day and age?

Yep. That's what Friedrich Nietzsche's Übermensch meant. He is the pinnacle of humanity, the end of what can be achieved by humanity. Perfection. That is the basis of the Superman/Luthor rivalry. That is what Lex wanted to be, he feels he is more worthy of the power, that he would use it more efficiently. And the truth is, knowing he is inferior to Superman scares him.


Taking away Superman being the Übermensch is like taking away Batman being the Dark Knight. And DC have yet to realise that.

Actually Superman is, in many ways, the opposite of Friedrich Nietzsche's Übermensch. Lex Luthor is Nietzsche's Übermensch.

 

[iamcitizen]

It's not stepping out of it, it's adding to it, evolving it. This has always been done in Batman films.

But why? Why would Batman start wearing fabric over his armor? What practical purpose would it serve?

People who want to see this want to see it for one reason and one reason only: because it would be more like the comics.

 

[RustyCage]

But why? Why would Batman start wearing fabric over his armor? What practical purpose would it serve?

People who want to see this want to see it for one reason and one reason only: because it would be more like the comics.

That's been detailed in this thread (and it's predecessors) multiple times, and I myself listed a potential example after the post you replied to. Please keep reading before you make such harsh assumptions.

 

[iamcitizen]

That's been detailed in this thread (and it's predecessors) multiple times, and I myself listed a potential example after the post you replied to.

No, you and others listed off a bunch of reasons why fabric wouldn't be worse than what we have now. Nobody has answered the question of why it would be better.

Put yourself in Bruce Wayne's shoes. Why would he start wearing a layer of fabric over his armor? What problem would it solve? That's the important question. What practical problem does the current suit have that would be solved by a layer of fabric?

 

[TheZink]

Put yourself in Bruce Wayne's shoes. Why would he start wearing a layer of fabric over his armor? What problem would it solve? That's the important question. What practical problem does the current suit have that would be solved by a layer of fabric?

And again, it's not just a fabric. It is a layer of "soft" armor above the heavy duty armor.

The ceramic plates are brittle and can be prone to cracking, especially from direct blows (gunshots, heavy weapons, Bane's Big F**KING Fist).

Also, adding Catwoman to the mix, perhaps the sections between the ceramic plates do not have enough padding to stop her claws. Remember the scene from Batman Return where she plunged deep into his side? Same thing.

 

[Godzilla2014]

The ceramic plates are brittle and can be prone to cracking, especially from direct blows (gunshots, heavy weapons, Bane's Big F**KING Fist).

Also, adding Catwoman to the mix, perhaps the sections between the ceramic plates do not have enough padding to stop her claws. Remember the scene from Batman Return where she plunged deep into his side? Same thing.

Ceramic trauma plates are not that brittle. They're designed to take a supersonic bullet from an assault rifle.

 

[TheZink]

Ceramic trauma plates are not that brittle. They're designed to take a supersonic bullet from an assault rifle.

Just going off what I know about ceramics in general, so I cant argue your point.

Also, one crack no matter how small, and they are useless.

 

[iamcitizen]

And again, it's not just a fabric. It is a layer of "soft" armor above the heavy duty armor.

The ceramic plates are brittle and can be prone to cracking, especially from direct blows (gunshots, heavy weapons, Bane's Big F**KING Fist).

Ceramic ballistic plates most certainly are not "brittle." They do sometimes crack after taking a shot from a rifle, but they are designed to be able to protect against multiple shots. And plates as small as the ones on Batman's costume would be even harder to break.

And anyway, I don't think that the "plates" on Batman's costume are supposed to be ceramic. In TDK Lucius said they were "hardened Kevlar," in other words, the stuff they make military helmets out of. That makes sense: a suit entirely covered in ceramic ballistic plates would weigh hundreds of pounds.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I'm fairly sure Lucius mentions them being ceramic. And Bruce is using smaller plates which are going to be easier to break, not harder. The bullet impacts the much smaller plate, transfers it's energy along the plate, which is small and thin, and considering said thinness would crack and the bullet would continue. Hence why we see Two-Face's bullet penetrates the suit. And why Joker was able to stab him twice.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Ceramic ballistic plates most certainly are not "brittle." They do sometimes crack after taking a shot from a rifle, but they are designed to be able to protect against multiple shots. And plates as small as the ones on Batman's costume would be even harder to break.

Exactly.

And anyway, I don't think that the "plates" on Batman's costume are supposed to be ceramic. In TDK Lucius said they were "hardened Kevlar," in other words, the stuff they make military helmets out of. That makes sense: a suit entirely covered in ceramic ballistic plates would weigh hundreds of pounds.

They are. I recall he did say that there were ceramic plates, and also Batman Tech (a documentary on History Channel to promote The Dark Knight, which talked about the technology used in the Batsuit) said that the Batsuit in the film used ceramic plates, just like real life soldier's body armor.

 

[TheZink]

I will concede to them being brittle and prone to fatigue cracks after heavy usage.

I still think the fabric covering can be sold as an additional armor that will protect from from stabbing and (claw attacks).

Also, who is to say that the suit doesn't get damaged in this one? That alone could be enough incentive to change things up.

 

[iamcitizen]

They are. I recall he did say that there were ceramic plates, and also Batman Tech (a documentary on History Channel to promote The Dark Knight, which talked about the technology used in the Batsuit) said that the Batsuit in the film used ceramic plates, just like real life soldier's body armor.

Maybe, but in the movie itself Lucius said the suit was made of "hardened Kevlar plates over titanium-dipped tri-weave fibers." He doesn't say anything about ceramics.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Maybe, but in the movie itself Lucius said the suit was made of "hardened Kevlar plates over titanium-dipped tri-weave fibers." He doesn't say anything about ceramics.

Still the ceramic plates are confirmed. And I am certain he mentions ceramics.

 

[iamcitizen]

Still the ceramic plates are confirmed.

In a supplementary feature, by someone who may not have even been involved with the production. Not in the movie itself.

And I am certain he mentions ceramics.

I am 100% certain that he doesn't.

 

[Godzilla2014]

In a supplementary feature, by someone who may not have even been involved with the production. Not in the movie itself.

The Batsuit has ceramics. That was what Christopher Nolan intended. Period, end of story.

I am 100% certain that he doesn't.

I am 100% certain he does.

 

[Mako]

The Batsuit has ceramics. That was what Christopher Nolan intended. Period, end of story.



I am 100% certain he does.

Are you referring to Lucius or Nolan saying that?

 

[iamcitizen]

The Batsuit has ceramics. That was what Christopher Nolan intended.

How do you know? He didn't mention it in the screenplay he co-wrote.

I am 100% certain he does.

Mind posting the exact quote? I popped the DVD in to make sure, and nobody mentions the word "ceramic" in the entire scene.

 

[Mako]

How do you know? He didn't mention it in the screenplay he co-wrote.



Mind posting the exact quote? I popped the DVD in to make sure, and nobody mentions the word "ceramic" in the entire scene.

I agree with you, I don't ever remember anyone mentioning "ceramic plates"

 

[Godzilla2014]

Are you referring to Lucius or Nolan saying that?

One of them or both.

How do you know? He didn't mention it in the screenplay he co-wrote.

I know because they went into quite a bit of detail about it. How trauma plates work, how they're made, et cetera. I recall they even talked to some expert about it. It wouldn't make sense that noone would catch that, and leave in about 5 minutes of talking about something that wasn't in the actual film. They do in fact, check these things.

Mind posting the exact quote? I popped the DVD in to make sure, and nobody mentions the word "ceramic" in the entire scene.

Could you, please? I can't find it online.

 

[Saint]

Lucius doesn't say a word about ceramics.

Ceramics are mentioned in a featurette comparing Batman's gear to real world technology, but it's not really stated one way or the other whether the suit includes ceramics. The ceramics talk is part of a "This is what we use in the real world" discussion, as opposed to all the fictional gear in the film.

 

[RustyCage]

No, you and others listed off a bunch of reasons why fabric wouldn't be worse than what we have now. Nobody has answered the question of why it would be better.

Put yourself in Bruce Wayne's shoes. Why would he start wearing a layer of fabric over his armor? What problem would it solve? That's the important question. What practical problem does the current suit have that would be solved by a layer of fabric?

Actually, I did address why it would be better, and what problem it solves. You've either missed it or are willfully ignoring it. Last page I think.

Check that, and then ask me to elaborate if you need it. But I did address it.

 

[socool]

The only way I can see Nolan incorporating fabric on the suit is if it has a reason. Like, the movie takes place in winter and he puts material over the armor to keep himself from freezing his ass off.

Or Nolan can actually listen to the fans for once. Big shocker, I know.

 

[TheBatman072]

Or Nolan can actually listen to the fans for once. Big shocker, I know.

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