The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread VI

[JAK®]

save the Tron design for Batman Beyond

You don't think we're talking about keeping the glowing LED lights do you?

 

[DAVIDYR1]

A suit like that could work so well for a Batman suit, all I can do is hope. I'm talking style and fabric wise by the way, not the sci fi lights and glow.

They're sleek and allow the actor to move around very well, and could easily have small bits of armor attached on top or even below the surface of the fabric.

Someone honestly tell me why this style of suit wouldn't work on film for Batman.

Actually, the TRON LEGACY suits and ALL Batman Movie Suits with the exception of the TDK Batman costume were all made exactly the same.
Neoprene under-suit with foam latex armor details.
That's how TRON LEGACY and almost all the Batsuits have been made until now. The technique is the same, the designs themselves obviously are different.
You can also add the NightOwl Watchmen costume and cowl and many, many other costumes to the list of neoprene and foam latex armor.
Least we forget the 'Movie Magic' aspect, case in point the NightOwl cowl that was worn off to the back of the actors head as if he pulled his head through the mouth opening was a trick cowl made to look like that function was possible...but you never saw him actually pull it over his head like that...because in reality he never did.

Keaton Batman 89 was really the first to fully take advantage of full body foam latex suits, where the closest thing to this were the Dune Still Suits...Neoprene undersuits with foam carved sections glued on, then the whole suit sprayed with coats of latex. Awesome looking suits too.

There was a silicone Batman Begins suit for the scene where Bat's is lit on fire, because foam latex is flammable....and some silicone suits here and there in the Schumacher films for the water scenes but otherwise it's the exact same material and principle as TRON LEGACY.

The TDK Suit is revolutionary in its construction, assembly and ease of movement. Entirely new concepts and materials were introduced to bring the TDK Batsuit to life.

David

 

[Brian Braddock]

You don't think we're talking about keeping the glowing LED lights do you?

Maybe, if one J.Schumacher was a poster on the thread......

 

[BatScot]

The TDK Suit is revolutionary in its construction, assembly and ease of movement.

A rubber suit by any other name is still a rubber suit.

Entirely new concepts and materials were introduced to bring the TDK Batsuit to life.

Like Frankenstein.

 

[DAVIDYR1]

A rubber suit by any other name is still a rubber suit.

I didn't say it wasn't a rubber suit...and I'm not debating the rubber suit fact either.

The segmented armor of the TDK Suit and use of Spacer weave for the base undersuit....which is not even an actual textile because it's used for filters... was a first in the Batman movie costume world and while everyone is free to love or hate any look or concept, its design and engineering was brilliant and incredibly well executed.
Sure, it may not be to your liking design wise...but it's just as revolutionary as the 89 Keaton Batsuit was to the world of superhero costume making.

In any case, I chimed in for the comments regarding the TRON Legacy suits, and that they are in fact the same technique used in almost all the Batsuits.

David

 

[BatScot]

I didn't say it wasn't a rubber suit...and I'm not debating the rubber suit fact either.

The segmented armor of the TDK Suit and use of Spacer weave for the base undersuit....which is not even an actual textile because it's used for filters... was a first in the Batman movie costume world and while everyone is free to love or hate any look or concept, its design and engineering was brilliant and incredibly well executed.
Sure, it may not be to your liking design wise...but it's just as revolutionary as the 89 Keaton Batsuit was to the world of superhero costume making.

In any case, I chimed in for the comments regarding the TRON Legacy suits, and that they are in fact the same technique used in almost all the Batsuits.

David

Linda Hemming
"The base layer of the suit was made of a polyester mesh material, which is employed by the military and high-tech sports manufacturers because of its moisture-wicking properties. Then individually molded pieces of flexible urethane were attached to the mesh to form the overall armor plating."

The TDK concept is basically moto-bike armor over polyester mesh; that may be "new" to a Batman movie but there's nothing particularly revolutionary about the idea in-and-of-itself.

And for all its purported brilliance and execution the thing still looks a mess.

 

[DAVIDYR1]

Linda Hemming
"The base layer of the suit was made of a polyester mesh material, which is employed by the military and high-tech sports manufacturers because of its moisture-wicking properties. Then individually molded pieces of flexible urethane were attached to the mesh to form the overall armor plating."

The TDK concept is basically moto-bike armor over polyester mesh; that may be "new" to a Batman movie but there's nothing particularly revolutionary about the idea in-and-of-itself.

And for all its purported brilliance and execution the thing still looks a mess.

You're missing the point. The Polyester Mesh material/Spacer Weave is basically an air filter. Its design allows for air to flow through it while trapping particles. Different grades and materials are used for different applications and yes, it's even used in real life body armor applications.

You can debate the look of the suit all you want, that's not at all what I'm posting about. I'm talking about their engineering, how they were made in comparison to other movie costumes... BUT if what the Military is using in our REAL world is considered 'nothing new' by your own words for Hollywood SPFX and costume making....then you have no grasp or real understanding of how the movie Batsuits were made above and beyond what was said by Hemming in the DVD.

Basically you continue to say that you hate the suit design, but you're totally missing the point of my posts. I'm talking about how they're made and what went into them engineering wise...not personal Batman costume preferences.

David

 

[BatScot]

BUT if what the Military is using in our REAL world is considered 'nothing new' by your own words for Hollywood SPFX and costume making

Those are NOT my words.

You're missing the point.

Point being:

The TDK Suit is revolutionary in its construction, assembly and ease of movement. Entirely new concepts and materials were introduced to bring the TDK Batsuit to life.

Fine then, moto-bike armor glued to wicking mesh is revolutionary.

 

[DAVIDYR1]

Those are NOT my words.

No, it's from your post quoting Linda Hemming...just above. Re read what you posted.
Not only, but Spacer mesh is probably in the computer chair your sitting on right now, the mattress you sleep on and if you have high end biker wear it's probably used as the inner body armor of the jacket...all be it silicone based instead of urethane. My point is that just because Hemming commented saying that it's used by the Military, that in itself doesnt make it 'old news' when you consider that something like this is the first time it's been seen in a film Batman costume....and quite possibly as a full wearable suit in on its own when it's normally used as either a filter or armor. For the TDK suit it's used as the base undersuit. That's pretty out-of-the-box thinking right there...loving the suit or not.

Point being:

...the point I made above, meaning that the materials used for the batman suits is the same material used for the Tron legacy suits. Also the fact that the TDK suit is revolutionary in its design and followthrough...but you keep insisting that the design is not to your liking, so its materials, creation and execution are in your view irrelevant...so you're missing the point of my posts. I'm talking about how the suits were made, and you're concerned with their look not meeting your standard of choice so the 'how they're made' is moot to you. Perhaps not so much to others though....

Fine then, moto-bike armor glued to wicking mesh is revolutionary.

For a Batman Movie suit? Yes.
...and I don't think anyone has denied that the TDK suit took influences from motorcycle wear. That much I believe we can in fact agree on.

David

 

[BatScot]

My point is that just because Hemming commented saying that it's used by the Military, that in itself doesnt make it 'old news' when you consider that something like this is the first time it's been seen in a film Batman costume....and quite possibly as a full wearable suit in on its own when it's normally used as either a filter or armor. For the TDK suit it's used as the base undersuit. That's pretty out-of-the-box thinking right there...

Moto-bike armor and rubber glued to polyester mesh—which, as you correctly point out as being a material that has been used in the furniture, automotive, medical, sports, and military industries for years—is no more revolutionary a material than the idea of a mesh batsuit, and idea which predates even the Begins suit:

 

[DAVIDYR1]

Moto-bike armor and rubber glued to polyester mesh—which, as you correctly point out as being a material that has been used in the furniture, automotive, medical, sports, and military industries for years—is no more revolutionary a material than the idea of a mesh batsuit, and idea which predates even the Begins suit:

...who's questioning that?
I said that this was the first time this technique and material was used for a movie Batsuit. I didn't say they invented something.

I produce motorcycle wear for living, and specifically in the case of Batman...manufacture the Batman Movie Replica Motorcycle suit, so the bike armor, material and related discussion on biker wear VS influences on the TDK Batsuit are subjects I deal in as fact on a daily basis.

The fan made image you posted above is just that, a fan made image...and a good one too. Ideas and concepts exist in the fan world and have now for eons...the reality of what we see on film may draw influences from real world areas the 'world' over but that doesn't make it old news when it's the first time a Batsuit was made that way on film. By your logic then, ANY Batsuit seen on film would be old news because we've probably already seen them in some form of comic book art....but then again the movie is based on the characters as seen and portrayed in DC Comics...right?

Look, I get it...you dont like the TDK Suit...but I weighed in on how it was made and the comparisons being made to the Tron Legacy suits....nothing more, nothing less...so trying to force feed me your personal opinion is rather weird when I've been publicly respecting everyone's views and opinions since my first post here on the Hype. You want to hate on the TDK suit...go ahead, hate...but you're going to have trouble with your proposed facts as they're skewed by your personal feelings towards the suit itself...and secondly because you make far too many assumptions....when the REALITY of the engineering behind the TDK suit is spectacular in world of costume making. That doesnt mean that other designs are not worthy, but having handled the TDK screen used suit on several occasions...I can tell you that it's a class A build.
Try to put aside your personal feelings about the design, I'm talking about how it was made.

And for that matter, all the movie Batsuits have incredible thought and engineering behind them. The B&R Robin suit for instance...regardless of how it looks or if you love/hate it, the movie or the director...that suit was incredible....technically speaking by how it was made. The design may or may not be to your liking though, and that's totally cool.

See where I'm coming from?

David

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Actually, sorry to chime in. But the method of Batman's suit in The Dark Knight was not revolutionary to Batman. It was already used in the cancelled Justice League: Mortal movie.

 

[TheBatman072]

Actually, sorry to chime in. But the method of Batman's suit in The Dark Knight was not revolutionary to Batman. It was already used in the cancelled Justice League: Mortal movie.

And yet TDK was the first to actually do it.

 

[Saint]

So much win.

 

[DAVIDYR1]

And yet TDK was the first to actually do it.

My point exactly.

Calling the TDK suit 'nothing new' is like saying once we have real working transporters that they too are nothing new because they already existed in Star Trek.

The whole love or hate debate is not where I'm at with this....just the merit of an incredible accomplishment that the TDK Batsuit is.

David

 

[Knight Rise]

You don't think we're talking about keeping the glowing LED lights do you?

no no but i think the sleeker design would look good in that kind of universe

 

[the dmg]

Actually, the TRON LEGACY suits and ALL Batman Movie Suits with the exception of the TDK Batman costume were all made exactly the same.
Neoprene under-suit with foam latex armor details.
That's how TRON LEGACY and almost all the Batsuits have been made until now. The technique is the same, the designs themselves obviously are different.

Actually the Tron: Legacy suits used Spandex, not neoprene. And the difference is what people like myself who present the Tron: Legacy suits as a reference for how to do it right. I do like that TDK went in the right direction to get out of a full rubber costume, but they just made it look horrible.

There was a silicone Batman Begins suit for the scene where Bat's is lit on fire, because foam latex is flammable....and some silicone suits here and there in the Schumacher films for the water scenes but otherwise it's the exact same material and principle as TRON LEGACY.

It's the application of said concept that went wrong. I'm cool with rubber as long as it's minimal, like in Tron: Legacy and SM1-3.

The TDK Suit is revolutionary in its construction, assembly and ease of movement. Entirely new concepts and materials were introduced to bring the TDK Batsuit to life.

Funny thing about the TDK suit was that it actually weighed more than the BB suit.

Honestly, the Batsuits in Nolan's films have the most disappointing aspect about his trilogy.

 

[DAVIDYR1]

Actually the Tron: Legacy suits used Spandex, not neoprene. And the difference is what people like myself who present the Tron: Legacy suits as a reference for how to do it right. I do like that TDK went in the right direction to get out of a full rubber costume, but they just made it look horrible.
It's the application of said concept that went wrong. I'm cool with rubber as long as it's minimal, like in Tron: Legacy and SM1-3.
Funny thing about the TDK suit was that it actually weighed more than the BB suit.

Honestly, the Batsuits in Nolan's films have the most disappointing aspect about his trilogy.

Yes, you're right. There was also spandex in the TL suits...Spandex, Neoprene and Foam Latex...I did neglect to mention that earlier....but they're full of neoprene inserts too.

All costume applications have their pros and cons...or trade offs if you will. The better movement of the TDK suit came with added weight compared to the Begins suit....correct again.

Personally, I love the TRON LEGACY costume designs...and when I saw them in person I wanted to rip my hair out of my head because we had to replicate them for the mass market as Movie Replica Motorcycle suits....and the Tron Legacy suits are themselves also incredibly advanced and innovative, making them that much more of a challenge bringing them to life with leather, silicone and spandex. You'll get absolutely no argument from me on the design and look of the Tron Legacy suits...awesome suits for sure.

David

 

[RustyCage]

You don't think we're talking about keeping the glowing LED lights do you?

Why would he think that? The Beyond suit doesn't have glowing LED lights on it.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Gee whiz, I didn't think this would happen lol. My point is if the Tron suits are made from the same exact materials as the past batsuits, why could they not use a successful tight fitting design for batman instead of changing the materials and make a "revolutionary" but also awful looking suit.

 

[BatScot]

Gee whiz, I didn't think this would happen lol. My point is if the Tron suits are made from the same exact materials as the past batsuits, why could they not use a successful tight fitting design for batman instead of changing the materials and make a "revolutionary" but also awful looking suit.

As is often the case with revolutions, someone loses their head.

 

[Majik1387]

I find it funny that with how everyone described an armor batsuit covered with a fabric is now okay with a Tron suit when they are complete opposites.

 

[Boom]

Because if we're stuck with neoprene/foam latex suits for the rest of this franchise (which is is most likely the case), at least we can hope for something that is streamlined, simplified, and aesthetically pleasing - like the TRON suits.

In a franchise using these types of suits, you give me something like TRON, you won't hear me complaining.

 

[Majik1387]

No see, I actually like the Tron suits as concepts for a movie Batsuit, and I do think that's the way to go after Nolan; because all these fan manips and designs honestly won't work onscreen.

 

[Boom]

One can only hope that Nolan has seen the TRON suits and thinks the same thing we do.