The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread

[Godzilla2014]

TDK cape's different as it's designed to fold into a backpack that's visible in Hong Kong. Nolan intended it to fold whenever Batman used the Batpod to avoid the cape getting stuck into the back wheel but that never happened fortunately, cos it looks great when he's riding with it out.

I agree.

 

[afan]

My main problem with the Nolan cape is the length; which negates the visual power, connection to a bat, of the scalloped bottom.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Yeah, if it looked completely different it would be better than the TDK suit.

That's not completely different.

I feel foolish saying this but I have to totally agree with yur statement.

t:

Completely disagree. The THE DARK KNIGHT Batsuit looks better to me than the BATMAN FOREVER Batsuit. The BF Batsuit just looks like a muscle suit, kind of generic for a superhero costume. The TDK Batsuit looks more like body armor which highlights the human vulnerability & preparedness of Batman that are key to the character. Plus the TDK Batsuit moves a lot better.

That's the thing. I dont want his suit to betray his vulnerability and mortality by making him look like a dude in hockey pads. He should look elemental like in Begins.

Agreed. I did like the black utility belts in the Schumacher movies, and I wouldn't object to the utility belt being made black or even grey in THE DARK KNIGHT RISES. Any thoughts on my idea?

As if the suit wasnt devoid of colour enough?

 

[Mr. Earle]

It was more like expensive curtains. And the problem was that looked completely different from the rest in color and texture.

The TDK Batsuit is no more ridiculous than the Adam West costume, it's just on the opposite extreme.

Agreed.

One is for keeping the floor dry when you step out of the bath, the other is for drying yourself.

Lol, i love you Jak!

I've just never been on board with the praise that the Forever suit gets. Hate the gloss, hate the nipples, hate the dozens of little Kelley Jones style ab muscles. The mask is okay but it's brought down by Kilmer's derp face. Symbol is cool.

I don't love any of the suits. Returns is the best by default, because it eschews the silly fake muscle look for armor that actually looks like armor and the cowl is fantastic and fits Keaton's face better than any actor/cowl combo in the series. It's still got problems inherent in being a rubber Batsuit.

Forever suffers from the problems above, 89 I just never liked at all - it's only saved by the way it's lit and shot, B&R is as bad as Forever but BLUE (no need to say anything about the sonar or ice suits), Begins is teh puffy, just looks too soft to be armor, and TDK is overdesigned and problematic, though admittedly I think it works better than the others save Returns, despite it's disappointing cape and a cowl that looks silly from certain angles.

Best Overall: Returns
Best Armor: Returns
Best Cowl: Returns
Best Cape: Begins
Best Movement: TDK
Best Symbol: Forever

I think Forever had a better cowl than both of Burton's suits. Sure the Returns one was good, but it still wasnt as form fitting and elegant as Kilmer's. I agree about Kilmer's lips but we're talking about the cowls arent we?

Overal i'd like something like the Begins cowl, in other words a bit thick and with an angry look sculted on it. The thing is that the BB cowl was too goddamn thick especially on the cheeks and that it didnt merge with the cape. Its high time they employed some CGI to do that. Its a superhero movie for christ's sakes.

My main problem with the Nolan cape is the length; which negates the visual power, connection to a bat, of the scalloped bottom.

Actually that's one of the things that in my opinion Nolan got right. I love the long cape and the fewer scallops that make him look like an actual bat when he is gliding.

 

[BattleCat]

The dark knight's suit looks more like military man than batman.

Most any suit will have a moment of not looking its best. To me, I think that the TDK Batsuit does look like Batman, and it works for the character.

 

[Travesty]

The dark knight's suit looks more like military man than batman.

That's because Linda Hemming even said that TDK-suit was designed around a military and motorcycle suit.

 

[Yurka]

The Nolan bat-suits were originally military armor that Bruce modified, so they should look like some type of military suit. I have no problem with either of them really. The cowls have both always bothered me more because I usually look at Bales face in a scene rather than the suit, unless hes kicking ass.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

One is for keeping the floor dry when you step out of the bath, the other is for drying yourself.

I just literally laughed out loud at work reading that, that was great.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

What's the difference between the BB & TDK capes?

Well, one was gigantic and majestic and the other was either much smaller or just terribly underutilized, I can't tell which.

For the record, I don't think TDK cape is AWFUL, it was just a step down from Begins for it take such a backseat, whereas Begins was CAPE CITY. Overall I prefer the material Nolan used in both capes to the shiny heavy capes of the old series.

 

[Godzilla2014]

The dark knight's suit looks more like military man than batman.

To me, the military look makes sense because he is fighting a WAR on crime. It doesn't make it not look like Batman to me.

That's not completely different.
t:That's the thing. I dont want his suit to betray his vulnerability and mortality by making him look like a dude in hockey pads. He should look elemental like in Begins.

I understand your criticism, and I think it is valid, but I disagree. I prefer the general body armor look over a simple muscle suit because how many superhero's costumes look like that? Many. How many have the need and the means to wear advanced body armor? Few.

As if the suit wasnt devoid of colour enough?

The point of Batman's costume, in the comics and these films, is to blend into the shadows and inspire fear into criminals, not look colorful, and matches the dark man who wears it. To me, that makes the Batsuit one of the best superhero costume designs in comics, because it makes sense for its purpose. If you want bright, colorful costumes, watch a Superman movie.

 

[afan]

The point, the only point, of Batman's costume is to associate him with a bat.

Any design should concentrate on that concept and the success or failure of the design should be judged on that premise. The protective nature of the suit should not be a design feature. This is where TDK suit fails miserably.

 

[TerryMcGinnis]

Its high time they employed some CGI to do that. Its a superhero movie for christ's sakes.

I think you're selling them short when you suggest CGI would be necessary to accomplish the merged look. I guarantee it's easier and cheaper to do it 'au naturale', they just don't give a rat's ass about it, as evident by TDK's cape. They seem to be leaning in the exact opposite direction, where now there's even more distance between where the cowl ends and the cape Begins™.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

we don't need it to be a muscle suit if it's not a military based suit, we need Bale to be big enough to fill out a suit with a different material that still has protective armor to it. But overall the suit does not need to look anywhere near as extreme as TDK suit, that thing looked like a jigsaw puzzle.

 

[Saint]

I've just never been on board with the praise that the Forever suit gets. Hate the gloss, hate the nipples, hate the dozens of little Kelley Jones style ab muscles.

Yeah, the BF suit is a pile of crap. It's Batman: Shiny Male Stripper Edition. Even the belt is ******ed.

Generally speaking, I'm anti-fake muscle (certainly for Nolan movies)--but if you're going to do it, do it the way Burton did it. The B89 suit wasn't as sharply refined as the BR suit, but under the lights in B89 it was completely wizard. That remains the only film in which I can accept that the bad guys would look at Batman and actually believe him to be supernatural.

 

[Godzilla2014]

The point, the only point, of Batman's costume is to associate him with a bat.

Any design should concentrate on that concept and the success or failure of the design should be judged on that premise. The protective nature of the suit should not be a design feature. This is where TDK suit fails miserably.

Associating Batman with a bat is a point of the Batsuit, but not the only of the Batsuit. On that premise, I think the TDK suit succeeds.

Another point of the Batsuit, in many modern incarnations, is to protect Bruce Wayne from the various threats he will face, as well as instill fear in the underworld of Gotham. That is a design feature, even if the outward appearance doesn't reflect it. Furthermore, you create a false dichotomy: It either looks armored or associates him with a bat. To me, those are not mutually exclusive. It doesn't have to look exactly like a bat (though it did for the most part in "Just Imagine If Stan Lee with Joe Kubrick Creating Batman" which was an alternate version of the character) to associate him with a bat, and it usually doesn't.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Well, one was gigantic and majestic and the other was either much smaller or just terribly underutilized, I can't tell which.

For the record, I don't think TDK cape is AWFUL, it was just a step down from Begins for it take such a backseat, whereas Begins was CAPE CITY.

Agreed.

Overall I prefer the material Nolan used in both capes to the shiny heavy capes of the old series.

I'd rather the whole suit is made from the same material (whatever that material might be) or at the very least the cape and cowl should. While i like how this cape billows (i agree that the previous ones felt heavy), i dont like how its just a piece of cloth thrown over a rubber suit, both in BB and TDK.

 

[JAK®]

Batman's design works due to it's simplicity, which is why the super-detailed TDK suit ruins his design.

 

[Mr. Earle]

To me, the military look makes sense because he is fighting a WAR on crime. It doesn't make it not look like Batman to me.

I understand your criticism, and I think it is valid, but I disagree. I prefer the general body armor look over a simple muscle suit because how many superhero's costumes look like that? Many. How many have the need and the means to wear advanced body armor? Few.

Fair enough. Personally i'd like Batman's armour to be discreet, separating him from your run of the mill swat guy. Look at how he looks like a badass in the comics and the suit is still armoured underneath. Its art, i know, but it could be done in real life.

The point of Batman's costume, in the comics and these films, is to blend into the shadows and inspire fear into criminals, not look colorful, and matches the dark man who wears it.

No. The point of the suit is to look like Batman, the way he's supposed to look. You re supposed to suspend your disbelief in order to believe that he can walk without making a sound, disappear in an instant when you look away for a bit and blend in any shadow. Its comics for god's sakes.

Its hipocritical how nobody bats an eye to the golden belt or exposed mouth but then tries to defend the stupid flaws with "teh realisms". Nolan's suit is already making compromises for the sake of imagery. Why should it look like a pile of crap then?

To me, that makes the Batsuit one of the best superhero costume designs in comics, because it makes sense for its purpose. If you want bright, colorful costumes, watch a Superman movie.

Dude... Batman has been colourful ever since his inception. He's no more serious and no less ridiculous or campy than Superman.

The point, the only point, of Batman's costume is to associate him with a bat.

Any design should concentrate on that concept and the success or failure of the design should be judged on that premise. The protective nature of the suit should not be a design feature. This is where TDK suit fails miserably.

I second this.

 

[JAK®]

Realism should be used to justify a character's appearance, not change it entirely.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Yeah, the BF suit is a pile of crap. It's Batman: Shiny Male Stripper Edition. Even the belt is ******ed.

Generally speaking, I'm anti-fake muscle (certainly for Nolan movies)--but if you're going to do it, do it the way Burton did it. The B89 suit wasn't as sharply refined as the BR suit, but under the lights in B89 it was completely wizard. That remains the only film in which I can accept that the bad guys would look at Batman and actually believe him to be supernatural.

I agree with the parts in bold. To me, the muscle suit look is kind of generic. A suit suggesting musculature is kind of standard among superheroes, and I like the idea that Batman wears body armor. It fits in with the character's preparedness, because it makes a lot of sense that a non-superpowered man who fights many other men with guns without using one himself, but resorting to his fists, his wits, and other gadgets, would be wearing body armor. It makes more sense than the idea that such a character would just wear simple fabric and wing it.

Agreed. I'd rather the whole suit is made from the same material (whatever that material might be) or at the very least the cape and cowl should. While i like how this cape billows (i agree that the previous ones felt heavy), i dont like how its just a piece of cloth thrown over a rubber suit, both in BB and TDK.

The trouble is that fabric doesn't work so well for the cowl, especially the ears, but materials like rubber make for a heavy cape. Furthermore, it makes more sense, to me, that Bruce would use the same material for the cowl and the rest of the suit than cowl and the cape. His cowl is an additional piece of armor for his head, while the cape isn't armor, it's concealment or a glider, and it needs to be lightweight, even more so than the rest of the suit. Different material needs, so different materials.

 

[JAK®]

It makes more sense than the idea that such a character would just wear simple fabric and wing it.

It does, doesn't it?

Which is why in the comics he wears armour underneath, and why everybody who is pro-fabric wants there to be armour underneath.

He wears armour underneath.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Realism should be used to justify a character's appearance, not change it entirely.

The trouble is that fabric doesn't work so well for the cowl, especially the ears, but materials like rubber make for a heavy cape.

Well they could make a suit from some sort of fabric (something like Spiderman's?) and support the cowl from underneath. I dunno. I dont want a rubber suit but i dont want a cape that feels like a towel either. It should be another kind of cloth.

Furthermore, it makes more sense, to me, that Bruce would use the same material for the cowl and the rest of the suit than cowl and the cape. His cowl is an additional piece of armor for his head, while the cape isn't armor, it's concealment or a glider, and it needs to be lightweight, even more so than the rest of the suit. Different material needs, so different materials.

Real life logic ------> out the window. Like Jak said, first design it to look good and then see if you can justify it with practicality.

 

[SimonTrent]

It does, doesn't it?

Which is why in the comics he wears armour underneath, and why everybody who is pro-fabric wants there to be armour underneath.

He wears armour underneath.

a gray fabric over the body armor is ideal, but how would you handle the whole superhero-briefs over the suit look?

 

[Godzilla2014]

Batman's design works due to it's simplicity, which is why the super-detailed TDK suit ruins his design.

I think that the overall reasons why Batman's design works or doesn't work may be subjective. I just gave the reason that it works in my opinion.

Fair enough. Personally i'd like Batman's armour to be discreet, separating him from your run of the mill swat guy. Look at how he looks like a badass in the comics and the suit is still armoured underneath. Its art, i know, but it could be done in real life.

Fair enough. I personally prefer at least hints of armor in the Batsuit. Not necessarily as much as in TDK, but some. If you want a balance, then I would say that BATMAN: ARKHAM ASYLUM is a good example.

No. The point of the suit is to look like Batman, the way he's supposed to look. You re supposed to suspend your disbelief in order to believe that he can walk without making a sound, disappear in an instant when you look away for a bit and blend in any shadow. Its comics for god's sakes.

My point is why Batman why looks like he does. To me, there are so many different ways to do Batman's costume and it still looks like Batman, from the comics to the movies.

Its hipocritical how nobody bats an eye to the golden belt or exposed mouth but then tries to defend the stupid flaws with "teh realisms". Nolan's suit is already making compromises for the sake of imagery. Why should it look like a pile of crap then?

Seeing as to how I am talking about making the belt gray or black, that isn't an example of that hypocrisy.

As for the exposed mouth, that's not as unrealistic as you might think. There's a reason why often soldiers faces aren't covered in armor: The part of the human body that people whose jobs may require shooting at another person (Military, Law Enforcement, et cetera.) teach you to aim for center mass, because, in spite of what most first-person shooters will demonstrate, it's actually pretty hard to score a headshot, especially on a moving target. Furthermore, it would be pretty hard to design armor that you can breathe through. Soldiers generally only wear gas masks when they are needed, otherwise it would be pretty hard to do things like hydrating and so on. In Batman's case, I doubt that he would run into an NBC situation often enough as a crime fighter to warrant having one over his face at all times.

Dude... Batman has been colourful ever since his inception. He's no more serious and no less ridiculous or campy than Superman.
I second this.

Batman's costume is much darker than Superman. Superman wears blue and red. Batman wears gray and black.
I am not saying that Superman is more ridiculous or campy or less serious than Batman, it's just that his costume is designed for a different purpose. Batman's costume is designed to inspire fear, Superman's costume is designed to inspire hope.

Realism should be used to justify a character's appearance, not change it entirely.

I agree, though I believe that TDK doesn't really change Batman's appearance entirely.

Well they could make a suit from some sort of fabric (something like Spiderman's?) and support the cowl from underneath. I dunno. I dont want a rubber suit but i dont want a cape that feels like a towel either. It should be another kind of cloth.

I'm not sure if they have tried that or not. As for the cape fabric, the fabric had to be lightweight to blow in the wind like it does. I don't see the whole "looks like a towel" thing either.

Real life logic ------> out the window. Like Jak said, first design it to look good and then see if you can justify it with practicality.

I'm just stating why it doesn't bother me. To me, if you don't want realism, that's fine, but that's a separate issue from what we're talking about.

a gray fabric over the body armor is ideal, but how would you handle the whole superhero-briefs over the suit look?

You could just get rid of them. Nothing the comics haven't done. Or just say it's an athletic cup or a harness.

It does, doesn't it?

Which is why in the comics he wears armour underneath, and why everybody who is pro-fabric wants there to be armour underneath.

He wears armour underneath.

Which is fine. I have heard a couple people say that, in the next series, for example, they want no armor.

 

[JAK®]

a gray fabric over the body armor is ideal, but how would you handle the whole superhero-briefs over the suit look?

Dark charcoal grey fabric with a texture like this;

If the trunks, cape, cowl, gloves and boots are black, they shouldn't stand out against the lighter areas as much as they do in the comics, which uses a lighter grey for contrast. So the trunks shouldn't be a problem.