The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread (NOT A LOUNGE) - - - Part 58

[redfirebird2008]

Aren't people hating on the movie for the sake of it and the movie actually deserving it two separate matters?

In my eyes, there was significant backlash for TDK's "overpraise" starting as soon as summer 08. I remember websites that went up simply to tear down the film.

I think if anything it'll probably be more of the same. Nolan will remain adored by the majority, with a small army of passionate haters/critics. A few people will switch sides maybe, but I think the overall pattern will repeat.

I love TDK, but come on man. I remember Peter Travers comparing Bale's Bruce Wayne to Pacino's Michael Corleone in the Godfather Part II. That is a perfect example of the kind of overpraise that went on for the film, and the backlash that went on because of it is not too surprising. The point is that since people did compare TDK to some of the best movies ever made, the sequel will be held to a ridiculously high standard. Remember how the Batvoice got made fun of as part of the backlash to TDK? Well this time around, people will not overlook that in their reviews of TDKR. They'll go right after it from the beginning.

 

[killface]

what is the consensus regarding the new spider-man movie? the people i've talked to about it are pretty indifferent/dismissive. some wont even see the movie because spider-man 3 really left a bad taste in their mouths.

i don't know, the new spider-man movie might be the batman begins of the character. a movie that would surprise people who have low expectations for it.

 

[Nevincer]

TDKR is completely Nolan's vision. He also has complete control over it. The lack of news is testament to this, as we know Nolan's preference is to hold back on promotion so the film can surprise his audience. The comparisons to Raimi (if you really believe were he not forced to have Venom, that film would be solid) in that sense are bizarre because the scenario is so nonsensically different aside from these both being the third picture.

You'd think the Riddler (the fan favourite) were in this film and it was confirmed the film would have a cameo of Henry Cavill's Superman with some of these comparisons.

 

[The_Raganork]

what is the consensus regarding the new spider-man movie? the people i've talked to about it are pretty indifferent/dismissive. some wont even see the movie because spider-man 3 really left a bad taste in their mouths.

i don't know, the new spider-man movie might be the batman begins of the character. a movie that would surprise people who have low expectations for it.

Literally.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I'm seeing the same kind of hyberbole for the Avengers. Camparisons to T2 and Jurrasic Park as the next great summer classic have been made.

 

[redfirebird2008]

TDKR is completely Nolan's vision. He also has complete control over it. The lack of news is testament to this, as we know Nolan's preference is to hold back on promotion so the film can surprise his audience. The comparisons to Raimi (if you really believe were he not forced to have Venom, that film would be solid) in that sense are bizarre because the scenario is so nonsensically different aside from these both being the third picture.

Venom isn't the only reason that movie sucked. Sandman sucked, in particular the Marshmallow Man sequence and the decision to retroactively turn Sandman into Uncle Ben's killer. I'm pretty sure that was Raimi's decision, since he claimed he loved Sandman and that was his favorite aspect of making the movie.

 

[BatLobster]

I love TDK, but come on man. I remember Peter Travers comparing Bale's Bruce Wayne to Pacino's Michael Corleone in the Godfather Part II. That is a perfect example of the kind of overpraise that went on for the film, and the backlash that went on because of it is not too surprising. The point is that since people did compare TDK to some of the best movies ever made, the sequel will be held to a ridiculously high standard. Remember how the Batvoice got made fun of as part of the backlash to TDK? Well this time around, people will not overlook that in their reviews of TDKR. They'll go right after it from the beginning.

And maybe this time they'll compare Hathaway's Selina Kyle to Audrey Hepburn's Holly Golightly

Honestly though, Peter Travers has always been kind of a d-bag to me so who knows what he'll say this time. And the bat-voice...is what it is, any professional critic who would poorly review the movie based on that deserves to be fired.

This movie will have flaws and everyone will have nitpicks. I think the argument is simply that overall it will be a great movie and be received as such.

 

[Pagan]

With promotion for The Dark Knight Rises picking up recently, it was only a matter of time before a new trailer for the movie was released. Some thought it would have been with us by now (there were rumors that it would be attached to Wrath Of The Titans), but WB seem to be biding their time. Now we have the following Tweet from British director/writer/producer Danny Allen, who says not only will we have a new trailer very soon, but that some theaters may already have it. https://***********/#!/search/dannyallenuk

 

[Miranda Fox]

I love TDK, but come on man. I remember Peter Travers comparing Bale's Bruce Wayne to Pacino's Michael Corleone in the Godfather Part II. That is a perfect example of the kind of overpraise that went on for the film, and the backlash that went on because of it is not too surprising. The point is that since people did compare TDK to some of the best movies ever made, the sequel will be held to a ridiculously high standard. Remember how the Batvoice got made fun of as part of the backlash to TDK? Well this time around, people will not overlook that in their reviews of TDKR. They'll go right after it from the beginning.

How does "overpraise" (I've put that in quote marks because it is subjective in and of itself) justify the way people reacted, though? Travers always overstates things and everyone knows that.

OTOH, I am sure we can expect bad reviews from the usual suspects who hate Nolan for some reason...(David Edelstein, are your ears burning?)

 

[batbax]

Yeah thats been debunked i think

 

[batbax]

Yeah if any "professional" critic chooses to jusdge this movie on the batvoice or "goes after it right away" that would show a very shallow view of films in general and said critic should never have "professional" before their acquired career. In fact, itd be rather pathetic. Everyone knows what the voice is or isnt at this point.

 

[redfirebird2008]

How does "overpraise" (I've put that in quote marks because it is subjective in and of itself) justify the way people reacted, though?

By reacted, I assume you mean the backlash. The reason I feel it's justified is that the movie community has a responsibility to do a thorough review of a film before sticking it in the "greatest ever" category with films that have stood the test of time after decades of scrutiny from audiences.

 

[Nevincer]

Venom isn't the only reason that movie sucked. Sandman sucked, in particular the Marshmallow Man sequence and the decision to retroactively turn Sandman into Uncle Ben's killer. I'm pretty sure that was Raimi's decision, since he claimed he loved Sandman and that was his favorite aspect of making the movie.

Yep. Why do you think I bracketed that? It was an important part

 

[batbax]

By reacted, I assume you mean the backlash. The reason I feel it's justified is that the movie community has a responsibility to do a thorough review of a film before sticking it in the "greatest ever" category with films that have stood the test of time after decades of scrutiny from audiences.

But its ok for the movie community to go after the batvoice "right away" when judging TDKR? Uh-huh.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Yep. Why do you think I bracketed that? It was an important part

Heh, I figured as much. I just like to take the chance to give Raimi his fair share of blame for SM3's suckitude since a lot of his fans seem to be in denial about it. They can blame the studio all they want for Venom, but there is no escaping the crappy ideas he and his brother came up with for Sandman. t:

 

[redfirebird2008]

But its ok for the movie community to go after the batvoice "right away" when judging TDKR? Uh-huh.

Where did I say it was OK? I merely said people are going to hold the movie to an insane standard that TDK couldn't reach, that very few movies in history have ever reached. It's just a prediction of what I expect from critics who are looking for any excuse to rip TDK's sequel. I don't condone that type of behavior, but I fully expect it.

 

[Miranda Fox]

By reacted, I assume you mean the backlash. The reason I feel it's justified is that the movie community has a responsibility to do a thorough review of a film before sticking it in the "greatest ever" category with films that have stood the test of time after decades of scrutiny from audiences.

Do they also have a responsibility to attack the filmmaker and his fanbase, which some critics did?

I mean, fair point, it is hard to say how a film will be seen 20 years from now so greatest ever is hyperbole. But I remember some pretty vicious stuff that was really personal. I can't see any justification for that.

 

[Nevincer]

Heh, I figured as much. I just like to take the chance to give Raimi his fair share of blame for SM3's suckitude since a lot of his fans seem to be in denial about it. They can blame the studio all they want for Venom, but there is no escaping the crappy ideas he and his brother came up with for Sandman. t:

And his ideas for Vulture sounded just as meh, which is why I really wasn't that sad to see that project go. The studio forcing in Felicia Hardy aside, I struggle to envision a Raimi-controlled film that would have redeemed SM3 from what we'd heard of his plans.

 

[batbax]

Where did I say it was OK? I merely said people are going to hold the movie to an insane standard that TDK couldn't reach, that very few movies in history have ever reached. It's just a prediction of what I expect from critics who are looking for any excuse to rip TDK's sequel. I don't condone that type of behavior, but I fully expect it.

cool. Just was making sure it went both ways.
And yes, I feel like there will be a lot of people looking for any little thing to rip apart about the movie, even if it is a masterpiece.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Do they also have a responsibility to attack the filmmaker and his fanbase, which some critics did?

I mean, fair point, it is hard to say how a film will be seen 20 years from now so greatest ever is hyperbole. But I remember some pretty vicious stuff that was really personal. I can't see any justification for that.

Oh no, I don't support that either. I consider myself a huge Nolan fan, so those kind of insults bother me too. We're not all a bunch of sheep who worship every single thing the guy does, despite the generalizations that people throw around.

 

[Miranda Fox]

Oh no, I don't support that either. I consider myself a huge Nolan fan, so those kind of insults bother me too. We're not all a bunch of sheep who worship every single thing the guy does, despite the generalizations that people throw around.

I see where you're coming from now.

 

[screedle]

People want to see it if they know about it. You are over-estimating the general audience they don't sit on the Hype like we do and know every little bit about it. There are people that still don't know this film is coming out whether you like to think so or not. If it is what you say it is WB would not release any more trailers. But guess what....they will with tons of TV spots that will be airing every five minutes in June and July....why? Because people need to know about something before they want to see it.

And honestly not everyone wants to see it yet. Some need to be convinced. And again TDK and Inceptions trailer came out with Iron Man 1 and 2, and people had this same argument that they need to "avoid" competition. No they don't. They need to reach the target audience they want....that is what marketing is all about. The Avengers and TDKR are not competing for one another, TDKR comes out 3 months almost after Avengers. There is no direct competition.

I think that similar to overestimating the ‘geek’ (just using the word that's already been used) share of the overall box office for TDK and other successful superhero movies, people are also overestimating the effect that this trailer will have on the success of Dark Shadows at the box office. There is a relatively small geek demographic that would pay for Dark Shadows purely to see this trailer a few days early (i.e. not already planning to see the movie). I find it hard to believe that the benefit to Dark Shadows of having TDKR trailer attached would outweigh the benefit to TDKR of attaching it to Avengers and reaching that huge GA.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I'm seeing the same kind of hyberbole for the Avengers. Camparisons to T2 and Jurrasic Park as the next great summer classic have been made.

This summer, the hyperbole is will be grand, indeed. I'll believe it when I see it but those comparing The Avengers to Judgement Day and Jurassic Park are insane.

 

[batbax]

Do they also have a responsibility to attack the filmmaker and his fanbase, which some critics did?

I mean, fair point, it is hard to say how a film will be seen 20 years from now so greatest ever is hyperbole. But I remember some pretty vicious stuff that was really personal. I can't see any justification for that.

Yup. It got to the point where people seemed so jealous or pissed off that TDK was actually as good as it was that they were picking out things in the movie that really had nothing to do with the quality of the plot or film...but just attacking to attack with really nothing to back it up.

 

[Nevincer]

Honestly, as much as I love Nolan, I'd rather he be criticized for the voice than Bale. It's my biggest pet peeve when people knock Bale's TDK performance simply because of the voice, when it was clearly Nolan's idea and done behind a filter which Nolan approved of during the editing process.