The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread (NOT A LOUNGE)

[The_Raganork]

The whole idea of Selina/Catwoman just casually coming up and shooting someone who is pretty much defeated in cool and cold blooded way, just completely feels like crapping on the potential image of the character of Bane that they seem to be building up throughout and within the film, with him being taken out eventually that easily and unspectacularly in comparison to what he will potentially do in the film.

It's not easy though.

Catwoman or anyone can shoot Bane at any part of this film. He's not superman. Getting to that point though has been difficult and nearly impossible as his superior planning, cunning and intelligence hasn't afford anyone the chance to just shoot him.

After a battle of brawn Batman comes out the victor but even THEN Bane has the advantage as he reveals the device is still out there, armed and primed to blow Gotham into nothingness and since Pavel is dead only he is capable of shutting it down, so Batman NEEDS him and if Batman wishes to save Gotham it means he has to hand Bane something that Batman can't afford...

And just then, when Batman is at the mercy of Bane again, Catwoman blows the mask off his face with his jaw and Batman is lost. How is he going to stop the bomb.

In that moment of his death. By someone Batman trusted no less, Bane has an advantage and dare we say 'won' over Batman.

Chaos ensues the remaining mercs try to make a push back against Batman since Bane is now dead and just as they do the tumbler outside takes off. It someone how becomes apparent the bomb is on the HMTT truck (with Gordon hanging on trying to disarm it) and Catwoman retreats on the Batpod to apprehend it.

Batman deals with the rest of the Mercs and gets into the Bat and flies off to chase Catwoman/Tumblers/HEMTT.

Talia leaves city hall before the cops retake it.

 

[Van Petrol]

http://batman-news.com/2012/04/08/the-dark-knight-rises-receives-a-pg-13-rating/

Sensuality. Hathaway bringin dat ****.

The last two were PG-13 too, right?

 

[AnneFan]

Brilliant post, rag.

 

[Van Petrol]

It could work. Look at BB. Bruce effectively outs himself to Rachel in his 'not who you are underneath' speech in the last act. And they meet up at the end of the film at Wayne Manor's ruins.

It could do, though this potential scenario feels more significant, with her crossing that line that Bruce 'seemingly' will not cross morally (Yeah, I know what happened to those LoS ninjas in the monastery lrazz.

 

[kvz5]

The last two were PG-13 too, right?

Yup but with "malice" and no "sensuality".

 

[AnneFan]

It could do, though this potential scenario feels more significant, with her crossing that line that Bruce 'seemingly' will not cross morally (Yeah, I know what happened to those LoS ninjas in the monastery lrazz.

Both situations are significant. In one, Gotham will be fear gassed out of its mind. Here blown to bits. Both require action to be taken now, and regardless of his view about Catwoman killing Bane, Batman would have to keep moving. It would be time for emotion later.

 

[The_Raganork]

Both situations are significant. In one, Gotham will be fear gassed out of its mind. Here blown to bits. Both require action to be taken now, and regardless of his view, Batman would have to keep moving. It would be time for emotion later.

In fact the idea of having to save Bane from a critical injury in the end, parallels Ra's.

He didn't save Ra's perhaps he sees this as a fault of some kind.

He has the choice, the new maturity from TDK to save Bane but at the same time, saving him might come at a high cost.

Then Selina may not agree.

 

[Van Petrol]

It's not easy though.

Catwoman or anyone can shoot Bane at any part of this film. He's not superman. Getting to that point though has been difficult and nearly impossible as his superior planning, cunning and intelligence hasn't afford anyone the chance to just shoot him.

This in particular makes the whole concept of Selina shooting Bane that easily when he is vunerable hard to sit with, with me, as it seems an almost unspectcular exit for a character that has built up so much momentum potentially within the film.

After a battle of brawn Batman comes out the victor but even THEN Bane has the advantage as he reveals the device is still out there, armed and primed to blow Gotham into nothingness and since Pavel is dead only he is capable of shutting it down, so Batman NEEDS him and if Batman wishes to save Gotham it means he has to hand Bane something that Batman can't afford...

And just then, when Batman is at the mercy of Bane again, Catwoman blows the mask off his face with his jaw and Batman is lost. How is he going to stop the bomb.

In that moment of his death. By someone Batman trusted no less, Bane has an advantage and dare we say 'won' over Batman.

I can already hear a collective call out amongst the audience of "FFS! Woman!!!" already ringing out.

Chaos ensues the remaining mercs try to make a push back against Batman since Bane is now dead and just as they do the tumbler outside takes off. It someone how becomes apparent the bomb is on the HMTT truck (with Gordon hanging on trying to disarm it) and Catwoman retreats on the Batpod to apprehend it.

Batman deals with the rest of the Mercs and gets into the Bat and flies off to chase Catwoman/Tumblers/HEMTT.

Talia leaves city hall before the cops retake it.

Yeah, I can understand you're reasoning with this scenario, but it still feels 'meh' to me.


Btw, can I just ask Rag, do you know anything or have any real incline as to the whole 'Catwoman shooting Bane angle' actually going down, or are you just hypothesising too? This way, if it actually is going to play out like this, I can put myself out of my misery right now with the the disappointment.

 

[Van Petrol]

Both situations are significant. In one, Gotham will be fear gassed out of its mind. Here blown to bits. Both require action to be taken now, and regardless of his view about Catwoman killing Bane, Batman would have to keep moving. It would be time for emotion later.

Nah, I wasn't referring to the threats at hand (i.e. the fear gas/doomsday device), but rather the significance of the moments in amongst the chaos (Bruce's reveal/Catwoman shooting Bane dead).

For example, if things played out as Rag, has summised, I'd expect the echange betwee Batman and Catwoman before he is about to fly off with the doomsday device, to be preet cold on Batman's behalf, as he would be in a still in a state of doubt, shock, etc. in regards to what she had just done previously.

Btw, doesn't Batman yell during that scene, [BLACKOUT]"I'm GOING AFTER HIM!" [/BLACKOUT]

 

[The_Raganork]

This in particular makes the whole concept of Selina shooting Bane that easily when he is vunerable hard to sit with, with me, as it seems an almost unspectcular exit for a character that has built up so much momentum potentially within the film.

I'm not sure why you say that. You still get a big fight between Batman and Bane all the way to the end.

you're either going to be missing Bane slowly die or be taken away. I don't see how him going out as a winner even in death, whilst adding complexity and tension between Catwoman and Batman is unspectacular.

Again, the fight reaches a conclusion. Batman beats Bane and just as he realizes keeping Bane alive is a defeat in itself but he has to and comes to grips with that, it's ripped from him.

Another person he needed to live...dead.

Btw, can I just ask Rag, do you know anything or have any real incline as to the whole 'Catwoman shooting Bane angle' actually going down, or are you just hypothesising too? This way, if it actually is going to play out like this, I can put myself out of my misery right now with the the disappointment.

No.

 

[The_Raganork]

Nah, I wasn't referring to the threats at hand (i.e. the fear gas/doomsday device), but rather the significance of the moments in amongst the chaos (Bruce's reveal/Catwoman shooting Bane dead).

For example, if things played out as Rag, has summised, I'd expect the echange betwee Batman and Catwoman before he is about to fly off with the doomsday device, to be preet cold on Batman's behalf, as he would be in a still in a state of doubt, shock, etc. in regards to what she had just done previously.

Btw, doesn't Batman yell during that scene, [BLACKOUT]"I'm GOING AFTER HIM!" [/BLACKOUT]

Ah but is what she did that much different than his own personal problems with Ra's 9 years prior? Wasn't Bane really too dangerous to keep alive?

Perhaps he understands but is disappointed with her and there are so many things still to do. Like stopping that 'bomb' and for what its worth, getting the HEMTT truck to stop is partially thanks to her.

Desperate times...

 

[Van Petrol]

In fact the idea of having to save Bane from a critical injury in the end, parallels Ra's.

He didn't save Ra's perhaps he sees this as a fault of some kind.

He has the choice, the new maturity from TDK to save Bane but at the same time, saving him might come at a high cost.

Then Selina may not agree.

I like that idea, and would entertain it playing out like that, but then probably roll me eyes at Selina butting in and calling the shots (no pun intended).

 

[ChrisB]

The last two were PG-13 too, right?

Yeah, the real news here is WHY it's PG-13.

Intense sequences of violence and action, some sensuality and language

Sensuality? Catwoman. Language too? Maybe Bane drops an F-bomb!

 

[AnneFan]

Nah, I wasn't referring to the threats at hand (i.e. the fear gas/doomsday device), but rather the significance of the moments in amongst the chaos (Bruce's reveal/Catwoman shooting Bane dead).

Alright, but as I posted: regardless of his view about Catwoman killing Bane, Batman would have to keep moving. It would be time for emotion later.

For example, if things played out as Rag, has summised, I'd expect the echange betwee Batman and Catwoman before he is about to fly off with the doomsday device, to be preet cold on Batman's behalf, as he would be in a still in a state of doubt, shock, etc. in regards to what she had just done previously.

There is footage of Catwoman hugging Batman (her being extra nice because she knows how he feels about her action, maybe?), but indeed, Batman may not respond to it as he's all business about getting this bomb out.

 

[The_Raganork]

I like that idea, and would entertain it playing, but then probably roll me eyes at Selina butting in and calling the shots (no pun intended).

I don't know, I still think we're imagining similar but different situations. It's not her calling the shots it's her using Batman to get something she wants. It's a moment where we are reminded (after being duped into believing maybe these people are on the same plane of thinking) that all along she was never someone who could be really trusted to follow the same code as Batman.

We should also remember, there's a big battle still raging outside. It's a massive desperate battle so tensions are probably very high, just outside

Spoiler

Foley is shooting at a tumbler before throwing a female cop out of the way and being hit by it

There's a lot of break neck action occurring, I'm not sure if it's going to be the perfect time to lay out a long dying monologue, assuming that's what happens to Bane at that moment.

I would think the odds are still against them.

 

[Van Petrol]

I'm not sure why you say that. You still get a big fight between Batman and Bane all the way to the end.

you're either going to be missing Bane slowly die or be taken away. I don't see how him going out as a winner even in death, whilst adding complexity and tension between Catwoman and Batman is unspectacular.

Again, the fight reaches a conclusion. Batman beats Bane and just as he realizes keeping Bane alive is a defeat in itself but he has to and comes to grips with that, it's ripped from him.

Another person he needed to live...dead.

It would feel weird to me because I have a feeling that the majority consensus would ramble on about Catwoman being the one to effectively end Bane, while also undermining all that has gone down between Baman and Bane. That's why I feel the whole affair/rivalry that is seemingly being built between the two should end and finish between the two.

No.

K. So there's still hope...

 

[The_Raganork]

It would feel weird to me because I have a feeling that the majority consensus would ramble on about Catwoman being the one to effectively end Bane, while also undermining all that has gone down between Baman and Bane. That's why I feel the whole affair/rivalry that is seemingly being built between the two should end and finish between the two.

ok...

I just don't...see it that way. I see Batman and Bane finishing their rivalry in Batman's success over beating him.

The Catwoman thing is just extra. It's not even virtuous, the man is beaten down and she shoots him.

He's beaten by Batman and killed by Catwoman

 

[Van Petrol]

Ah but is what she did that much different than his own personal problems with Ra's 9 years prior? Wasn't Bane really too dangerous to keep alive?

I don't know. Whereas Batman, you could say left him to his demise, he still didn't take him out just like that, and gave him with something, reagrdles of how miniscule and useless it may have been, whereas Selina would be taking it away just like that, with nothing of such a chance, so to speak, that Batman left Ra's with.

Perhaps he understands but is disappointed with her and there are so many things still to do. Like stopping that 'bomb' and for what its worth, getting the HEMTT truck to stop is partially thanks to her.

Desperate times...

How is this partuicularly, I was under the impression that the HEMTT was brought to it's halt by Batman firing upon it and then its crashing to the level below. It looks as those Selina gives chase, but doesn't seem to have any real hand in bringing it to its halt.

 

[Van Petrol]

Yeah, the real news here is WHY it's PG-13.

Intense sequences of violence and action, some sensuality and language

Sensuality? Catwoman. Language too? Maybe Bane drops an F-bomb!

It a British accent too. That would be gold!

 

[Van Petrol]

Alright, but as I posted: regardless of his view about Catwoman killing Bane, Batman would have to keep moving. It would be time for emotion later.

Fair point.

There is footage of Catwoman hugging Batman (her being extra nice because she knows how he feels about her action, maybe?), but indeed, Batman may not respond to it as he's all business about getting this bomb out.

Yeah, but I'd also think it would have to do with what she has just done too, if it plays out this way.

 

[TinkerTailor]

Yeah, the real news here is WHY it's PG-13.

Intense sequences of violence and action, some sensuality and language

Sensuality? Catwoman. Language too? Maybe Bane drops an F-bomb!

Maybe they misheard him.

I don't have any problem with Catwoman playing a part in Bane's demise. Its a fitting reminder of the consequences of Bruce's actions: watching one archetypal extreme kill another at the expense of the city while he tries to bring order to the madness.

 

[Van Petrol]

I don't know, I still think we're imagining similar but different situations. It's not her calling the shots it's her using Batman to get something she wants. It's a moment where we are reminded (after being duped into believing maybe these people are on the same plane of thinking) that all along she was never someone who could be really trusted to follow the same code as Batman.

We should also remember, there's a big battle still raging outside. It's a massive desperate battle so tensions are probably very high, just outside

Spoiler

Foley is shooting at a tumbler before throwing a female cop out of the way and being hit by it

There's a lot of break neck action occurring, I'm not sure if it's going to be the perfect time to lay out a long dying monologue, assuming that's what happens to Bane at that moment.

I would think the odds are still against them.

Fair point.

 

[The_Raganork]

I don't know. Whereas Batman, you could say left him to his demise, he still didn't take him out just like that, and gave him with something, reagrdles of how miniscule and useless it may have been, whereas Selina would be taking it away just like that, with nothing of such a chance, so to speak, that Batman left Ra's with.

I don't disagree, this line of thought is exactly part of the battle of what happened. I think this and the opposite are battles in Bruce's thinking and presented to the audience.

How is this partuicularly, I was under the impression that the HEMTT was brought to it's halt by Batman firing upon it and then its crashing to the level below. It looks as those Selina gives chase, but doesn't seem to have any real hand in bringing it to its halt.

I'm fairly certain that along with the Bat firing upon the HEMTT truck there are videos of Catwoman on the Batpod firing on it as well

EDIT [YT]v6CCrlqM2Y8[/YT]

 

[Van Petrol]

ok...

I just don't...see it that way. I see Batman and Bane finishing their rivalry in Batman's success over beating him.

The Catwoman thing is just extra. It's not even virtuous, the man is beaten down and she shoots him.

He's beaten by Batman and killed by Catwoman

I'd agree with that, though the Catwoman part still feels like a cop out to me. Sorry man, I just don't like that possibility at all.

 

[AnneFan]

Yeah, but I'd also think it would have to do with what she has just done too, if it plays out this way.

Hm? Yeah I raised that: her being extra nice because she knows how he feels about her action, maybe?

Ah but is what she did that much different than his own personal problems with Ra's 9 years prior? Wasn't Bane really too dangerous to keep alive?

Good point. He can see parts of himself in her, and believes he can help her grow like he did.