The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 31

[DaveMoral]

That's a bad ass gun.

Reminds me of the REC in Arkham City.

 

[The_Raganork]

Man oh man, just like the other night with the whole "Nolanite" issue reading your posts and trying to understand how you ultimately feel is like this back and forth enigma. In the end, Batman expresses both the liberal decision that you feel the character did as well as the conservative view that Optimus observed. Who's to say Batman had the self destruct system implemented because "it was right" or "wrong" to have the machine in the first place? There's the possibility that decision could have also been made if the device got into the wrong hands, one of the reasons Batman chose Fox to handle it. I like the fact that Batman is morally ambiguous in a few scenes/ This character obviously had this sonar concept in the works before the threat of the Joker. Optimus brings up a good point as to why Batman would just carelessly "throw it away" after all the time and money that must have been put into it by the R&D team, BEHIND Fox's back. You never know, maybe Batman did destroy it because Fox was offended, not because he always intended to do it after finding the Joker. What if the Joker or someone similar to the Joker was out there again? Wouldn't it be a waste to destroy the sonar machine only to build it again? I also love the cold answer of "type in your name". I remember my first viewing that I thought that it basically meant, "after you're done here, sure, get the hell out of here and resign". Later on of course, when you see the machine on the fritz, you understand the implications of that line. Would have been nice to see an even more distant and cold Batman (especially after what happened with Rachel). Not to get into a political debate, but I personally feel Fox was overreacting but that's a completely different topic altogether and not one I'd like to get into.

You can hypothesize about things not shown or even implied in the films all you like. The facts still stand. He destroyed the machine by giving Fox the code. It would have been interesting to see Batman not have done that and kept the device but for all intents and purposes when we see the machine we're supposed to think: "Oh man...that's cool but it's spying" and when it's destroyed we're supposed to breathe a sigh of relief.

The implication of the last shot of Fox is that his faith in Bruce was rewarded ultimately, that Bruce built this thing not with the intention of spying on Gotham and instead of keeping the power (like Ceasar was brought up earlier in the film) destroyed it because it's the "right" thing to do.

Whether or not we agree what the "Right" and "wrongs" are is not important, that's how it's presented in the film.

Like he said: "Beautiful, isn't it?". Also, like the other poster says, it's delivered so confidently like "I don't give a sh** what you think, this f***ing thing is my masterpiece".

Even if he acts contradictory, it didn't take much for him to backpeddle such an emphatic statement.

"Beautiful, isn't it?"
"...blah blah, I'm quiting"
"Oh, well, ya'know, I don't like it that much, eh, just destroy it when your done"

There was no deliberation about the positive and negatives, no arm twisting, Batman just completely backpeddled. I mean you could've had a scenario where Batman creates (hypothetically let's say it's towards the beginning of the film for sake of argument) the machine, Lucius quits, he realizes "I can't do this without him" and then reconsiders his positon. Then there is some actual catharsis, and some actual deliberation. Instead, as I say, it just ends up being the "God Machine" (almost literally). I kind of liked the machine, very interesting as far as comic book machines go, but I'd rather it have been fleshed out more rather than just crammed into the end.

The only thing I'm disagreeing with is that he backpeddled. I think he was proud of the machine and the fact that he could catch Joker but always knew and struggled with the moral ramifications. When he presented it to Fox, before Fox said anything he knew he was going to destroy it.

 

[zmystico]

I didn't think he was so much "proud" of the machine where as much he was in "awe" of it, the ability to map the entire city, he knew it was possible, but now it was a reality. I never thought he "lost it", but knew this was the only way to get The Joker...he had to "burn down the forest". I think he knew Fox would be opposed to it, hence why it's only Fox's name that will cause it to self-destruct, if Fox didn't do it, no one else would be able to help him, he knew Fox was the ONLY person that could operate it. That's why the power isn't in Batman's hands, but in Fox's hands.

He never intended to keep this machine around forever or to use it again, he knew the illegality of it, but had to do it anyway.

Batman often operates outside of the law, but not to contradict it, but to preserve it...that's what TDK was all about, him having to make the tough choices no one else can, he's a guardian...not a hero.

 

[dark_b]

this was in the prologue.

IMO this is from the police chase. i think its the opening action after the prologue.

i think it is very interesting that he doesnt have the claws on teh arms. could it be that he doesnt want to hurt anyone?

 

[zmystico]

this was in the prologue.

IMO this is from the police chase. i think its the opening action after the prologue.

i think it is very interesting that he doesnt have the claws on teh arms. could it be that he doesnt want to hurt anyone?

He wears them regardless...I think he's used them.

 

[Vengeance of Bane]

this was in the prologue.

IMO this is from the police chase. i think its the opening action after the prologue.

i think it is very interesting that he doesnt have the claws on teh arms. could it be that he doesnt want to hurt anyone?

Hid did shoot the claws at the Joker, so I could take place during TDK.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Well, he apparently built it with the intention of destroying it at some point. There doesn't really seem much time to deliberate and in the context of the movie, we're meant to see Batman bending his rules to the point of breaking and the sonar machine represents that.

That's essentially the problem. See what a lot of y'all are doing is surmising things that are not shown in the movie, which is great, but that's the writer's job, not yours.

You or I can surmise an explanation, the movie didn't present it this way. I actually even considered the possibility that when he said "[his] faith rewarded" at the end he meant he was simply making him think it was destroyed. Seeing as faith and actuality can be two different things. Although they show it shutting down, so that too is just my supposition, not really based on anything shown.

Such a crucial device to the plot, especially one as imaginative as that one, should have been given a little more meat. Moreover, it kind of kills the analogy a bit because really if his intention is to just find the Joker from the onset and destroy it the only one's whose privacy he invades is the Jokers.

Even more to the point, is it really out of character? He was essentially stalking Dent and Dawes in the beginning, even before they were targets of the Joker. He then joked (but the way the line was delivered not really) he'd have Alfred followed on his day off "if he ever took one". Again, seeming quite proud of invading others privacy, which is a very Batman-esque trait.

Also, if he has this machine during that point in the film, why didn't he know where Dent was as well. The cops Dent was killing would've had cellphones.

 

[rashad]

 

[Mako]

Why couldn't they have just released the pics from EMPIRE a couple days later at this resolution ? Damn you WB marketing

 

[Parquagh]

Hid did shoot the claws at the Joker, so I could take place during TDK.

The claws reappear when Batman faces Harvey and the gloves look more plastic-like in TDK, this ones look more like leather, as if they were custom made for using the weapon if it is some sort of electrical device.... it could be the lighting

 

[rashad]

 

[Nightwing 52]

That is awesome.

 

[craigdbfan]

He looks great there. The costume is looking real sharp under these lighting conditions.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Love the look on Batman's face as he is getting ready to take a swing at Bane in the snowstorm fight scene...pure determination.

If someone has a way of posting that, please do.

 

[Citadel30]

Badass

 

[Dr Lee]

where are all these images coming from?

 

[Micromind]

Amazing pics.

 

[Mako]

Nice to see these in higher res

 

[ChrisB]

Super big version of Batman and his new gadget.

Spoiler

Where did this come from?

 

[Yurka]

He looks great there. The costume is looking real sharp under these lighting conditions.

Indeed. Keep him in dark atmospheres and he looks incredible...

 

[ChrisB]

Anyone know where all these HQ images came from? I'm writing up a post now about them. Thanks!

 

[Mako]

Anyone know where all these HQ images came from? I'm writing up a post now about them. Thanks!

PM Sent, not sure about the other ones though

 

[Dragon_316ca]

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2011/12/22/dark-knight-rises-catwoman-theme/
Zimmer on Catwoman's theme:

"She will have [a theme], she hasn't yet," Zimmer said of his plans for Catwoman's theme in the score. "That's got something to do with I haven't written it. Of course I'm working on that. Right now my dilemma is I have far too many ideas and it will take me some time to actually execute them and put them in some sort of order."

 

[The Joker]

Indeed. Keep him in dark atmospheres and he looks incredible...

You must be ecstatic that he's going to have daylight scenes in the Bat suit

 

[Mako]

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2011/12/22/dark-knight-rises-catwoman-theme/
Zimmer on Catwoman's theme:

Nice find and here are some more high res pics.

Spoiler

From Nolanfans