The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread - Part 43

[Spideyfan93]

Concerning the "death", wouldn't it be inevitable? Of course its a spoiler, but I would expect that character to die rather than live.

You can't let that character live because he or she is extremely dangerous. No one could persuade a person with morals that he or she possesses.

 

[kvz5]

I think Bane will die by his own hand.

 

[ron1705]

And take Gotham down with him.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

Cool to see The Dark Knight treading on Twitter couple of minutes of ago.

 

[Falcone]

I disagree. I don't think that he's on Batman duty every single night with those 8 years being "peace time" and the GCPD still hounding him but I don't think that he completely retired during those 8 years. This is a Bruce that needs Batman more than Gotham needs Batman.

I agree, but it's not like an obsession. A serial killer needs to kill. Being Batman helps Bruce cope with his issues, but I don't feel like his this compulsion like a serial killer has when he's sucking life out of a human being.

Bruce will certainly be out of commission for a while when Bane defeats him. Gordon might be alluding to that.

After Bane defeats Batman, he is in total submission. He grows a beard and is stranded in a cot, it looks like. Though it's hard to tell from the teaser, he does not sound defeated (the adjective that comes to mind is conflicted). I submit that Bruce becomes Batman, confronts Bane, gets messed up, ends up in the prison, and trains for his comeback in prison. You can clearly see Bruce doing PT in a prison cell in the teaser. He makes the decision to bounce back from his defeat while in the prison, not seeing Gordon on his deathbed.

EDIT: Also, the dialogue makes it sound like he's been gone a while.

Gordon: "We were in this together, and then you were gone. Now this evil... rises. The Batman has to come back."
Bruce: "What if he doesn't exist anymore?"

That dialogue suggests a leave of absence if you ask me.

He has a new and improved Batcave, a new toy (LED gun thingie) and The Bat.

He built the Batcave relatively quickly in Begins, it wouldn't be a stretch that it gets upgraded over the course of TDKR. Also, I imagine the damage from the fire in BB was minimal, so once Wayne Manor is rebuilt, getting the cave accessible ought to be a cinch.

As for the new gun, it too could be designed over the course of the film. Also, just because something is used by Batman for the first time doesn't mean it was built in between films. Wayne Enterprises might have built it before, hell, even BB takes place. It just hasn't been practical for him to use it.

The best argument you have is for The Bat. This thing probably would have been used already if it had been built. But I still contend Batman's suit is the same, and he hasn't replaced the Tumbler. I just don't know why those things wouldn't have been taken care of over the course of the eight years if he were active.

He started out being Batman even without someone like The Joker as an opponent. And who's to say that he wasn't fighting someone like the Joker during those 8 years

You're right, maybe there were a plethora of Bat adventures between the eight years. It is a wonder, if that were the case, why Nolan decided not chronicle them in film. Also, yeah, Batman went after the relatively unexciting criminals in his early days, but the stakes were low. Would you go after a Maroni or Falcone if you knew the stakes after the conclusion of TDK?

 

[camp Blood]

that's why I hope they do another Gotham knight covering the gap between TDK and TDKR

 

[Street Vendor]

that's why I hope they do another Gotham knight covering the gap between TDK and TDKR

I think we'd know about that already if it was happening(but I do love surprises).

 

[Falcone]

I think Bane will die by his own hand.

Yeah, I think Bane is a goner. I like the rumor that he kills himself by pushing his body too hard. His anesthetic makes it so that he has no feeling (which explains why he's so muscular). I heard a while back that he dies in the climax from trying to do so much, and he unwittingly breaks every bone in his body without noticing it.

 

[Falcone]

You know, I just rewatched the prologue. I had a few thoughts:

1) I am starting to doubt Bane's involvement with the League. First of all, their attacks seem nothing like the League. They practice refined martial arts, yet Bane punches for the jugular. Next, the League works in the shadows, and yet Bane is clearly in the public eye. As a derivative of that, is it like the League to recruit hundreds to directly lead riots?

Also, would the League would be willing to give up one of their own so easily? Become a member is a long, difficult process that takes valuable to time to develop. This might be nitpicky, but save the two Ra's's, have we ever heard a member of the League talk?

Shooting out windows also throws me off the League scent. Have we ever seen a member of the League just mow down people with SMGs? Also, Bane's gang is motivated by "the fire." Why have we not heard this cult-like theme before, and why have we not heard their signature chant?

2) Bane wasn't injured as a child. "No one cared who I was before I put on the mask." To me, this implies that he had an empty existence before the transformation that required the mask. Most people don't experience empty childhoods- childhoods are inherently empty. Am I missing the true meaning of this quote?

3) I'm really torn on what I think about Bane's self-perception. On the one hand, he looks confident and self-satisfied as he graces city hall. It looks like part of the reason he's doing this is to satisfy himself. However, as soon as CIA asks "Who are you?" he doesn't reply directly. He refers to "we," which isn't self-righteous at all. "What matters is our plan." First person plural. And discussing "our plan..." It seems to me, during the prologue, he's very politically minded. Like a fundamentalist. He truly believes in what he's doing. The young man is willing to die for "the fire." Perhaps the mission becomes more personal after Bruce's involvement?

5) I'm totally lost on what the point of this entire scene was. Yes, it was a badass introduction to our villain, but why did this plane scene take place? He says he got on the plane to figure out what Pavel told the CIA, but to me, it seems pointless. Did he figure out what Pavel told the CIA? The only thing I can see Bane accomplishing is convincing the government Pavel died in the crash.

Also, Rag, if you're reading this, I admit defeat. A few afternoons ago, we debated about whether taking Bane off his anesthetic would make him go ape****. I see your point about the "For you" line. He was saying "It would be painful for you," with subtlety, but had to clarify after CIA misunderstood.

 

[Goku Goes Crazy]

Ohhh I'm calling it. At this Expo in the middle of march that RIM is attending, they are going to show a clip of catwoman!

 

[Bats123]

Have you guys seen this?
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/specials/34311-dishy-pasta-bra

I know it doesnt look like TDKR related but, just watch.

 

[clowns]

5) I'm totally lost on what the point of this entire scene was.

I suspect their kidnapping of Dr. Pavel will lead to that giant 'bomb' device we've seen. From the viral documents we know he is some sort of doctor / scientist. So now Bane and his guys have him, and everyone else thinks he's dead so they won't be looking.

All that said - I agree with many of your points, very well written. I don't think Bane and his guys are with the league either, perhaps working together, who knows, but it seems clear that whatever they are part of is a different group. It doesn't resemble anything we saw with the League in BB, the eastern influence, technique, style, etc.

A bit more spoiler heavy, so I'll put this in tags -

Spoiler

However, there were those leaked shots of Talia coming out with some of Bane's armed henchmen, so it does appear at some point they will work together.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

I am starting to doubt Bane's involvement with the League.

I also think Bane isn't part o the League, but he's a mercenary who has been hired by them. However...

Shooting out windows also throws me off the League scent. Have we ever seen a member of the League just mow down people with SMGs? Also, Bane's gang is motivated by "the fire."

Well, the League did have weapons in Begins, both when Bruce visited their headquarters and when after they burnt down Wayne Manor. Also, Ra's tell Bruce this in the manor "When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable and natural." - probably just a coincidence but hey .

I think Bane and Talia (the League) will be working together, as partners.

'm totally lost on what the point of this entire scene was. Yes, it was a badass introduction to our villain, but why did this plane scene take place? He says he got on the plane to figure out what Pavel told the CIA, but to me, it seems pointless. Did he figure out what Pavel told the CIA? The only thing I can see Bane accomplishing is convincing the government Pavel died in the crash.

I don't remember the interview and exact quote, but Nolan said that it was just to introduce people to Bane and a taste of the rest of the film. Basically, an action scene to hook the audience in, so that Nolan can then slowly introduce them to the new Gotham - there's gonna be a lot of catching up to do with all that's been going on with Gotham for the 8 years, so it's best to ease the viewer in by opening with an action scene that also showcases Bane's intelligence.

 

[Travesty]

Where has anybody said the movie comes full circle?

 

[Ramsay Snow]

i think he is remember Nolan said it comes full circle bane is number 2 he wanted to take over the league but rass said bruce is better

so bane gets his own men to follow him his league of showdows

I really hope Bane will not be Ra's' student - that feels so weird to me. I'm more happy with him being a mercenary, working for the League.

 

[Travesty]

Nolan said it and the actors

I don't believe you.

 

[Falcone]

I also think Bane isn't part o the League, but he's a mercenary who has been hired by them. However...

Also, Ra's tell Bruce this in the manor "When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable and natural." - probably just a coincidence but hey .

Yeah, he's been called a merc by the CIA guy. Maybe the US gov't just has a very skewed POV of what Bane actually does. Ra's too could have been seen as a hitman. I really hope you're wrong about him simply being a mercenary, he seems politically and philosophically motivated.

I like the fire quote. You're right, it's probably nothing, but it would be cool if they made the coincidence work in a flashback to heighten the experience.

I'm gonna be honest- I really, really want Bane to be a protege of Ra's. This is pure speculation, but I love the idea of an epic hero facing his antithesis. Batman fighting the man he was supposed to become- something about that conflict just gets me wet. I want to see the story unfold by Bane's quest to become a legend by committing himself to an ideal, but to the wrong ideal.

This scenario would have easily topped my fascination with the Joker-Batman rivalry. It would have made the fight as equally personal as the fight against the monster who killed his ove. But I don't think it will happen, though.

I suspect their kidnapping of Dr. Pavel will lead to that giant 'bomb' device we've seen. From the viral documents we know he is some sort of doctor / scientist. So now Bane and his guys have him, and everyone else thinks he's dead so they won't be looking.

All that said - I agree with many of your points, very well written. I don't think Bane and his guys are with the league either, perhaps working together, who knows, but it seems clear that whatever they are part of is a different group. It doesn't resemble anything we saw with the League in BB, the eastern influence, technique, style, etc.

A bit more spoiler heavy, so I'll put this in tags -

Spoiler

However, there were those leaked shots of Talia coming out with some of Bane's armed henchmen, so it does appear at some point they will work together.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I'm assuming Pavel built the "doomsday device" as it were. It's gonna be interesting to see (assuming Bane isn't LoS) how Nolan can justify someone else that wants Gotham leveled.

I think my favorite rumor was that Bane isn't in the League, but rather a member of a splinter group that had a following out, perhaps after Talia took over the group after Ra's. Perhaps the scene you described typifies a renewed union between the LoS and Bane's group.

 

[Boom]

Laker, you may want to use the Edit Button. The mods don't like people double-posting.

Welcome to the Hype, though .

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Yeah, he's been called a merc by the CIA guy. Maybe the US gov't just has a very skewed POV of what Bane actually does. Ra's too could have been seen as a hitman. I really hope you're wrong about him simply being a mercenary, he seems politically and philosophically motivated.

Well, in EMPIRE, it was stated that he's a warrior and mercenary. Furthermore, in the prologue, Josh Stewart's character - Bane's number one - also referred to him as "the mercenary" and "the masked man". But you're right, I'm sure he won't be your ordinary mercenary, because of the chanting and cult status he seems to have.

I'm gonna be honest- I really, really want Bane to be a protege of Ra's. This is pure speculation, but I love the idea of an epic hero facing his antithesis. Batman fighting the man he was supposed to become- something about that conflict just gets me wet. I want to see the story unfold by Bane's quest to become a legend by committing himself to an ideal, but to the wrong ideal.

This scenario would have easily topped my fascination with the Joker-Batman rivalry. It would have made the fight as equally personal as the fight against the monster who killed his ove. But I don't think it will happen, though.

I'm not a fan of Bane being Ra's' protege - it just rubs me the wrong way for some reason, at least in concept. However, unlike me, you've explained your reasons for wanting this and they are very interesting and deep. The way you've described it is really great.

 

[AnneFan]

Full stops are good too.

 

[Falcone]

Full stops are good too.

this is the funniest thing i've ever read on a message board.

 

[AnneFan]

Hopefully we get something decent from this March expo - that isn't toy related! Don't mind the toys but y'know, give us something film related WB!

 

[Falcone]

Yup.

 

[Oneironaut]

lakerskobe, I'm sorry to wise you up, but you are incomprehensible.

 

[Ant-LOX]

How long will this film be? I would love for it to be a 3 hour epic, but I'm not everyone - But it has to at least last as long as TDK did. And I hope the escalating tempo set in TDK is used as well, that film is non-stop.