BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 1

[Kal-El.9859]

I just don't want to see them ditch the Clark Kent reporter persona. I mean, he can still be Clark Kent when he's in private with Lois, his mom and whoever else knows his secret...

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

That doesn't change anything. This thread is called the UNABASHED spoiler thread. Anything and everything we get our hands on will make its way into this thread, and it's entirely possible that the entire film has already been spoiled. All I'm saying is that this probably isn't the best place for you.

So by coming in here you think I'm lost or can't read? I am very much aware of what this thread is about and that is why I came in here. I'm traveling around heard some rumors and where better to clear them up then in a thread dedicated to all things spoiler?

 

[Rapunzel]

So if he's debunking the reddit links, he must be debunking PaleMonster, cause Pale's synopsis was identical to that last reddit.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

It seems you don't want it spoiled for you, but I can tell you - if the movie is like the previous spoilers - then Superman walks away at the end as having been the most heroic and getting "the" moment in the film.

I just hope it's similar and we weren't dicked around.

Hey I know where I am, and I don't want to prevent people from there spoiler love in here.....Oh screw it, Superman dies I know this...but some Supes fans are complaining because Batman wins the fight between them. But none of the complaints mentioned if Superman let him win or not...like Bucky "winning" the fight in TWS.

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

Hey I know where I am, and I don't want to prevent people from there spoiler love in here.....Oh screw it, Superman dies I know this...but some Supes fans are complaining because Batman wins the fight between them. But none of the complaints mentioned if Superman let him win or not...like Bucky "winning" the fight in TWS.

I think those complaints are kind of crazy.

Superman fans, if they understand the character, should realize he doesn't care about winning as something as petty as a fight with Batman. All Superman cares about is saving people, and if that means getting his butt kicked because he won't kill Batman, then Superman wins the ideological battle and comes out the better hero.

 

[TDKR1977]

Hey I know where I am, and I don't want to prevent people from there spoiler love in here.....Oh screw it, Superman dies I know this...but some Supes fans are complaining because Batman wins the fight between them. But none of the complaints mentioned if Superman let him win or not...like Bucky "winning" the fight in TWS.

I'm the biggest Bat fan you'll ever find. Having said that, OF COURSE Supes let's him win. That's the only way he COULD win.

 

[TX85]

If the spoilers are real, it says the fight between Batman and Superman is overall about even and the ending makes Superman more heroic with his sacrifice being a huge thing and Bruce ends up changing his attitude towards Superman. So I don't get the complaints about Batman getting favored or whatever.

 

[InspecktahDeck]

I think those complaints are kind of crazy.

Superman fans, if they understand the character, should realize he doesn't care about winning as something as petty as a fight with Batman. All Superman cares about is saving people, and if that means getting his butt kicked because he won't kill Batman, then Superman wins the ideological battle and comes out the better hero.

I get that one because people are tired of childish Batman fans misinterpreting things and jerking off over "OH BUT HE PUNCHED SO AND SO IN THE FACE HE'S A BETTER HERO". I say this AS a Batman fan. It's not so much people saying Batman can beat other people in fights, I'm just tired of seeing one of my favorite characters being written as a dick who's constantly treating his friends like trash and trying to "one up" them. It doesn't make him fun to read about in those kinds of interpretations, and I hate other people only valuing Batman because he wears a dark outfit and occasionally "beats up" other superheroes in their mind. They never talk about him adopting people or the good he does for the city giving people jobs and helping those in need. The kind of casual fans that call Robin "gay" and stuff like that. Even though those people cover their ears and scream when you mention him getting punched out by Hal Jordan or choked by Aquaman.

Of course I ignore that stuff 99% of the time but after hearing it for all 20 years of your life it gets irritating. That's why I say I understand people's fears over it.

Either way, the leak that we've all been discussing has the fight end on an even footing.

Remember - all the scenes we've been shown of Clark being messed up, Batman has his full armor on. Guess what we haven't seen in trailers or tv spots? Those leaked images of an absolutely wrecked Bruce in his mangled armor.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

Isn't it for the best, though? I don't want a Superman who would fight another man -- even to the death -- just because of a difference of opinion when it comes to crime fighting or because he thinks Batman is too hard on the criminal element. I think this is meant to be a direct challenge and parallel to the fight with Zod in that Superman would want to avoid engaging in a potentially collateral damage creating brawl that could, in this case, legitimately hurt a mortal man.

Lex only gets his "fight night" because he uses Superman's humanity against him -- the exact thing that Batman and the public fears Superman lacks. The only way that Superman will even put up a fight that could potentially kill Batman is because he has people he loves at stake; otherwise, he would hold back due to his own moral imperative. I like that, and it works a lot better than fighting over ideologies, since you can't kill ideas with violence.

A fight wouldn't change either of their perspectives, and Superman would only prove Batman right if Superman willingly fought him to the death just because he didn't approve of the way Batman dealt with crime in Gotham or he didn't like that Batman disapproved of him. He would be proving to Batman that he's a god who would get his way by force. Superman only fighting because he's being pressured to do so for reasons that are appealing to his heart and his humanity allows for Superman to do what a ideologically motivated fight wouldn't, which is to ultimately move Batman to see Superman's humanity and vulnerability. It allows them to transcend their differences in a way that sets them more effectively on the path to bond as teammates and friends. A mere fight because of a difference of opinion wouldn't have accomplished that, I don't think.

I just think it's lazy writing. And if Superman doesn't say something to Batman about his mother being kidnapped which is forcing him to fight then it'll be that much worse to me...especially knowing Superman plows Batman through a building and tosses him like a sack of garbage through the floodlight. If he wanted to avoid hurting a mortal man that's not the way to go about it lol.

I would rather have Batman be the unhinged "villain" and be so desperate to kill Superman that he would do something drastic like kidnap Lois to draw Superman in.

 

[TX85]

"If I wanted it, you'd be dead already", Batman is my guy but he didn't win **** clean/fair against Supes so yeah whatever

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

I get that one because people are tired of childish Batman fans misinterpreting things and jerking off over "OH BUT HE PUNCHED SO AND SO IN THE FACE HE'S A BETTER HERO".

Even though those people cover their ears and scream when you mention him getting punched out by Hal Jordan or choked by Aquaman.

Either way, the leak that we've all been discussing has the fight end on an even footing.

Remember - all the scenes we've been shown of Clark being messed up, Batman has his full armor on. Guess what we haven't seen in trailers or tv spots? Those leaked images of an absolutely wrecked Bruce in his mangled armor.

Very true about the fight ending on even footing. That should at least convey the message about both heroes being good to both fanbases.

Also, you have no idea how many people I've encountered telling me I'm dumb for liking Superman more than Batman. I always go into detail explaining why he's interesting from a philosophical or theological point of view, why he's a better hero in my opinion, and every time I get shutdown with, "But he's boring."

Then I always go , haven't you been listening to anything I was saying?

 

[GENERAL RAAM582]

Inb4 Pale wrote BvS better than Terrio.

 

[Xiewin]

Wait Batman wins the fight?

Great, now this movie is practically dead to me. This is exactly what I was afraid of, superman's character suffering at the expense of Batman....Again.

 

[InspecktahDeck]

I just think it's lazy writing. And if Superman doesn't say something to Batman about his mother being kidnapped which is forcing him to fight then it'll be that much worse to me...especially knowing Superman plows Batman through a building and tosses him like a sack of garbage through the floodlight. If he wanted to avoid hurting a mortal man that's not the way to go about it lol.

I would rather have Batman be the unhinged "villain" and be so desperate to kill Superman that he would do something drastic like kidnap Lois to draw Superman in.

But then we're just making a totally unlikeable Batman and going too far in the other direction.

Maybe Clark starts the fight while pondering his options of what to do - he's trying to feel his way through things and take it easy on Bruce hoping he can hold back and ko him. Of course, being Superman he uses kid gloves.

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

I just think it's lazy writing. And if Superman doesn't say something to Batman about his mother being kidnapped which is forcing him to fight then it'll be that much worse to me...especially knowing Superman plows Batman through a building and tosses him like a sack of garbage through the floodlight. If he wanted to avoid hurting a mortal man that's not the way to go about it lol.

I would rather have Batman be the unhinged "villain" and be so desperate to kill Superman that he would do something drastic like kidnap Lois to draw Superman in.

PaleMonster said in a PM to me that Superman goes to Batman and tries to enlist his help in saving Martha, but Batman won't have any of it because he's too blinded by rage.

 

[Rapunzel]

There's many ways to get around Supes not telling Bats about Martha. That doesn't bug me.

 

[TDKR1977]

Wait Batman wins the fight?

Great, now this movie is practically dead to me. This is exactly what I was afraid of, superman's character suffering at the expense of Batman....Again.

He's not going to "lose".

 

[TX85]

So basically we'll see if anybody before tonight's Mexico screenings was bs

 

[Dr doomsday]

If they are, then they have failed. These are not just two heroes, but the main superheroes we wanted onscreen together as equals.

Fans aren't logical especially Superman fans anyone who says this doesn't honor Superman is out of their mind. Saving Lois and stopping a terrorist threat, several brief moments of him pulling off multiple heroic acts. Investigating Batman as Clark Kent, showing his love for his mother, willingly standing trial battling Doomsday and sacrificing his life for a world that rejects him. He dies by fighting his way to a kryptonite spear, fights his way through his pain to kill Doomsday.

How does Batman beating him up negate all this none of this shows Superman being pushed aside for Batman. Whose the movie's entire conflict about, who seems to drive the heart of the movie? Whose rogue gallery is the villain apart of? Whose the climax come down to? Who drives the emotional impact of the end? Superman is done justice, it's his movie, critics and fans are just too stubborn when it comes to Superman if this is true no movie has done Superman more justice.

 

[RF20Lennon]

Wait Batman wins the fight?

Great, now this movie is practically dead to me. This is exactly what I was afraid of, superman's character suffering at the expense of Batman....Again.

THIS. So tired of the bat-wank honestly.

But at least I hope it makes sense within the story and character. LOL people are so happy to see a working class farmboy who's sole purpose is to save people, get beat up by a fancy billionaire who is riddled with paranoia and cynicism.

 

[Rapunzel]

PaleMonster said in a PM to me that Superman goes to Batman and tries to enlist his help in saving Martha, but Batman won't have any of it because he's too blinded by rage.

But he changes his mind later just cause he hears her name? Okay, now that's silly.

 

[TripleJ]

I think those complaints are kind of crazy.

Superman fans, if they understand the character, should realize he doesn't care about winning as something as petty as a fight with Batman. All Superman cares about is saving people, and if that means getting his butt kicked because he won't kill Batman, then Superman wins the ideological battle and comes out the better hero.

Thank you!

I get why some Superman fans are bothered by this (especially because of some Batman fanboys).

Honestly, those fanboys don't get what Batman is about (Batman isn't about beating up others...or about prep time).

This is an ideological battle, but people too often focus on the wrong aspects - on the physical aspect.

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

But he changes his mind later just cause he hears her name? Okay, now that's silly.

Yeah, it's kinda weird, but we'll see if that's how it goes down. It's highly probable Clark just doesn't get a chance to speak because Bruce acts so hostile.

 

[antoineflemming]

Wait Batman wins the fight?

Great, now this movie is practically dead to me. This is exactly what I was afraid of, superman's character suffering at the expense of Batman....Again.

Of course. He's using Kryptonite. You know what Kryptonite does to Superman. And I think it's pretty clear from pictures and from the recent spoilery EW article that Batman pretty much wins the fight. He clearly gets Superman on his back, with his boot to his neck. But, remember, this is Batman's redemption. It's not that this movie is making Batman right. Batman is clearly in the wrong. So, Batman won't kill Superman.

 

[TDKR1977]

Yeah, it's kinda weird, but we'll see if that's how it goes down. It's highly probable Clark just doesn't get a chance to speak because Bruce acts so hostile.

Just as probable that the dude is stringing people along...