BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 3

[Omegabat]

Shoots a grenade at him that explodes in a green cloud of kryptonite. Supes seems almost nauseated by it and also in some pain. He gathers himself and throws the punch without knowing that he's been severely weakened.

Is Anatoly Knyazev enhanced? does Batman display his prowess against anyone noteworthy?

 

[Will4179]

If you don't see the issue Superman fans have with this, well then I don't know what to say.

Oh, and nice generalizing there, champ.

Long time lurker here, and I have to say that the generalizing bugs me more than Batman's so-called victory over Superman.

That's not to say I don't understand and sympathize with the Superman fans who are pissed about the fight, because I do. But I made my peace with that tired trope a long time ago.

If anything about it bugs me at all, I'd say it's simply the repetition and creative laziness of it. But speaking only for myself, I'm fine with whatever goes down, and that's because over the course of the thirty years since The Dark Knight Returns hit the scene, Superman's had to deal with one variation of it or another being pulled out of the closet, and you know what?

He's still here.

Superman's built to last, regardless of popularity(or lack thereof).

As far as the movie goes, I can't see it until next week, but spoilers don't bother me as they're often subject to interpretation, context and occasionally hyperbole. And everything I've read here tonight tells me the movie's about what I expected it to be.

Never been a fan of Affleck as an actor and nothing I've seen is likely to change that. I could be wrong and he could blow me away, but knowing myself, I doubt it.

I know what I'm getting from the returning Man of Steel cast, so no worries there, which leaves Gadot and Eisenberg as the only question marks for me.

Sorry for the long-winded first post, but I had to put it out there.

 

[TripleJ]

I wish Cavill had dialogue in the court scene.
Missed opportunity.
HOWEVER

Overall, Cavill had better dialogue and more to do in this film. His scenes with Lois were quite well done - especially the bath tub scene.

I haven't watched it - but it does seem like a missed opportunity.

To be fair, I don't think it matters - nothing Kal says can actually change people's minds (in universe).

Of course, I can't say much now, without watching the movie...but I think it's hard to change people's minds through one speech (especially when they might be emotionally invested against Superman).

(Again, I am referring to people within universe).

 

[Dr doomsday]

If you don't see the issue Superman fans have with this, well then I don't know what to say.

Oh, and nice generalizing there, champ.

Your idea would've been to have Superman win and save Batman from Doomsday. Simply put you claim Superman was disregarded for Batman and ignore all facts that support it. You want Batman disregarded for Superman how is that different?

Let's look at the run down first Batman
Intro where he crushes a bunch of criminals before branding one.
Stealing the kryptonite and the batmobile chase that follows
Rescues Martha Kent
And of course his win over Superman

Superman
His saving of Lois from terrorists
His global heroics montage
Taking out the batmobile with one move
And of course his sacrifice to kill Doomsday

Both got big feats and about the same amount each has a moment in the nightmare, they're balanced each given their moments but if superman carried the climax with his sacrifice which everyone would be talking about Batman needed a truly worth while moment too, so the fight is his big moment. This isn't favoring Batman as usual Superman fans are the problem, you want disregard everyone else just for Superman you want to push Batman aside just for Superman then accuse the movie of doing that with Batman it's hypocritical, seriously Superman fans are the problem not all of them but some of them.

 

[spreedom]

Yeah not a fan of Batman killing at all,the no kill rule is a defining aspect of the character. Sure it's been violated by Nolan and Burton but neither of them tried to sell their versions as being as close to the source material as possible to even begin with. No posting scans from the 40's isn't going to change anything either,the 40's comics are not going to erase all the decades of material people have digested.
I can live with it but it's going to create controversy and rather unnecessary controversy that may end up hurting the movie,it could have been avoided. We all want this movie to do well but there's a difference between taking a risk and poking a sleeping Lion in the eye. More importantly Batman killing doesn't seem like an actual issue or plot point,just something driven to make action scenes look cooler which circles back to criticism against Snyder over his fondness for flair over substance.
It's unlikely Batman killing will ever be addressed in a potential solo movie(that would have been gutsy),we know that the likes of Croc,Joker,Harley,Deadshot are alive. It'll just be overlooked as "Snyder action porn",you can bet on it so it's not gutsy in the slightest. Still looking forward to the movie though.

Did Batman fight someone impressive? excluding Superman ofcourse.

Having seen the movie, I agree with the opening paragraph. It doesn't ruin the character or the movie to me but as a longtime fan I always expect "no killing" to be a defining character trait. I will say nothing appears on-screen as sadistic and Bats doesn't seem to take pleasure in pancaking guys in cars or blowing them up... I just feel like the comics often go out of their way to show that the tactics were non-lethal. Just speaks to the fact that movies and comics are different media and it can be challenging to tell the same story in both.

And Bats' only real action scenes are against Supes and the warehouse. To me, it wasn't made totally clear that KGBeast is indeed in the movie. Others might have caught something I missed though.

 

[Herolee10]

For those that have seen it, would you guys say that the Superman you saw in BvS would be capable of at least being a Co-Leader or serving as a Leader-type of a role in JL when he returns?

 

[ManWithNoName18]

One last one...

How does Batman use kryptonite against Superman? Judging by Superman's face in the trailer he is unaware he is under the effects of kryptonite when Batman blocks the punch?

Shoots pellet Supes easily catches it, but it explodes into kryptonite, then he realizes it can weaken him when batman blocks his punch.

 

[vantheman77]

Your idea would've been to have Superman win and save Batman from Doomsday. Simply put you claim Superman was disregarded for Batman and ignore all facts that support it. You want Batman disregarded for Superman how is that different?

Let's look at the run down first Batman
Intro where he crushes a bunch of criminals before branding one.
Stealing the kryptonite and the batmobile chase that follows
Rescues Martha Kent
And of course his win over Superman

Superman
His saving of Lois from terrorists
His global heroics montage
Taking out the batmobile with one move
And of course his sacrifice to kill Doomsday

Both got big feats and about the same amount each has a moment in the nightmare, they're balanced each given their moments but if superman carried the climax with his sacrifice which everyone would be talking about Batman needed a truly worth while moment too, so the fight is his big moment. This isn't favoring Batman as usual Superman fans are the problem, you want disregard everyone else just for Superman you want to push Batman aside just for Superman then accuse the movie of doing that with Batman it's hypocritical, seriously Superman fans are the problem not all of them but some of them.

Doesn't stop Superman fans from not being happy about Superman being defeated by Batman. If you think Superman fans are going to be happy with him being defeated by Batman, think again.

 

[Omegabat]

Having seen the movie, I agree with the opening paragraph. It doesn't ruin the character or the movie to me but as a longtime fan I always expect "no killing" to be a defining character trait. I will say nothing appears on-screen as sadistic and Bats doesn't seem to take pleasure in pancaking guys in cars or blowing them up... I just feel like the comics often go out of their way to show that the tactics were non-lethal. Just speaks to the fact that movies and comics are different media and it can be challenging to tell the same story in both.

And Bats' only real action scenes are against Supes and the warehouse. To me, it wasn't made totally clear that KGBeast is indeed in the movie. Others might have caught something I missed though.

Yeah,I have no problem if the circumstances build themselves up for a potential Batman kills moment(like in Begins and TDK) or if it's left ambiguous. There will be casualties in war and because as you said movies are not comics but Batman killing just for the sake of looking "cool" is not going to go well with many fans and critics even.
Overall I dont believe him killing will ever become an actual plot point,otherwise they'll have to change the narrative and dynamics of Batman/Joker,Batman/Al Ghuls,Batman/Jason,Batman/Damian,Batman/any other vigilante or anti-Batman type. You can bet some of these characters will show up later on.

Thanks for the Beast update,bit disappointed he was just a thug.

 

[rescrunch]

With everyone mostly arguing over who's actually WINNING (aka getting better treatment) I say from other point of view, WB's marketing won. They managed to sell the #WhoWillWin part to the core.

 

[Herolee10]

Honestly, I think Superman fans will end up feeling a bit pacified if Superman ends up having a prominent role in JL.

 

[Markdavid90]

How does the main fight end? I've heard a kryptonite spear is used and Superman submits to Batman to avoid killing him?

 

[AdamJensen]

Zack really loves destroying Metropolis.

 

[roach]

I did like that Joe Morton played Silas Stone....he also played Miles Dyson in T2...another expert in cybernetics

 

[matt47]

I need this movie now!!!!

 

[AdamJensen]

I did like that Joe Morton played Silas Stone....he also played Miles Dyson in T2...another expert in cybernetics

Yes that was great, first thing that popped into mind was Papa Pope is in the film!

 

[Dr doomsday]

Doesn't stop Superman fans from not being happy about Superman being defeated by Batman. If you think Superman fans are going to be happy with him being defeated by Batman, think again.

Maybe but you don't have a valid point how is Superman beating Batman any better. You have nothing he loses because he's unwilling to give it his all. Superman is the one we side with, Batman comes off in the wrong. Superman's ideals win. You have nothing to be mad about, nothing you can't actually give a reason this is bad treatment of the character, Superman winning the fight and killing Doomsday would be clearly biased to him. Stop complaining you have no reason to be mad, none.

 

[JaD]

How does the main fight end? I've heard a kryptonite spear is used and Superman submits to Batman to avoid killing him?

Just got back from my screening

Supes is basically defeated and Bats is about to impale him with the spear and Supes says something about "saving Martha" referring to his kidnapped mom (that Lex orchestrated to blackmail him into fighting Batman) and Bats is taken back to images of his own mother's death.

Batman is frustrated trying to understand why he's saying the name of his mother and Lois comes in and tells him that's the name of Superman's mom. So he stops what he's doing and agrees to help Superman.

 

[matt47]

Does the Bruce/Diana scene where they talk about the JL feel...cheesy at all?

 

[Herolee10]

That's probably the only thing that I don't think I'll ever get over. On how one sided the fight seems to be.

 

[vantheman77]

Maybe but you don't have a valid point how is Superman beating Batman any better. You have nothing he loses because he's unwilling to give it his all. Superman is the one we side with, Batman comes off in the wrong. Superman's ideals win. You have nothing to be mad about, nothing you can't actually give a reason this is bad treatment of the character, Superman winning the fight and killing Doomsday would be clearly biased to him. Stop complaining you have no reason to be mad, none.

It's not the Doomsday fight I'm concerned about. It's not about Superman winning either. The fight should have been ended in a draw. Unfortunately whatever the reason, he still lost and it came across as mostly one-sided. Superman fans would still not be happy regardless.

 

[marieylee]

Just got back from my screening

Supes is basically defeated and Bats is about to impale him with the spear and Supes says something about "saving Martha" referring to his kidnapped mom (that Lex orchestrated to blackmail him into fighting Batman) and Bats is taken back to images of his own mother's death.

Batman is frustrated trying to understand why he's saying the name of his mother and Lois comes in and tells him that's the name of Superman's mom. So he stops what he's doing and agrees to help Superman.

How was it executed in your opinion? For me, reading, it sounds ridiculous.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

It's not the Doomsday fight I'm concerned about. It's not about Superman winning either. The fight should have been ended in a draw. Unfortunately whatever the reason, he still lost and it came across as mostly one-sided. Superman fans would still not be happy regardless.

You should stop acting like you speak for all superman fans.

This is just your very whiney opinion.

 

[Dr doomsday]

It's not the Doomsday fight I'm concerned about. Unfortunately whatever the reason, he still lost and it was one-sided. Superman fans would still not be happy regardless.

WHY!? Superman is the one we sympathize with, his ideals win. Superman wins the battle that matters. Everything that actually matters to his character is honored why does the dignity of his character hinge on if he beats Batman and not if his morals remain. All those fans are disregarding what matters most about Superman all because he doesn't win a fight, now that is disgracing the character far more than anything this movie does.

 

[Markdavid90]

Also...

Is Lex aware Batman has kryptonite?

Does Lex actually tell Supes he has to fight Batman?

Does Lex say if Superman or Batman are both alive by the end of the fight Matha will die?