BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 4

[Rapunzel]

I have two theories.
The nightmares are caused by Darkseid. I think I seem to recall in Final Crisis he gave people nightmares.
the other theory I have is that it was caused by The Flash traveling back in time to top the Mad Bats time line from coming true...like a temporal echo on Bruce's subconscious

Do you think the visions are connected to Martha's possible death, or something else? In other words, is this connected to the events of the film? Or a JL tease? If it's a JL tease, I'm scared it means INJUSTICE style Supes. This would be about the only thing that kills this franchise for me.

 

[G'c]

Yeah, but he was completely fine moments after being hit by the nuke. Just chilling out in the sun's rays and he goes from a shallow husk (obviously dead) to perfectly fine. Then at the end, while holding the kryptonite spear, he is killed by Doomsday. The massive chunk of Kryptonite drained all his powers, and so he couldn't recover from Doomsday's impaling. Once again, he was obviously dead. They wouldn't have buried him if he was just unconscious. But then at the end of the movie, presumably a couple days later, we see that he's coming back.

So I'm not entirely convinced that being impaled by Kryptonite would have outright killed him. Obviously it killing him is the narrative they were going for during the fight, and it's probably also what Snyder had intended to be true, but I could also see it going the other way.

Maybe I'm just overthinking it. Or my Superman fanboyness is getting the better of me.

I think your analysis is actually right. Again, I am not a Supes fan so I have no bias against whether or not certain powers should've/shouldn't have killed him.

The one reason I think that the kryptonite spear alone won't kill him is because of the knightmare scene alone, which is supposedly an alternate reality if batman does got over his head, didn't save martha, and impales Supes with the kryptonite spear. So if things occur according to the alternate version, we can assume (from the events laid out in the knightmare scene) that Supes would have been stabbed with the kryptonite spear, meaning Bats would not have a chance to know that Martha is in danger, and thus failed to save her. The spear might have caused some great damage to Supes if he was stabbed by it, but surely he would've recovered sometime down the road (if again, according to the alternate timeline where bats did indeed stab supes) in time to be the tyrant superman.

Just my two cents.

 

[haephestus]

I'm still not entirely sure what those were. Were they straight up nightmares? Or something more?

I think The Flash was somehow sharing the vision of The Flash's alternate, dystopian future with Batman. Maybe with the assistance of a Justice Leaguer with mental powers, like Martian Manhunter?

It seemed pretty clear that in the alternate reality, Lois Lane (or maybe Martha Kent, but I think it was Lois Lane) had been killed and Superman held Batman and/or the world in general responsible for that death. So, Superman was ripe for corruption when Darkseid appeared and agreed to help Darkseid conquer Earth. Batman, The Flash and potentially others formed a resistance, along with plenty of humans, but they couldn't defeat Superman. As a last ditch effort, The Flash travelled back in time to warn Batman.

All IMHO.

 

[roach]

Do you think the visions are connected to Martha's possible death, or something else? In other words, is this connected to the events of the film? Or a JL tease? If it's a JL tease, I'm scared it means INJUSTICE style Supes. This would be about the only thing that kills this franchise for me.

It could have been. I don't think we'll see an Injustice style Superman

 

[G'c]

Do you think the visions are connected to Martha's possible death, or something else? In other words, is this connected to the events of the film? Or a JL tease? If it's a JL tease, I'm scared it means INJUSTICE style Supes. This would be about the only thing that kills this franchise for me.

I think the visions are definitely connected to Martha's possible death (if batman did stab Superman in his fight). This is not a JL tease at all I think. This just shows what happens if Batman went overboard thus causing a complete change of events and how that changes Superman completely (ie. given hope on mankind).

 

[Lone]

It was probably Lois who died in that alternate future. I think that future was averted though. Batman and Superman were on friendly terms before he died. I don't see the Superman in BvS becoming knightmare Superman.

 

[haephestus]

Do you think the visions are connected to Martha's possible death, or something else? In other words, is this connected to the events of the film? Or a JL tease? If it's a JL tease, I'm scared it means INJUSTICE style Supes. This would be about the only thing that kills this franchise for me.

I'm hopeful that the events of DoJ circumvented the exact dystopian future we saw. But, perhaps The Flash solo movie will document that alternate reality?

For Justice League, the big hint is that Darkseid will be the villain. At least based on the vision. I'm personally hoping that when Superman returns, he's a much ... lighter, happier and self-confident version of Superman.

I don't think they would kill Superman off, just to revive him, then kill off Lois Lane so that they can turn Superman into a tyrant. I could be wrong, if Man of Steel and DoJ are meant to be about Clark's journey to become Superman as we know him from the comic books, then it would be odd to go in another direction entirely.

I'm not sure how the alternate future ties directly into the events of DoJ. If things had gone down differently, then I guess Martha would have died. Batman would have stabbed Superman with the kryptonite spear. Doomsday would have been released, but maybe Wonder Woman fought and killed Doomsday. Maybe Lois Lane was killed in the battle. Superman returns to life, is peeved that everyone close to him is dead and thus becomes a tyrant? That seems a little clunky to me. So, I'm not sure there is a direct connection between DoJ and the alternate future.

 

[Rapunzel]

I think the visions are definitely connected to Martha's possible death (if batman did stab Superman in his fight). This is not a JL tease at all I think. This just shows what happens if Batman went overboard thus causing a complete change of events and how that changes Superman completely (ie. given hope on mankind).

The 1% chance Bruce was talking about? Makes sense and it's what I'm hoping. But the fact peeps are confused is bad. Hopefully, there's more in the Ultimate Edition to clarify.

 

[matt47]

"Bruce, listen to me now. It's Lois, Lois Lane. She's the key. Am I too soon? too soon. You were right about him. You have always been right about him. Fear him."

Then I can't make it out. Almost like he says, "Find us ____ , you have to find us (or out)"?

 

[matt47]

But yeah, I really wonder how Stone got the box?

 

[Lone]

In case anyone was wondering, Superman smiles. Once during the day of the dead rescue and once during his final goodbye to Lois. He had an S-curl going on in that scene too.

Why doesn't he smile more? Would you be all smiles if all you wanted to do was help and all you got in return was flak for it?

 

[roach]

In case anyone was wondering, Superman smiles. Once during the day of the dead rescue and once during his final goodbye to Lois. He had an S-curl going on in that scene too.

Why doesn't he smile more? Would you be all smiles if all you wanted to do was help and all you got in return was flak for it?

Would you smile if you were sanding in a room that exploded and you witnessed humans being burned alive and you could do nothing to save the?

 

[Lone]

Would you smile if you were sanding in a room that exploded and you witnessed humans being burned alive and you could do nothing to save the?

My post and yours should sufficiently answer those "why doesn't Superman smile???" questions I hope.

 

[vantheman77]

First off because Reeve was Superman. The sameway that Robert Downey Jr. has embodied himself with Tony Stark/Iron Man, Reeve embodied Superman.

Second of all, Reeve was a great actor. He was best known for Superman, but he was a Juliard graduate and a stage trained actor, and he did a ton of great stage productions and movies in addition to Superman.

Superman: The Movie is revered because it was the first big budget full fledged comic book movie that still holds up on its own today. Sure it's a bit campy but it's a great film and the cinematography is incredible. That movie had a ton going on as well, but it held up because of the chemistry with Reeve and Kidder.

When comic book movies reach their definitive point, does that affect subsequent or future comic book movies with comparisons?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

flash scene leaked online

 

[haephestus]

But yeah, I really wonder how Stone got the box?

No idea. I guess we'll find out how STAR Labs got the Mother Box in Cyborg's solo movie. Or has changed to a Teen Titans movie? Or was it never on the cards?

If I had to hazard a guess, it would either be an artefact from an earlier scouting mission of Earth by Darkseid's forces or maybe STAR Labs were working on some kind of portal / dimension technology and came across the Mother Box in that way?

 

[G'c]

The 1% chance Bruce was talking about? Makes sense and it's what I'm hoping. But the fact peeps are confused is bad. Hopefully, there's more in the Ultimate Edition to clarify.

Yes but I personally can't blame that peeps are confused. It does take some thinking and logical deduction to reach these conclusions. I think the editing is the problem (again, this is a personal opinion).

I think it should be remembered that general audiences wants to go into the cinema being entertained. By that I do not mean that they need to be brainless entertainment, but people will need to have some "hook" to be engaged and invested in scenes to follow the story. Sorry got a bit off tangent here but I thought the film could've been executed way better.

 

[InspecktahDeck]

"Bruce, listen to me now. It's Lois, Lois Lane. She's the key. Am I too soon? too soon. You were right about him. You have always been right about him. Fear him."

Then I can't make it out. Almost like he says, "Find us ____ , you have to find us (or out)"?

I'm surprised more people aren't jumping on this hammy dialogue, or any of Eisenberg's. Of all the things to complain about with films, I feel like this is one of the more apparent ones.

 

[Rapunzel]

In case anyone was wondering, Superman smiles. Once during the day of the dead rescue and once during his final goodbye to Lois. He had an S-curl going on in that scene too.

Why doesn't he smile more? Would you be all smiles if all you wanted to do was help and all you got in return was flak for it?

This is what some folks aren't getting about Snyder's Superman...he himself isn't mopey or moorose. He's just in a world that's lost all hope and he's trying to figure our how he can inspire. And even if he still can inspire. The verdict he comes to is that "men are still good" and thus he dies for them. It's not superman that is dark. It's the world. He hasn't joined them in the sun yet. That's because it's only the "dawn". The sun won't come out till he comes back. It's such a Christ parallel, and his story was dark too-- till his resurrection.

Is it the story I'd write? Nope. Is it the best story for the GA? Probably not. But I see Snyder's plan. And it's there to set up what will probably be an amazing Supes.

 

[marieylee]

It seems that Wonder Woman was holding her own against Doomsday correct? Any reason why she couldn't have killed Doomsday with the weapon since from what I've been reading it was the Kryptonite that also killed Supe.

 

[roach]

It seems that Wonder Woman was holding her own against Doomsday correct? Any reason why she couldn't have killed Doomsday with the weapon since from what I've been reading it was the Kryptonite that also killed Supe.

The way the scene played out...Batman shot Doomsday with a kryptonite grenade that weakening him....WW then tied him up with the lasso and was keeping him immobile while Superman flew in with the spear

 

[Jekecy]

My post and yours should sufficiently answer those "why doesn't Superman smile???" questions I hope.

The problem is more so at how the plot and scenarios are constructed in a way which keeps Clark/Superman in a perpetual state of somberness, confusion, and anger. There's very little in the way of letting him just "be", and I can see why that's troublesome for many.

It's all appropriate for the story, so I don't mind as much. I do sympathize with the hardcore Superman fans on this though.

 

[haephestus]

It seems that Wonder Woman was holding her own against Doomsday correct? Any reason why she couldn't have killed Doomsday with the weapon since from what I've been reading it was the Kryptonite that also killed Supe.

Wonder Woman didn't know that the kryptonite spear existed. At no point did the trinity discuss and form a battle plan. They all just kind of leaped into battle before coming together at the very end by pure luck. Batman had a plan, but I don't think he had a chance to share it with Superman.

From memory, Superman only remembered the spear when he rescued Lois Lane who was inexplicably retrieving the spear after she had previously disposed of it. Somehow, Lois telepathically knew that Lex had created a kryptonian monster and that the kryptonite spear would be required to kill it.

It's possible that Wonder Woman could have cut Doomsday's head off with her (magical?) sword, but it may have grown back. That's probably what she was aiming to do before she lost her sword. After that, she was just trying to restrain Doomsday to allow Superman and Batman a chance to do some damage.

If they were more of a team, then logically Wonder Woman would have asked Superman to hold the lasso while she used the kryptonite to kill Doomsday. But, Superman and Wonder Woman barely exchanged two words and Clark and Diana didn't interact at all. So, I guess it was too early for planned teamwork.

 

[TheAQU4M4N]

So does Doomsday end up looking like his comic book design at the end or does he stay looking like a Ninja turtle?

 

[TWayneP]

So does Doomsday end up looking like his comic book design at the end or does he stay looking like a Ninja turtle?

What ya see in the trailer is the best you get.