BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 4

[sf2]

I don't think we'll be seeing one for a loooooonnnnngggg time. If anyone suffered most from the film, it was Superman.

that saddens me. and henry cavill knows it.

whoever took the bet with me... I told you there is no solo superman movie in the next 3 years!!!

 

[Mrtwotone]

Question perhaps I missed it but at what point did Batman and Superman figure out each others identities? I know Clark overheard Batman and Alfred talking at Lex's event but never anything that really pointed to him being Batman.

I was kinda wondering the same thing.

Also the scene with lex on the helipad. How did he know Clarks identity? And it seemed he knew who batman was also. I'm trying to piece things together. Just got home from seeing it in imax 3d

 

[JeetKuneDo]

The death isn't what's important. It was the fact that to Superman, he doesn't know that he won't stay dead. So what he did, that was the last stand in his mind. He made the ultimate sacrifice. So it's not about what his death means to the audience, so much as what the sacrifice means for the character and the characters in the film. It was Superman showing that this was indeed his world and that he was all in.

So I guess we don't have to hear complaints about Coulson in Avengers and other Marvel characters any more now that we've had Batman (TDKR) and Superman (BvS) die and come back to life.

Maybe now everyone will realize that's just how it works in comic books?

Meh, Supes said he didn't kill anyone. So, suspension of disbelief tells me the warlord survived. I just assumed he maneuvered himself to take the force of hitting the wall. Or punched his way through.

Sounds right to me. Wouldn't be that difficult for Supes.

 

[Andreth]

It almost seemed like the world knew he was Superman now, after all the people that lined up at the Kent farm. Yeah, I don't know whether we will ever get a Clark at the Daily planet scenario anymore, and that really irks me.

They were having a funeral for Superman in another city, and Clark Kent was being buried at his home, those people were there for Clark Kent and Clark Kent alone

Remember when Perry looks at the newspaper? They have an article saying that Clark Kent died covering the doomsday fight.
Nobody knew he was superman. He can return.

 

[Reel-Man]

Some figures were leaked a few months ago, which spoiled that revelation anyway.

I avoided all spoilers or anything close to it like the plague. Now that I've seen it, I can finally come in here.

 

[DerekLake]

The death isn't what's important. It was the fact that to Superman, he doesn't know that he won't stay dead. So what he did, that was the last stand in his mind. He made the ultimate sacrifice. So it's not about what his death means to the audience, so much as what the sacrifice means for the character and the characters in the film. It was Superman showing that this was indeed his world and that he was all in.

My problem is that there wasn't a clear enough arc for that death to really feel justified, not for Superman to make and not for Metropolis to mourn. Did he even do much of anything in Metropolis? We don't know. What do they feel about him? We don't know. Is he anything more to them than the alien who stopped yet another alien killer? We don't know.

So much of this film felt undeveloped, as though there was a great film somewhere under the surface that explored both Batman and Superman deeply through their conflict with each other and their own relations to their cities and the world. But that film doesn't shine through.

 

[redhawk23]

I just figured he used his x-ray vision. Would have been nice to actually see that though.

Haha wow. You know I've never actually thought about that before. Not just in the context of this film but just in general.

 

[InJustice]

So I guess we don't have to hear complaints about Coulson in Avengers and other Marvel characters any more now that we've had Batman (TDKR) and Superman (BvS) die and come back to life.

Maybe now everyone will realize that's just how it works in comic books?

I wouldn't lump Batman there. At least it was part of the larger narrative, where Bruce Wayne let go of the Batman persona for a chance at a healthy and normal life. Plus, it was foreshadowed long ago that he wasn't going to be dead.

That's much more different from Marvel where they treat deaths as if they're just minor illness status in RPGs. Superman, though, yes, that Doomsday **** can **** right off.

 

[redhawk23]

So I guess we don't have to hear complaints about Coulson in Avengers and other Marvel characters any more now that we've had Batman (TDKR) and Superman (BvS) die and come back to life.

Maybe now everyone will realize that's just how it works in comic books?


Sounds right to me. Wouldn't be that difficult for Supes.

It is the absolute worst aspect of comic books and it is a shame to see it carried over. With comics you're talking about series that go on for hundreds of issues with a floating time line. With these film series they go on a decade or so at most. They tend to be closed continuities. They can let characters have endings because it will just start up again in a few years.

 

[antoineflemming]

They were having a funeral for Superman in another city, and Clark Kent was being buried at his home, those people were there for Clark Kent and Clark Kent alone

Remember when Perry looks at the newspaper? They have an article saying that Clark Kent died covering the doomsday fight.
Nobody knew he was superman. He can return.

Yeah, Superman can return. But Clark Kent cannot.

 

[misslane38]

I've now seen the movie, but I was hoping for some clarification. So far, I've seen a few people on Twitter bash Lois for being annoying and useless. I can't speak to what people find annoying, but in terms of being useless is that criticism fair?

Her investigation served the narrative function of revealing a conspiracy against Superman and perhaps even more. If I recall correctly, when Lois is face to face with Lex toward the end she even tells him that she's proven what he did. I suppose since it's not stated explicitly she may not deserve the credit, but is it wrong to assume that her work helped to put Lex Luthor in prison?

She also helped to explain the Martha thing to Bruce as well as assisted with the kryptonite spear. I get that she still needed rescuing because of her efforts with the spear, but no one else was going after it and she was the one who knew where it was. I've seen some even criticize her for disposing of it earlier only to have to go after it later, which I don't understand. When she got rid of it, she didn't know about Doomsday, if I'm not mistaken. So she tried to dispose of it so that it wouldn't hurt Clark again. Then, when she realized there was a Kryptonian monster on the loose, she went after it. She also was able to help a weakened Superman emerge from the water after he went after it.

I know it's not a whole lot, so I can understand some frustration. However, it's just odd to me to see some dismiss all of her time in the movie as useless.

 

[BVS2016]

I wonder what happened to the "it's time you learn what it means to be a man" line. Hopefully it will be in the ultimate cut. Was really looking forward to seeing how it would be executed

 

[Reel-Man]

What was Jena Malone's role?

 

[Kobra]

I wonder what happened to the "it's time you learn what it means to be a man" line. Hopefully it will be in the ultimate cut. Was really looking forward to seeing how it would be executed

Also, in the trailer Bruce says "I'm getting slow in my old days" but in the movie he says "you're getting slow in your old days"

 

[JaD]

What was Jena Malone's role?

She was cut from the film, I don't have many guesses about where she would have fit. I don't see why they don't just go ahead and tell us since it's not in the movie anyways.

 

[Supermanila]

I was kinda wondering the same thing.

Also the scene with lex on the helipad. How did he know Clarks identity? And it seemed he knew who batman was also. I'm trying to piece things together. Just got home from seeing it in imax 3d

Hopefully the extended version can shed more light on this. It would've been better if Superman xray Batman during their first meet up on top of the crashed batmobile, a simple xray scene and Superman saying "Bruce Wayne, hmm, the next time they shine your light in the sky..."

It would've been better too to find out how Lex outsmarted both characters and how he found out about their identities, would've been great to see the genius of lex in action.

 

[Supermanila]

My problem is that there wasn't a clear enough arc for that death to really feel justified, not for Superman to make and not for Metropolis to mourn. Did he even do much of anything in Metropolis? We don't know. What do they feel about him? We don't know. Is he anything more to them than the alien who stopped yet another alien killer? We don't know.

So much of this film felt undeveloped, as though there was a great film somewhere under the surface that explored both Batman and Superman deeply through their conflict with each other and their own relations to their cities and the world. But that film doesn't shine through.

Did they even show the world mourning the loss of Superman? Can't remember, I remember military salute and gunfires, etc...but would've been nice to see the world saddened by his loss, he gave his life to kill doomsday and it would've been a good closure to the question of "do we need a superman" after the metropolis incident and whether he is a threat to humanity or its savior.

 

[Kobra]

People will indeed find every little thing they can to complain. It happens with Batman and Superman. Not so much with other heroes.

 

[MrsKent26]

People will indeed find every little thing they can to complain. It happens with Batman and Superman. Not so much with other heroes.

It's because they are the greatest and therefore judged by that standard.

 

[redhawk23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0ZD6Wmu2L8

In this interview Zach Snyder is openly dismissive of Superman more or less admitting that he agrees Superman is traditionally boring. His attempted remedy is to show how much of a disaster being a "Boy Scout" all the time would be.

This is just such a crappy read on the character and I don't really understand why he ever agreed to take on the character.

As the MCU's iteration of Captain America shows a character can be "decent" on a very basic intrinsic level without being "boring." The way such a character contrasts with everyone else is a source of conflict and further depth. Superman doesn't really contrast with anyone else. He mostly acts selfishly and is encouraged to do so.

I really do just find this whole approach to be vile.

 

[redhawk23]

People will indeed find every little thing they can to complain. It happens with Batman and Superman. Not so much with other heroes.

You may have missed the entire internet *****ing out Joss Whedon for a single Black Widow line.

 

[Andreth]

Did they even show the world mourning the loss of Superman? Can't remember, I remember military salute and gunfires, etc...but would've been nice to see the world saddened by his loss, he gave his life to kill doomsday and it would've been a good closure to the question of "do we need a superman" after the metropolis incident and whether he is a threat to humanity or its savior.

Yes they showed people mourning. There's a crowd holding candles and stuff. Even a policeman is bawling. And they wrote an inspirational message next to his shield.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

How many people did Batman kill? By my count about 6.

And this is the most obsessed with firearms I've ever seen Batman.

 

[Supermanila]

Yes they showed people mourning. There's a crowd holding candles and stuff. Even a policeman is bawling. And they wrote an inspirational message next to his shield.

ah that's nice, can't remember, but im seeing it again tomorrow

 

[Tvar10]

It was definitely better than I thought it would be. Definitely didn't deserve such harsh reviews. Ben killed it as batman. Literally. Which is my only problem. Superman was a wuss which sucked. One thing that bothered me is how many slow motion superman shots can be in one movie??