BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 4

[Chip Chipperson]

at least we can now confirm that the best character in the DCU is in the movie universe

 

[Bane Cook]

Immediate thoughts after I come back from the theater... LOL wtf did I just watch!

First off Ben Affleck is casting of the century. Holy **** he was good. And all his scenes alone justify the price of admission. The way he dwarfs everyone else is amazing. Just like Batman should be. Then you have him merking dudes left and right. I've never been prouder of you, Bats. He is just flat out terrifying. The R-rated version cannot come soon enough. I cannot get the smile off my face from this Batman.

That being said the movie is a huge piece of ****. lol But like the best piece of **** you've ever taken. Not because of performances(mostly), but because the editing was terrible and the story makes absolutely no sense. Nothing felt like a natural reaction to anything else. Random stuff is just happening. Granted the stuff that was happening was really good. It just made for an incomprehensible movie. It's like if you go to the most expensive restaurant in the world, order everything on the menu, then put it all in a blender. That's what this movie is.

It's just a hodge podge of random scenes stitched together.

Either this is Snyder in the editing room:

Or the 3 hr rated-R version is the real version and the studio told Snyder, "How about no." Then Snyder had no idea how to condense it and ended up taking out scenes that really threw off the flow of the movie, and made it a little incomprehensible.

I absolutely hated Cave Troll Doomsday.

Wonder Woman was pretty cool but Gal Gadot's acting was just passable. Her solo is going to be rough. Calling it now.

Why was Batman literally trying to kill Clark and saying how he needs to be destroyed for the sake of the human race, then not even 5 mins later say that he was friends with him?

Why did all the Justice League Cameos suck so bad?

EDIT* Actually the Flash scene in the convenience store was really ****ing cool.

Why didn't Wonder Woman throw the spear?

How is Lois always in the right place at the right time? There's no way she's not a super hero. '

Why does Snyder suck so bad at telling stories?


This movie needed to be simpler. A LOT simpler and you could have had one of the best super hero movies of all time. This movie should have been MOS 2/Batman v Superman, not whatever the **** this was. This is PURE studio meddling when the screenplay was being written if I had to guess. They were probably like, "We need to be at Justice League, like yesterday. Make it happen." They are trying to race to the Justice League and going from MOS to Justice League is just too much for one movie. Just imagine if this was a movie dealing with the fallout of Man of Steel, while slowly building up to the Batman vs Superman showdown. I mean with THIS Batman???? That would have been ****ing money.

I already bought tickets a month ago when they went on sale for today and tomorrow so I'll probably see this again tomorrow(it's iffy because idk if I feel like waiting in line). The only reason is Batman pretty much. I NEED to see that again. I did like a lot of stuff in the movie though believe it or not. It's just that none of it should have been in the same movie. It's like they're all pieces of different movies.

I'm apprehensive to say Snyder needs to be canned. Because while he can't tell a comprehensible story to save his life, he did deliver us some of the coolest **** I've seen in a comic book movie. I say keep him on but he needs help. Badly.

 

[smsvmos]

Well guys the viral campaign for this movie is not over. In 3 days 10 hours we are going to get something. I hope is either a Brainiac or Darkseid extended scene

 

[RadioSha]

Just got out. I will have a proper review for this movie tomorrow some time. Right now I'm sitting on a 4.5/10.

Initial reactions.

Cons:

- Zack Snyder wanted to shock you and I wasn't buying it especially with what they did with Martha Kent. The photographs were gratuitous. For some reason that particular thing stood out for me and left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't know. Just distasteful in my opinion.

- The piss jar thing. Actually, Lex Luthor in general was truly unbearable. He had his moments, but they were so few and far between. I'm all for taking chances with characterizations and trying to do something different, but Lex was just so off that I couldn't help but be annoyed every time he's on screen. It could've been a new character for all I care. WHY WOULD YOU TREAT THE MOST CALCULATING, LASER SHARP DEMAGOGUE OF A VILLAIN AS SOMEONE WITH DADDY ISSUES WHO DOES THINGS FOR S***S AND GIGS. Slap on some religious mumbo jumbo too and there you have it. Approaching Lex as a Joker-ish type of character put me off so hard. I miss Goyer's Zod.

- Complimentary to that thought, I wished Batman and Superman talked more and engaged one another. They are so different and have such different experiences and ideologies throughout all media and all popular culture and I just felt that the movie did not exploit the gold mine at all. The conflict could've been presented much more organically, but Lex. Fricken Lex. Such a forced device.

- The first half of this movie was incredibly boring too. My friend and I walking out after the movie and it was the first thing that we talked about. He wanted to leave the theater, but then Bruce's training montage happened and we relaxed. So poorly edited as I mentioned before.

- Terrible dialogue and terrible acting in some places. Not a lot. But I was cringing so hard. For example Superman telling Lois he had to leave to kill/not kill Batman.... as he's floating. Oh my god. What was that? And also just before Batman attempts to Krypto-impale Superman, Superman delivers his line about saving his mom. Jesus.

- Justice League email. Um. Wow. That's where this is going? Clearly, there were better ways to set THAT up without being SO. ON. THE NOSE. Right? Someone explain to me why exactly Lex keeps tabs on meta-humans?

- Intrusive music. I was feeling one moment and the music tells me to feel another thing and I was frustrated every time.

- The movie could've ended 7 scenes ago. Or better yet, STOP INTERCUTTING. Let Lois's mourning play out, then maybe move to Bruce and Diana, and END IT NOW. NO. DON'T GO BACK TO... oh goddamnit. Lex again. Jesus Christ...

Those were just some.

Pros:

- Opening sequence and Superman Clark funeral (good parallel of Birth of Batman and Death of Superman, although like I said, it should've ended in a more linear fashion)

- Everything on the Batman side of things *kisses fingers once again*

- Wonder Woman.

- The action scenes

And... maybe some more.

 

[The Guard]

My problem is that there wasn't a clear enough arc for that death to really feel justified, not for Superman to make and not for Metropolis to mourn. Did he even do much of anything in Metropolis? We don't know. What do they feel about him? We don't know. Is he anything more to them than the alien who stopped yet another alien killer? We don't know.

An arc for the death? His entire character arc in the movie is about him trying to reconcile his personal life with his responsibilities as a hero.

The people put up a giant statue to him. He is talked about as a hero before Luthor's machinations.

There's a whole montage with commentary about how the world feels about him, and having a memorial/remembrance of him speaks volumes.

 

[The Guard]

I really don't understand complaints about this movie being too complex. I really don't.

 

[mathmatik]

I wonder what was left on the cutting room floor. Yeah you can say that the R-Rated cut is for blood, but 30MINS is alot of stuff canned. really hope the whole thing makes 100% on the Directors Cut !

 

[RadioSha]

I feel that Superman's death was justified. One of the better things in the movie actually.

Ugh. "Oh well" about everything else.

 

[antoineflemming]

Well guys the viral campaign for this movie is not over. In 3 days 10 hours we are going to get something. I hope is either a Brainiac or Darkseid extended scene

So, why 3 days 10 hours?

EDIT: NVM. I see. That's the countdown.

 

[The Guard]

I've now seen the movie, but I was hoping for some clarification. So far, I've seen a few people on Twitter bash Lois for being annoying and useless. I can't speak to what people find annoying, but in terms of being useless is that criticism fair?

Not in the least.

Her investigation served the narrative function of revealing a conspiracy against Superman and perhaps even more. If I recall correctly, when Lois is face to face with Lex toward the end she even tells him that she's proven what he did. I suppose since it's not stated explicitly she may not deserve the credit, but is it wrong to assume that her work helped to put Lex Luthor in prison?

Yup. Her investigation is what puts Luthor in prison. She is instrumental, and her subplot dovetails with the main storyline as well .

She also helped to explain the Martha thing to Bruce as well as assisted with the kryptonite spear. I get that she still needed rescuing because of her efforts with the spear, but no one else was going after it and she was the one who knew where it was. I've seen some even criticize her for disposing of it earlier only to have to go after it later, which I don't understand. When she got rid of it, she didn't know about Doomsday, if I'm not mistaken. So she tried to dispose of it so that it wouldn't hurt Clark again. Then, when she realized there was a Kryptonian monster on the loose, she went after it. She also was able to help a weakened Superman emerge from the water after he went after it.

Exactly.

I know it's not a whole lot, so I can understand some frustration. However, it's just odd to me to see some dismiss all of her time in the movie as useless.

It's a ridiculous statement to make.

 

[SiegePerilous]

Just got back from mine. Still a lot to process, but I overall enjoyed it immensely. I'm seeing it again Saturday so that will give me another chance to soak it all in.

To get these out of the way:
- The dream sequence and the Flash cameo were both immensely stupid
- Killing Jimmy Olsen, if that was indeed him, was pointlessly mean spirited. I'm not such a fan of Jimmy that I'm gonna get worked up about it, but still. I choose to interpret that the CIA agent was using a false identity that functioned as a dark humorish mythology gag.
- I loved the connection between the two Marthas, and the way it acted as a wakeup call to Bruce for the way he'd been dehumanizing Clark. But Clark calling his mother "Martha" was...weird. Like, they couldn't think of another way to bring the name up? Everything else about that scene was great, but Jesus.

Otherwise, I generally liked or loved everything else. Eisenberg was too OTT in some scenes, but generally I was won over. Affleck killed it, I can't wait for his solo. Cavill made me feel for him even more than MoS. And though Wonder Woman wasn't necessary for the story, she was a dream come true. I got chills when she showed up in full costume. Good for Gadot, I'm glad she seems to be silencing the haters.

I'm floating somewhere around a 7.5-8/10. I wish the Ultimate cut had been released, as I feel most of the film's flaws may get fixed there.

 

[mathmatik]

Just got back from mine. Still a lot to process, but I overall enjoyed it immensely. I'm seeing it again Saturday so that will give me another chance to soak it all in.

To get these out of the way:
- The dream sequence and the Flash cameo were both immensely stupid
- Killing Jimmy Olsen, if that was indeed him, was pointlessly mean spirited. I'm not such a fan of Jimmy that I'm gonna get worked up about it, but still. I choose to interpret that the CIA agent was using a false identity that functioned as a dark humorish mythology gag.
- I loved the connection between the two Marthas, and the way it acted as a wakeup call to Bruce for the way he'd been dehumanizing Clark. But Clark calling his mother "Martha" was...weird. Like, they couldn't think of another way to bring the name up? Everything else about that scene was great, but Jesus.


Otherwise, I generally liked or loved everything else. Eisenberg was too OTT in some scenes, but generally I was won over. Affleck killed it, I can't wait for his solo. Cavill made me feel for him even more than MoS. And though Wonder Woman wasn't necessary for the story, she was a dream come true. I got chills when she showed up in full costume. Good for Gadot, I'm glad she seems to be silencing the haters.

I'm floating somewhere around a 7.5-8/10. I wish the Ultimate cut had been released, as I feel most of the film's flaws may get fixed there.

Here's Snyder on the Directors Cut :
"“We call it the Ultimate Cut because to me it’s a deeper dive into that world and there are storylines in there that get fleshed out by the longer version… I would say that we didn’t really take out much of the Superman/Batman story because I felt like, you know that’s kind of the movie, but there was some sort of interstitial stuff that surrounds the story, that kind of finishes some of the ideas that we trimmed back, and I think that’s what you get.”

 

[The Guard]

The tumbler crushed lots of people in its day as well. I recall people having this same conversation.

I don't remember him crushing anyone with the Batmobile in this movie.

He landed on the roof of that truck and damaged it, but in the next few shots, the men who were inside it are shown scrambling around alive and well.

 

[WoodyROM]

Just got out. I honestly don't know what I think. There were things I loved, and things I didn't care for at all. Need time to dwell...

 

[misslane38]

It's a ridiculous statement to make.

Thank you. Paradoxically, some of these same people or a different set criticize her for having way too much screentime and being too instrumental in the final battles. It's like she can't win. As a fan of hers, I was frustrated with how many times she needed rescuing, but overall I thought she came across as intelligent and helpful. I also didn't feel like she had a lot of time onscreen. The scenes she had that moved the plot forward were pretty short, if I recall.

 

[Wise]

So the Mother Box was quoted by Stone as being found in 1982.

Is it possible that that's when Mr. Miracle and Big Barda arrived on Earth?

 

[RadioSha]

"LOIS. LOIS IS THE KEY."

Something like that lol

It was a cool little cameo... until he opened his mouth.

 

[Val_Zod]

that saddens me. and henry cavill knows it.

whoever took the bet with me... I told you there is no solo superman movie in the next 3 years!!!

I never thought they would adapt Death Of Superman. That more than The Dark Knight Returns works after Superman has had a long storied history as the world's greatest hero.

 

[Andreth]

"LOIS. LOIS IS THE KEY."

Something like that lol

It was a cool little cameo... until he opened his mouth.

Reminded me of that Smallville episode about the Justice League, Dr. Fate said the same "Lois is the key"

I hope they don't to the Injustice route, Bruce's nightmare was from Injustice. This Superman looks like he's on the edge of a mental breakdown.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I like the part where at the epicenter of Doomsdays energy emission, which destroys entire city blocks of buildings, Batman is completely unharmed because he dove behind a slab of concrete.

 

[The Guard]

Why does anyone think Superman shot a whole bunch of people in Africa?

No one knows what happened except Superman. Word VS Word scenario.

It just looks like when he intervened, a lot of people died. It was a set up.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Sooooo....

Is it just me or was there no reason stated at all for why Luthor did anything of the things he did?

Because I'm pretty sure they just threw him at you and said ''He's Lex Luthor. Of course he did this stuff."

Like where is his character motivation for any of the things he's responsible for in this?

 

[Wise]

Sooooo....

Is it just me or was there no reason stated at all for why Luthor did anything of the things he did?

Because I'm pretty sure they just threw him at you and said ''He's Lex Luthor. Of course he did this stuff."

Like where is his character motivation for any of the things he's responsible for in this?

He was basically a Schumacher villain.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I wouldn't lump Batman there. At least it was part of the larger narrative, where Bruce Wayne let go of the Batman persona for a chance at a healthy and normal life. Plus, it was foreshadowed long ago that he wasn't going to be dead.

That's much more different from Marvel where they treat deaths as if they're just minor illness status in RPGs. Superman, though, yes, that Doomsday **** can **** right off.

I figured it would still be ok for one studio to do it and no ok for the other to do it.

 

[smsvmos]

This is what Zack Snyder had to say about Batman and the killings

Spoiler

I tried to do it in a technical way. There’s a great YouTube video that shows all the kills in the Christopher Nolan movies even though we would perceive them as movies where he doesn’t kill anyone. I think there’s 42 potential kills that Batman does! Also, it goes back and includes even the Tim Burton Batman movies where this reputation as a guy that doesn’t kill comes from.

So, I tried to do it by proxy. Shoot the car they’re in, the car blows up or the grenade would go off in the guy’s hand, or when he shoots the tank and the guy pretty much lights the tank [himself]. I perceive it as him not killing directly, but if the bad guy’s are associated with a thing that happens to blow up, he would say that that’s not really my problem.

A little more like manslaughter than murder, although I would say that in the Frank Miller comic book that I reference, he kills all the time. There’s a scene from the graphic novel where he busts through a wall, takes the guy’s machine gun…I took that little vignette from a scene in The Dark Knight Returns, and at the end of that, he shoots the guy right between the eyes with the machine gun. One shot. Of course, I went to the gas tank, and all of the guys I work with were like, ‘You’ve gotta shoot him in the head’ because they’re all comic book dorks, and I was like, ‘I’m not gonna be the guy that does that!’