BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

[JOE]

I kept reading online how awesome Wonder Woman was, I hated her? Did anyone else just not care for her besides how hot she looked?

 

[BatMeng]

I thought all of the characters separately were fine. The movie actually has me looking forward to Wonder Woman, a solo Bats and a proper Man of Steel sequel (if they do one). Putting them all together with that story though just did not work at all for me. Which is disappointing considering I had really high hopes with Terrio on board. Makes me very nervous for JL tbh.

 

[Mjölnir]

I kept reading online how awesome Wonder Woman was, I hated her? Did anyone else just not care for her besides how hot she looked?

I thought she was pretty good. She looked cooler than the other two heroes when fighting Doomsday, and she worked well acting-wise at the party.

Outside of the party Gal had more trouble delivering the lines convincingly and with emotion, but while that's important it wasn't enough for me to dislike her (she only has 16 lines or so in total). The movie has far bigger issues, although I don't see her as a huge positive either since I'm not any more sure she can lead her own movie after seeing this.

 

[The Guard]

Batman didn't use Kryptonite until Superman had already turned into a fight. He ran a human through an apartment building. That's really fighting someone as that's not a given that he'll survive. That's not a moral high ground.

Superman could have destroyed his toys like he did at the start, remain in air and just kept talking. He could have just held Batman in place and forced him to listen since Batman can do nothing against that strength. He could have kept just pushing him over and talked to him. All these were 100% viable from the view Superman had (that Batman was no threat whatsoever).

We also know in hindsight that as soon as Superman managed to get out a couple of sentences Batman would stop at the magic word, so even from a story perspective it would have worked.

I'm talking about the reason for the fight and its resolution.
Fighting, period isn't moral high ground. There's a gray area to superheroes. Theres precedent for Clark having a temper, using violence to solve his problems, etc. it's the core the superhero concept.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I have a question, I probably missed it, but how did Lex plan to control Doomsday?

 

[The Guard]

He didn't, and I like that Superman had to save him.

 

[The Guard]

It's coming back to me now. How did Lex know Clark Kent is Superman? I did not understand this at all. All of a sudden Batman is Bruce, Supes is Clark Jo.

I suspect its Darkseid. Luthor had dossiers on everyone.

 

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

I kept reading online how awesome Wonder Woman was, I hated her? Did anyone else just not care for her besides how hot she looked?

I really didn't care that much about her. She was just... there.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

I have a question, I probably missed it, but how did Lex plan to control Doomsday?

By putting his blood in it? He just wanted Superman gone. I don't think he knew what he created.

 

[Rapunzel]

Fighting, period isn't moral high ground. There's a gray area to superheroes. Theres precedent for Clark having a temper, using violence to solve his problems, etc. it's the core the superhero concept.

Yeah, I think there's part of Supes that is just upset Bats is trying to kill him, and that results in him participating in the fight more than he should. I can imagine he's thinking, "I don't have time for this. This guy is a jerk."

Essentially, Bats' stubborn negativity is contagious. It's hard not to fight someone who wants to fight you and won't stop.

 

[OutOfBoose]

He didn't, and I like that Superman had to save him.

I liked that too, but I wish Lex had some plan on how to utilize Doomsday if he kills Superman.

 

[Mjölnir]

I'm talking about the reason for the fight and its resolution.
Fighting, period isn't moral high ground. There's a gray area to superheroes. Theres precedent for Clark having a temper, using violence to solve his problems, etc. it's the core the superhero concept.

And I disagreed since Superman was less moral than Batman imo. Batman at least thought he was doing something important and gambled against a far more powerful opponent.

Superman just seems to fight due to that he's annoyed, which takes unnecessary time that he doesn't have until his mom dies. I don't think he had a moral victory there.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I just remember thinking, "dude, TELL HIM what's going on and you can wrap this up in a minute or two. Your mom is going to die."
I'm going to see it again to check if I still feel that way or if I'm being nitpicky.

Yeah but that would mean giving Superman more dialogue, and we can't have that. Might invest people in something other than Batman's cool toys!

 

[Rapunzel]

Yeah, that Doomsday stuff stood out to me too. Lex is creating DD, while anticipating Bats will kill Supes for him. Why the two simultaneous plans? If Bats had killed Supes, what was DD for?

 

[Boy Scout]

I think I might just catch this on DVD.

 

[Mjölnir]

I have a question, I probably missed it, but how did Lex plan to control Doomsday?

He seemingly didn't and I don't get where he went from "kryptonians are a danger to Earth" to "lets unlesh horrors on the Earth". Not only Doomsday but he seems to relish the coming of, what I assume is, Darkseid.

I guess it's a crazy turn on the same level as his personality was.

 

[The Guard]

Yeah, I think there's part of Supes that is just upset Bats is trying to kill him, and that results in him participating in the fight more than he should. I can imagine he's thinking, "I don't have time for this. This guy is a jerk."

Essentially, Bats' stubborn negativity is contagious. It's hard not to fight someone who wants to fight you and won't stop.

This. It's a very human response.

 

[The Guard]

Yeah, that Doomsday stuff stood out to me too. Lex is creating DD, while anticipating Bats will kill Supes for him. Why the two simultaneous plans? If Bats had killed Supes, what was DD for?

Backup. He flat out says if this won't work, this will have to do.

 

[Flint Marko]

Yeah but that would mean giving Superman more dialogue, and we can't have that. Might invest people in something other than Batman's cool toys!

True.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Yeah, that Doomsday stuff stood out to me too. Lex is creating DD, while anticipating Bats will kill Supes for him. Why the two simultaneous plans? If Bats had killed Supes, what was DD for?

It was obvious to me, that Lex learned about outer worlds from Zod's ship, meta-humans (red capes are coming) and he was preparing an ultimate weapon to be able to maintain his power. He wasn't necessary baking DD for Superman, but since Batman didn't kill Superman, he decided to try DD on him.

 

[BatMeng]

It's coming back to me now. How did Lex know Clark Kent is Superman? I did not understand this at all. All of a sudden Batman is Bruce, Supes is Clark Jo.

He figured it out when he took control of the scout ship and it told him everything.

 

[Rapunzel]

And I disagreed since Superman was less moral than Batman imo. Batman at least thought he was doing something important and gambled against a far more powerful opponent.

Superman just seems to fight due to that he's annoyed, which takes unnecessary time that he doesn't have until his mom dies. I don't think he had a moral victory there.

I think Supes still has the clear moral victory. Bats is picking a fight with him. That shouldn't have happened. At all.

Bats is the bully. Supes is the bullied. I don't blame the bullied for hitting back when the bully strikes. It's not a good thing, but they are still better morally than the bully.

 

[TheScarecrow]

I think Supes still has the clear moral victory. Bats is picking a fight with him. That shouldn't have happened. At all.

Bats is the bully. Supes is the bullied. I don't blame the bullied for hitting back when the bully strikes. It's not a good thing, but they are still better morally than the bully.

Hang on a second.

Superman picked the fight when he messed up the Batmobile and basically threatened to kill Bats ("consider this mercy"), for no particular reason other than Batman was branding criminals.

 

[Mjölnir]

Hang on a second.

Superman picked the fight when he messed up the Batmobile and basically threatened to kill Bats ("consider this mercy"), for no particular reason other than Batman was branding criminals.

Since you already got to it I'll just say; this.

Also Batman actually has a reason to want to fight Superman, because he thinks he's a huge danger to Earth. Superman's reasons are either invalid or small.

 

[Rapunzel]

It was obvious to me, that Lex learned about outer worlds from Zod's ship, meta-humans (red capes are coming) and he was preparing an ultimate weapon to be able to maintain his power. He wasn't necessary baking DD for Superman, but since Batman didn't kill Superman, he decided to try DD on him.

I'll buy that. But that still doesn't explain what he expected to do with this beast after he killed Supes.