BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

[OutOfBoose]

I'll buy that. But that still doesn't explain what he expected to do with this beast after he killed Supes.

I suppose his blood meant something initially, but got lost somewhere in the making. Thus we have a scene where DD attacks Lex and Superman has to protect him. Weird.

Unless we missed something.

 

[writer0327]

I'll buy that. But that still doesn't explain what he expected to do with this beast after he killed Supes.

I believe he wanted to use Doomsday as a weapon against whatever else was out there, Darkseid presumably, and one that he would have complete control over.

 

[writer0327]

I suppose his blood meant something initially, but got lost somewhere in the making. Thus we have a scene where DD attacks Lex and Superman has to protect him. Weird.

Unless we missed something.

I think he believed Doomsday wouldn't attack him but he was wrong.

 

[The Guard]

Since you already got to it I'll just say; this.

Also Batman actually has a reason to want to fight Superman, because he thinks he's a huge danger to Earth. Superman's reasons are either invalid or small.

Are they? Batman's an unchecked violent vigilante. He's exactly what the world is telling Superman they don't want.

 

[Rapunzel]

Hang on a second.

Superman picked the fight when he messed up the Batmobile and basically threatened to kill Bats ("consider this mercy"), for no particular reason other than Batman was branding criminals.

Um....Bats is blowing all sorts of stuff up chasing those guys that work for Lex. Of course Supes shows up. He doesn't mess up the Batmobile, Bats does, by running into him because he is recklessly running around town creating chaos.

And he's NOT threatening Bats. He's warning him. Frankly, it's damned magnanimous that he doesn't haul his Bats' butt to jail, but instead gives him a chance to change.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Yeah, that Doomsday stuff stood out to me too. Lex is creating DD, while anticipating Bats will kill Supes for him. Why the two simultaneous plans? If Bats had killed Supes, what was DD for?

Do you really think they thought it out that much? Lex, the supposed genius, has no planning skills whatsoever outside of kidnapping and piss threats. He's a thug here. Nothing more.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I think he believed Doomsday wouldn't attack him but he was wrong.

I can buy it, adds to Lex's recklessness.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Do you really think they thought it out that much? Lex, the supposed genius, has no planning skills whatsoever outside of kidnapping and piss threats. He's a thug here. Nothing more.

Or maybe you didn't think it through properly.

 

[TheTarkKnight]

I loved when the police find the women in the cage and they say "IT" saved us, and they won't leave the cage although it's unlocked (presumably by Batman) because "IT" is still there.

Snyder got Batman right for the most part, sans the killing by proxy deal.

Superman's existence was creating conflict amongst people, when there were questions whether if you are in danger and Superman does not save you does he do so because he wants to or he's busy saving someone else, and how does he make the decision who to save. So I can surely understand Superman's conflicts and his emotional response to humans. Maybe that's why Zack Snyder thought that Superman cannot be this beacon of hope and a happy person because of all these internal conflicts he has despite all his powers.

All in all, this movie could've been much better. I think it's a missed opportunity for a better introduction into the Justice league, but this is what we got at the moment. I just hope that the Warner Bros. executives take a good hard look at how this movie was received and plan right away if this is how they want to proceed with this franchise.

 

[Rapunzel]

Since you already got to it I'll just say; this.

Also Batman actually has a reason to want to fight Superman, because he thinks he's a huge danger to Earth. Superman's reasons are either invalid or small.

What?? That's just totally the opposite of what this film says. Bats ADMITS he wants to kill Supes not because he's an enemy but a POTENTIAL enemy. This is absurd logic. He is the one without the valid reasons.

Superman's reasons for fighting are because Bats is running around playing judge jury and executioner. And scaring people. He's the one with the valid reasons and he still treats Bats reasonably. Until Bats tries to kill him

If Supes didn't have the moral high ground and more valid reasoning, then Bats would not have changed at the end. Which he clearly does.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Yes, Batman is cleary a bully this time, his disappointment, fears and emotions took over him, plus it looks like he was manipulated by someone bigger than Lex as well, hence his vision.

 

[Corysxj88]

so with regards to Justice League, are we now going to spend the first half of that movie bringing superman back to life instead of, you know, teaming up the heroes? the ending of the movie wouldn't have been half as bad if it didn't have a major impact on the future storylines. if they go evil superman route like injustice, i'm out.

I agree here. We have already established the story here, its now time for the rest of the Justice League to shine. I would like to see a 10 minute real time battle with a villain (someone maybe like Darkseid or multiple villains) against the entire Justice League. How epic would that be? something where when the battle starts, that's all we see for the full 10 minutes, no flashbacks, no other stories going on, just that. I want to see these characters working together and getting tired and beat down, but ultimately win.

 

[TheTarkKnight]

Um....Bats is blowing all sorts of stuff up chasing those guys that work for Lex. Of course Supes shows up. He doesn't mess up the Batmobile, Bats does, by running into him because he is recklessly running around town creating chaos.

And he's NOT threatening Bats. He's warning him. Frankly, it's damned magnanimous that he doesn't haul his Bats' butt to jail, but instead gives him a chance to change.

Superman does not give them a chance to change. He's telling him to end Batman, which for a Bruce broken as much as he is in this movie would be unacceptable. I think it would be unacceptable to any incarnation of Bruce Wayne to stop being Batman. Bruce reacts right away to his request by asking him if he bleeds. But yes, Superman did try to give them a chance and I think you were able to see the disappointment is Superman's face once he confirms what he thought would be Batman's reaction all along.

 

[Mjölnir]

Are they? Batman's an unchecked violent vigilante. He's exactly what the world is telling Superman they don't want.

Compared to what threat Superman is seen as (and from the looks of it Superman has caused more civilian/innocent deaths), yes it's small, but that's not even why Superman fights Batman. He ultimately goes there to get Batman's help with Martha or to kill him to save her (the movie makes it clear he is considering that option on some level). He tries to reason briefly but then just turns annoyed and ties to smash Batman into surrender.

A fight where the ideologies would have been front and center would have been so much more rewarding (as DD season 2 showed). The movie spent so much time on not building that up, despite that it was so long.

 

[sepharih]

That entire scene with the Batmobile being recked by Supes is in retrospect one of the most perplexing parts of the movie. The trailers gave me the impression that it was a small snippet of a larger conversation that happened. That turned out not to be the case, and its placement in the movie and its character motivations really don't make sense to me.

Superman intervening because Bats is causing destruction and mayhem (and likely two deaths) makes sense...but why does he let him get off with a warning?

 

[Corysxj88]

One thing I have never understood.... Why don't these writers and directors get with real comic book fans when making these movies... why not seek out to see what the world in which you are filming wants to see? You want to be a truck driver, you train with other truck drivers to learn what to do.

 

[Mjölnir]

What?? That's just totally the opposite of what this film says. Bats ADMITS he wants to kill Supes not because he's an enemy but a POTENTIAL enemy. This is absurd logic. He is the one without the valid reasons.

Superman's reasons for fighting are because Bats is running around playing judge jury and executioner. And scaring people. He's the one with the valid reasons and he still treats Bats reasonably. Until Bats tries to kill him

If Supes didn't have the moral high ground and more valid reasoning, then Bats would not have changed at the end. Which he clearly does.

Superman's reason to fight is that Lex is trying to force him to do it. When they fight Superman is not there to stop a vigilante, he's there to prevent his mom from being killed, but still jeopardizes that by starting a fight because he gets annoyed, spending more of that precious time.

Batman is certainly extreme, and probably over the line. But at that point Superman has threatened his life personally, which is not exactly going to make him more prone to believe that Superman is safe to have around. It's hypocritical but here's where large and small comes to play.

 

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

Do you really think they thought it out that much? Lex, the supposed genius, has no planning skills whatsoever outside of kidnapping and piss threats. He's a thug here. Nothing more.

Knowing Snyder, they didn't really think it through.

 

[The Guard]

I did like the cameos. What happened with The Flash was really cool and compelling and Aquaman doesn't have time for this. Heh.

I think Darkseid is definitely involved in Batman's mindset. Possibly trying to prevent the heroes from coming together? Batman's not going to be happy when he finds that out his mind has been messed with.

 

[sepharih]

One thing I have never understood.... Why don't these writers and directors get with real comic book fans when making these movies... why not seek out to see what the world in which you are filming wants to see? You want to be a truck driver, you train with other truck drivers to learn what to do.

I was reading a book a while ago called "John Carter and the Gods of Hollywood" about the troubled production and one of the things it talks about is how insular hollywood is. Specifically the writer talked a lot about the marketing department and how people who market movies basically scoff at anybody else in advertising who thinks they can do their job better, but it seems that way everywhere.

Basically...no matter how big you are anywhere else, until you make it big in Hollywood they think you're a nobody. I get the impression that most of them look down their noses at the people who write their source material. The system really calls for people like Joss Whedon who have had successful careers in both...but there's only so many people like that.

 

[Charlus2]

Guys, a copuple of questions.

1) What exactly was Luthor thinking to do with Doomsday after Superman´s death? Plus, the military knew he had access to the ship, so that he was the responsable for its creation. What was his plan beyond killing Superman, if any?

2) How come Superman knew Batman´s identity, Lex Luthor knew both Superman´s and Batman´s, but the greates detective of all didn´t have a clue about anything?

 

[Rapunzel]

Superman's reason to fight is that Lex is trying to force him to do it. When they fight Superman is not there to stop a vigilante, he's there to prevent his mom from being killed, but still jeopardizes that by starting a fight because he gets annoyed, spending more of that precious time.

Bats' own stupid paranoia and hard headedness is what annoys Supes. And allows Lex to set up his hostage situation with Martha in the first place. If Bats wasn't a bully, none of this fight would have happened.

 

[JOE]

The Flash scene in the convenience store was okay, nothing special.

Aquaman was awkward AF... Didn't like it at all.

Flash showing up in the bat cave was weird and his costume looked terrible IMO, didn't like that either.

Cyborg looked cool.

I also found it weird the logos he had for them on the file folder? It felt so forced...

 

[Kobra]

People saying Superman didn't have a good reason to have a beef with Batman must have not watched the movie with attention. It's even said in the movie that the Bat brand is death sentence in prison

 

[JOE]

I didn't like Superman in MOS and I hated him even more in BvS. He's not the Superman I grew up with, he just felt like a spoiled baby, a sappy teen.