BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

[sepharih]

Do you know what a serial killer is?

From wikipedia:

A serial killer is a person who murders three or more people,[1][2] usually in service of abnormal psychological gratification.

That pretty much sums up our new Batman nicely.

 

[The Guard]

I couldn't really make it out. It was hard to see. I think on my next viewing, I'll be trying to get a better look.

I tried, the Lightning obscures a lot of it.

The knightmare is supposed to be jarring. Flash is supposed to be confusing. That's how Bruce experiences it.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

Very good point The Guard.

About the ultimate cut, seeing Charles Roven's (producer) interview on Collider, it seems that it's the cut Zack put out for the studio at some point until he says there was just too much material for it to be the theatrical cut.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Lex asked the military for clearance. Then he created Doomsday...it's not just the Bullet.

Yes. Except, there's no known proof he created doomsday and theres certainly no known proof he created doomsday with malicious intent. And as I said before, the government gave him access even though they knew of his involvement with the desert situation. That makes the government complicit in giving a known criminal access to very powerful weapons and materials which he then used to create doomsday. That makes the government complicit. Even IF the evidence existed to prove that in a court of law, even IF Lex's vast fortune and power and resources weren't able to free him of the accusations in a court of law, do you really think the government would let it go so far as to let themselves be that exposed?

 

[kevin2323]

From wikipedia:



That pretty much sums up our new Batman nicely.

not even close. I never saw him kill anyone point blank in the entire movie.


either way the "batman doesn't kill" crowd has no reason to complain when batman kills people in the novel that he is based on for this movie.

 

[sepharih]

not even close. I never saw him kill anyone point blank in the entire movie.

What do you mean by point blank? We see him kill multiple people on screen first hand, and he has an even bigger bodycount through his death by proxy branding method.

either way the "batman doesn't kill" crowd has no reason to complain when batman kills people in the novel that he is based on for this movie.

WRONG! That logic did not make sense with Zod and it makes even less sense here. "It happened in the comics" is *NOT* an acceptable justification. Stupid stuff happens all the time in the comics. Just because there was a clone saga in spider-man or a blue electrical suit in Superman doesn't meant the films could or should make the same mistakes.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I don't even know how Lex ends up in prison. Lois says she's investigating him, but really she has nothing. She has a bullet made by his company which she can't prove where she got it and does nothing to prove Lex's involvement in a conspiracy or crime. And she has a tip of classified information from a source who will never go on record to confirm it; which makes it unsubstantiated hearsay especially since there is nothing shown of Lois discovering any evidence or information which would confirm the accusations. There is no other known admissible evidence offered, or anything that would stand up in a court of law, or anything that a super rich and powerful man like Lex couldn't tie up in litigation for decades and eventually get away with. Hell, he couldn't even be tied to Doomsday, not that the government/military would want that to be public knowledge since they were complicit in providing him access to the materials and technology to do so, despite the fact the government/military was aware of his involvement in the desert conspiracy. There's not even any motivation for Lex to be doing any of these things other than the fact he has the name Lex Luthor and we all know that means he's a bad guy who does bad things.

Don't forget that in the time it took to bury Superman he was tried and convicted and incarcerated AND had his house seized. He must have the WORST lawyers in the world.

 

[Motown Marvel]

not even close. I never saw him kill anyone point blank in the entire movie.


either way the "batman doesn't kill" crowd has no reason to complain when batman kills people in the novel that he is based on for this movie.

Dude, even Zack Snyder unapologetically admits batman is a killer in his movies. And the Batman story this is based on isn't even canon. If you are fine with batman killing, ok. I wholly disagree with it, but that is an opinion you are allowed to have. But if you wanna pretend a batman with a no kill code hasn't traditionally been integral in the history of the character, and therefore are incapable of understanding why fans take issue with a killer batman, then you are just gonna sound like a moron.

 

[writer0327]

Yes. Except, there's no known proof he created doomsday and theres certainly no known proof he created doomsday with malicious intent. And as I said before, the government gave him access even though they knew of his involvement with the desert situation. That makes the government complicit in giving a known criminal access to very powerful weapons and materials which he then used to create doomsday. That makes the government complicit. Even IF the evidence existed to prove that in a court of law, even IF Lex's vast fortune and power and resources weren't able to free him of the accusations in a court of law, do you really think the government would let it go so far as to let themselves be that exposed?

Maybe he went to jail for the attempted murder of Lois Lane and the kidnapping of Martha Kent. Lois and Martha and maybe any of the random thugs that Batman didn't kill could certainly testify to both of those crimes.

 

[matt47]

But... why that music? placeholder for what should've been aquaman music?

I just didn't think the WW theme worked for that scene. But yeah, basically placeholder. It felt the most deep sea-esque of the MoS/BvS tracks.

 

[Tim_Riggins]

Look, it's AN interpretation of Batman, just like there are numerous representations of him throughout video games, comic books, films, animation films, series. It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea and that's okay.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Maybe he went to jail for the attempted murder of Lois Lane and the kidnapping of Martha Kent. Lois and Martha and maybe any of the random thugs that Batman didn't kill could certainly testify to both of those crimes.

There's no known proof Lex tried to kill Lois other than her word against his.

And there is no way someone as smart as Lex would be tied to Martha's kidnapping via the hired muscle. There are buffers between those who do the crime and those who order the crime. That's how crime bosses get away with things.

 

[OutOfBoose]

If it was just a nightmare Batman had brought on by his fears about Superman, then THAT would have made sense. But adding in allusions to Darkseid and having the Flash appear to tell him that he can't let Lois die or something indicates something else is going on--that it wasn't a dream; it was an actual vision of the future. Yet those things are never addressed again in the film. And yeah, Snyder is world building and all that, but if you're going to throw something like that out there, you have to make it feel more organic in THIS movie instead of just hoping to address it in the next one.

This future vision doesn't go in conflict with Batman's predisposition towards Superman, it just fuels his rage and fears even more. By that time he already learned about meta-humans, as I remember. But what really can he do about that vision? How to understand it? Is it a nightmare? What was it? Did it make sense for him? I think both audience and Batman at that point shouldn't make more out of that, other than it's some kind of nightmarish dream of the future, where Superman is great danger. I'm sure GA didn't even pick up all those allusions.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Can't Lex be arrested for creation of DD, who caused massive destruction? Nobody knew he got access to that ship, that he possessed Zod's body?

 

[Tim_Riggins]

Well that government guy he made the deal with let him have access to the ship and Zod's body.

 

[NateHevens]

I don't even know how Lex ends up in prison. Lois says she's investigating him, but really she has nothing. She has a bullet made by his company which she can't prove where she got it and does nothing to prove Lex's involvement in a conspiracy or crime. And she has a tip of classified information from a source who will never go on record to confirm it; which makes it unsubstantiated hearsay especially since there is nothing shown of Lois discovering any evidence or information which would confirm the accusations. There is no other known admissible evidence offered, or anything that would stand up in a court of law, or anything that a super rich and powerful man like Lex couldn't tie up in litigation for decades and eventually get away with. Hell, he couldn't even be tied to Doomsday, not that the government/military would want that to be public knowledge since they were complicit in providing him access to the materials and technology to do so, despite the fact the government/military was aware of his involvement in the desert conspiracy. There's not even any motivation for Lex to be doing any of these things other than the fact he has the name Lex Luthor and we all know that means he's a bad guy who does bad things.

This is actually part of what pisses me off about this film, but... I'm hoping the extended edition elucidates on this. I do get why he went to prison. Obviously the investigation into the bullet paid off, and, somehow, that attached him to Doomsday, but it wasn't shown at all, which makes me hope that it's shown more in the extended edition.

That shouldn't be the case. A good extended edition shouldn't be clearing up plot points, just adding more footage. It looks like this extended edition has to fill the role of elucidating the plot holes and answering the questions the theatrical cut should have already done...

----------------------------------------------------

On a separate note... I'm getting sick and tired of reading complaints about "nit-picking".

Quick question to those crying about that:

What isn't nit-picking in your eyes? Because it seems as if the only way you wouldn't be complaining about "nit-picking" is if everybody thought the film was 100% perfect and had no damn flaws whatsoever.

You seem to define "nit-picking" as "any possible problem someone has with the film". Which, at that point, tells me you have no counter-argument. From my point of view, crying about "nit-picking" is as good as you admitting that you have zero counter-argument. You know BvS is flawed but don't want to admit it.

So yeah... from now on, I'll be treating all complaints about "nit-picking" as equivalent to "I have no counter-arguments to all the problems others are pointing out but don't want to admit it".

 

[Supa]

So, any Mercy Graves fans here?
Because what the ****.

Also, I have to agree that the Knighmare sequence is just out of place, especially the part with the Flash. It's just a thing that happens that's never acknowledged again, and it's only purpose, besides to plug a future movie because **** these superhero films, is to reveal Lois Lane is important to Superman in the least subtle and most distracting, over the top way possible.

Like it's kinda cool to see visions of the future, but it's terrible writing to just drop one in there and then just move on. It's like an end credits scene, except the editor miss-placed it into the middle of the movie.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Can't Lex be arrested for creation of DD, who caused massive destruction? Nobody knew he got access to that ship, that he possessed Zod's body?

Well, as you saw in the film, more people than lex has access to the ship. So you have to first prove that doomsday was even created by someone, you'd then have to prove it was lex who created him, you'd then have to prove he created him with malicious intent and that it wasn't just some freak accident that occurred during his government sanctioned experiments. The fact that they're dealing with unknown alien technology gives him all the plausible deniability in the world.

 

[The Guard]

So, any Mercy Graves fans here?
Because what the ****.

There has to be a deleted scene. Has to be.

Also, I have to agree that the Knighmare sequence is just out of place, especially the part with the Flash. It's just a thing that happens that's never acknowledged again, and it's only purpose, besides to plug a future movie because **** these superhero films, is to reveal Lois Lane is important to Superman in the least subtle and most distracting, over the top way possible.

Like it's kinda cool to see visions of the future, but it's terrible writing to just drop one in there and then just move on. It's like an end credits scene, except the editor miss-placed it into the middle of the movie.

It's acknowledged again at the end of the movie. It's part of why Batman wants to find the others.

Its to show there's a broader sci fi world, which is part of Bruce's arc. Why is that terrible writing?

 

[OutOfBoose]

Then it's the bullet lead most likely?

 

[The Guard]

Lex is either in jail or prison. We don't know which. He could just be awaiting trial. I think there's certainly reasonable cause to hold him. As for proof...a lot of people, critics included, thought all the procedural stuff was boring, so would that really have been the way to go?

There's the bullet, the event at court, Doomsday...
I would imagine Martha's testimony might, you know, matter.

 

[OutOfBoose]

It's acknowledged again at the end of the movie. It's part of why Batman wants to find the others.

Its to show there's a broader sci fi world, which is part of Bruce's arc. Why is that terrible writing?

Yes, I wanted to mention it too. Bruce figures it out in the end to some extent.

 

[TDKR1977]

I tried, the Lightning obscures a lot of it.

The knightmare is supposed to be jarring. Flash is supposed to be confusing. That's how Bruce experiences it.

It was crystal clear to me...

 

[The Guard]

Yes, I wanted to mention it too. Bruce figures it out in the end to some extent.

It was plain as day.

"Find us or bad things will happen!"

"We have to find others".

 

[Poni_Boy]

I can see how some people disliked the dream sequences in Batman V. Superman. However I think we needed to show what Batman was thinking, what the fears that motivated his actions were and why he had the goals he did.

Part of me wishes what was and what was not dream sequence had been a little more clear. However I think it was clear enough.

So these were dreams, right? He, completely in his own head, created Darkseid's logo and the Parademons, right?

Because if that's what people got out of that, and that seems to be the consensus, I'd better not ****ing see Darkseid OR Parademons in any of these movies because THAT means Batman has super clairvoyant powers.