BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

[Motown Marvel]

Then it's the bullet lead most likely?

Which leads to nothing. A bullet manufactured by Lex's company does not make him involved in the desert incident. Lois can't even prove the bullet came from that scene.

 

[writer0327]

There's no known proof Lex tried to kill Lois other than her word against his.

And there is no way someone as smart as Lex would be tied to Martha's kidnapping via the hired muscle. There are buffers between those who do the crime and those who order the crime. That's how crime bosses get away with things.

I don't know about Lex the crime boss. What about those pictures of the kidnapped Martha? He just scattered them all over the roof, did he go back and pick them up or wipe his fingerprints off of them? How careful was he with the theft of the Kryptonite? How careful was he with the bombing of the Senate? Lex exhibited a huge amount of arrogance in several moments in this film, so to say he couldn't have slipped and made a mistake due to his sheer overconfidence and cockiness is a stretch. He's not your typical crime boss because he is there at the scene of the crime throwing Lois off the building. His fingerprints are all over her too.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Lex was arrested for the bombing of the Capitol per the news reports in the movie.

 

[writer0327]

Well, as you saw in the film, more people than lex has access to the ship. So you have to first prove that doomsday was even created by someone, you'd then have to prove it was lex who created him, you'd then have to prove he created him with malicious intent and that it wasn't just some freak accident that occurred during his government sanctioned experiments. The fact that they're dealing with unknown alien technology gives him all the plausible deniability in the world.

Perhaps during the investigation, another intelligent scientist is able to speak to the computer and get the facts on what actually happened. Lex went in there pushing buttons and flipping switches. Are we sure he covered all of his tracks?

 

[OutOfBoose]

Lex was arrested for the bombing of the Capitol per the news reports in the movie.

Hmm, interesting.

I also think Marcy Graves ended up on cutting table, maybe there was some grievous imagery of her wounds? Will we see her in the final cut?

 

[Motown Marvel]

Lex is either in jail or prison. We don't know which. He could just be awaiting trial. I think there's certainly reasonable cause to hold him. As for proof...a lot of people, critics included, thought all the procedural stuff was boring, so would that really have been the way to go?

There's the bullet, the event at court, Doomsday...
I would imagine Martha's testimony might, you know, matter.

Except Lex can't be tied to any of those things. Lex's company may have developed the bullet but that doesn't mean lex is involved in the desert incident which Lois can't even prove the bullet came from. Martha was never aware of Lex's involvement, certainly in no way which could be proven in court. And there's no proof Lex created doomsday and no proof he created him with malicious intent. Not that the government would want that to be proven in a public court anyways since they are the ones who gave him access, which makes them complicit in the resulting mayhem.

And the fact that the writers apparently sucked at writing procedural doesn't mean you forego procedure when placing a main character in jail. You don't get to say "these guys suck at writing so let's not blame them for sucking at writing." The fact that any explanation for him being in prison requires so much speculation and assumption on behalf of the audience goes to show how bad the writing is. And it's all the more stupid when there's no reason to end with him in prison in the first place. It adds nothing to the film.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Which leads to nothing. A bullet manufactured by Lex's company does not make him involved in the desert incident. Lois can't even prove the bullet came from that scene.

How about investigation involving the bombing? Superman was redeemed in the end, means someone else became a suspect.

Also, we don't know if he's sentenced and if there will be more trials. I kinda have a feeling his lawyers will free him in JL. So he remains the lead of Lex Corp.

 

[comicfan13]

So these were dreams, right? He, completely in his own head, created Darkseid's logo and the Parademons, right?

Because if that's what people got out of that, and that seems to be the consensus, I'd better not ****ing see Darkseid OR Parademons in any of these movies because THAT means Batman has super clairvoyant powers.

I thought that was the Flash showing him the future....

 

[Matt Mortem]

Did anyone else think that the Aquaman footage was pretty stupid. Flash was cool, Cyborg was cool, but Aquaman was just kind of awkward.

 

[Verick808]

I felt the entire nightmare was unnecessary, even if I did like it. Take out the nightmare sequence, take out the Africa conspiracy. Extend some of Superman's scenes by letting him actually speak a little.
I would have actually liked to see him save the girl in the fire instead of just cutting to after it was done. I would have liked to see him actually confiding in his mother instead of just hearing her half of the conversation.
Also, what was the point in setting Superman up against Batman with photos of a dead criminal if Lex was just going to blackmail Superman into fighting him?

 

[Motown Marvel]

I don't know about Lex the crime boss. What about those pictures of the kidnapped Martha? He just scattered them all over the roof, did he go back and pick them up or wipe his fingerprints off of them? How careful was he with the theft of the Kryptonite? How careful was he with the bombing of the Senate? Lex exhibited a huge amount of arrogance in several moments in this film, so to say he couldn't have slipped and made a mistake due to his sheer overconfidence and cockiness is a stretch. He's not your typical crime boss because he is there at the scene of the crime throwing Lois off the building. His fingerprints are all over her too.

Does anyone have those pictures? I dunno. Was it ever followed up in the movie to justify him being in prison? No. I highly doubt any legal action was pursued against lex on behalf of Martha since it would open Lex up to telling the world Clark Kent is superman which puts Martha in farther danger against future villains.

The kryptonite, again nothing was presented in the film in regards to the kryptonite smuggling that puts him in prison. There is no reason to believe he wasn't successful in smuggling it without a trace. Not that it matters since he doesn't even have possession of the kryptonite to prove he smuggled anything.

I'm sure it's easy to prove Lex provided that dude with his wheelchair but you'd have to prove Lex equipped it with the bomb. And seeing as the man had already a run in with the law due to his manifested outrage against superman, it would be hard to "prove" the bombing wasn't just a result of that mans outrage against superman, but the inexplicable will of Lex Luthor.

Again, the fact that explaining Lex's arrest requires so much speculation and assumption on behalf of the audience shows the failings of the script.

 

[OutOfBoose]

And the fact that the writers apparently sucked at writing procedural doesn't mean you forego procedure when placing a main character in jail. You don't get to say "these guys suck at writing so let's not blame them for sucking at writing." The fact that any explanation for him being in prison requires so much speculation and assumption on behalf of the audience goes to show how bad the writing is. And it's all the more stupid when there's no reason to end with him in prison in the first place. It adds nothing to the film.

I think you need to chill a bit. Maybe they suck at writing, or maybe they didn't want to waste time on Lex's trial and law mumbo-jumbo in this movie or whatever. The movie isn't called United States v Lex Luthor. They found Lex guilty and put him in jail for crimes. End of story. It's not that important.

 

[writer0327]

How about investigation involving the bombing? Superman was redeemed in the end, means someone else became a suspect.

Also, we don't know if he's sentenced and if there will be more trials. I kinda have a feeling his lawyers will free him in JL. So he remains the lead of Lex Corp.

Agreed, who knows if Senator Finch was keeping records of her conversations with Lex, as many politicians tend to do. She knew Lex was up to something she disapproved of, at the very least wanted to control herself, so she probably started recording every single meeting she had with him. I get it, maybe a quick shot of Senator Finch turning off a tape recorder gives us all we would need, but just because we don't see the smoking gun in the film doesn't mean there wasn't one. I'm sure if this movie was "The Trial of Lex Luthor", we'd have seen more concrete evidence that ties it all together.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I thought that was the Flash showing him the future....

Flash showed up after he woke up from the "first" dream. Flash was part of the "second" dream. It looks like two completely different scenes there's even a screen cut between them. Batception.

But for argument's sake let's say Flash could have shown him the future. How do we know? Not even the lines he says make sense with the story he's telling. It looks like another one of his booze filled dreams crazy dreams that he keeps having. So is it a dream or not? I don't think they even know

 

[OutOfBoose]

edit.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Does anyone have those pictures? I dunno. Was it ever followed up in the movie to justify him being in prison? No. I highly doubt any legal action was pursued against lex on behalf of Martha since it would open Lex up to telling the world Clark Kent is superman which puts Martha in farther danger against future villains.

The kryptonite, again nothing was presented in the film in regards to the kryptonite smuggling that puts him in prison. There is no reason to believe he wasn't successful in smuggling it without a trace. Not that it matters since he doesn't even have possession of the kryptonite to prove he smuggled anything.

I'm sure it's easy to prove Lex provided that dude with his wheelchair but you'd have to prove Lex equipped it with the bomb. And seeing as the man had already a run in with the law due to his manifested outrage against superman, it would be hard to "prove" the bombing wasn't just a result of that mans outrage against superman, but the inexplicable will of Lex Luthor.

Again, the fact that explaining Lex's arrest requires so much speculation and assumption on behalf of the audience shows the failings of the script.

Such an odd disconnect in communication. You legit have to assume a dozen scene tie ins that you think up yourself for the story to be complete.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I think you need to chill a bit. Maybe they suck at writing, or maybe they didn't want to waste time on Lex's trial and law mumbo-jumbo in this movie or whatever. The movie isn't called United States v Lex Luthor. They found Lex guilty and put him in jail for crimes. End of story. It's not that important.

You can't put a character in prison for no explainable reason. If it's not that important, then don't do it!

 

[comicfan13]

Did anyone else think that the Aquaman footage was pretty stupid. Flash was cool, Cyborg was cool, but Aquaman was just kind of awkward.

I didn't think it was stupid but I enjoyed the others more. I liked him attacking the underwater drone and then speeding off. Side note here....how are they going to film Aquaman? I'm not too familiar with his comics but if everything is under water how will that work? Looks like I have some reading to do...

 

[OutOfBoose]

You can't put a character in prison for no explainable reason. If it's not that important, then don't do it!

I don't remember it personally (I was still processing the final fight), but Unbreakable Lex says:

Lex was arrested for the bombing of the Capitol per the news reports in the movie.

If it's true, I feel it's enough. No need for a trial.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Agreed, who knows if Senator Finch was keeping records of her conversations with Lex, as many politicians tend to do. She knew Lex was up to something she disapproved of, at the very least wanted to control herself, so she probably started recording every single meeting she had with him. I get it, maybe a quick shot of Senator Finch turning off a tape recorder gives us all we would need, but just because we don't see the smoking gun in the film doesn't mean there wasn't one. I'm sure if this movie was "The Trial of Lex Luthor", we'd have seen more concrete evidence that ties it all together.

Except what does lex ever say to her which incriminates him in anything? Your rationale requires us to assume she was not only recording him, but that she recorded a damning conversation which happens off screen which is never alluded to in the film?

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Does anyone have those pictures? I dunno. Was it ever followed up in the movie to justify him being in prison? No. I highly doubt any legal action was pursued against lex on behalf of Martha since it would open Lex up to telling the world Clark Kent is superman which puts Martha in farther danger against future villains.

The kryptonite, again nothing was presented in the film in regards to the kryptonite smuggling that puts him in prison. There is no reason to believe he wasn't successful in smuggling it without a trace. Not that it matters since he doesn't even have possession of the kryptonite to prove he smuggled anything.

I'm sure it's easy to prove Lex provided that dude with his wheelchair but you'd have to prove Lex equipped it with the bomb. And seeing as the man had already a run in with the law due to his manifested outrage against superman, it would be hard to "prove" the bombing wasn't just a result of that mans outrage against superman, but the inexplicable will of Lex Luthor.

Again, the fact that explaining Lex's arrest requires so much speculation and assumption on behalf of the audience shows the failings of the script.

It was clearly stated that Lex was arrested for his connection with the bombing of the US Capitol. THE BOMBING OF THE US CAPITOL. That's one of the most serious offenses anyone can make, even over creating Doomsday. How do you think he would be detained if he was arrested for BLOWING UP THE US CAPITOL?

 

[writer0327]

Does anyone have those pictures? I dunno. Was it ever followed up in the movie to justify him being in prison? No. I highly doubt any legal action was pursued against lex on behalf of Martha since it would open Lex up to telling the world Clark Kent is superman which puts Martha in farther danger against future villains.

The kryptonite, again nothing was presented in the film in regards to the kryptonite smuggling that puts him in prison. There is no reason to believe he wasn't successful in smuggling it without a trace. Not that it matters since he doesn't even have possession of the kryptonite to prove he smuggled anything.

I'm sure it's easy to prove Lex provided that dude with his wheelchair but you'd have to prove Lex equipped it with the bomb. And seeing as the man had already a run in with the law due to his manifested outrage against superman, it would be hard to "prove" the bombing wasn't just a result of that mans outrage against superman, but the inexplicable will of Lex Luthor.

Again, the fact that explaining Lex's arrest requires so much speculation and assumption on behalf of the audience shows the failings of the script.

Didn't Bruce have the evidence that he was smuggling the kryptonite? The name of the ship it was on, etc. Isn't that how he knew it would be on that truck at that specific time. And who knows what else Lex left lying around on his computers. Lex left clues, man.

With all of that said, yes, the script was shaky, but not the main problem with the film.

 

[Rapunzel]

Re, Lex: the Patriot Act gives a lot of leeway to arresting people suspected of terrorism. My guess is if there was any thought Lex bombed the US capitol, they'd have his butt locked up right quick. Homeland security doesn't mess around.

And Lois told Lex she had proof of the Africa stuff. The bullet led her evidence that he had people involved in that incident; that's how I understood it.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I don't remember it personally (I was still processing the final fight), but Unbreakable Lex says:

If it's true, I feel it's enough. No need for a trial.

I don't remember that happening either. That's not to say it isn't there, but it's certainly something the film failed to highlight. That said, it's still weak as it requires us to believe Lex can hack into Kryptonian technology and genetically bio-engineer an alien halfbreed monster as the final play in his mastermind plot to pit Superman against Batman...but, he accidentally left the LexCorp logo on the bomb he used to blow up a government building? No, the public profile the wheelchair dude garnered in the media is what made him the perfect patsy for Lex to utilize. He's too smart to let the bomb be traced back to him.

 

[Poni_Boy]

"Didn't didn't didn't" there are four different theories on this page of why Alex was arrested from four different people who saw the movie. So obviously it was a storytelling failure for not enunciating that. It's an important part of the story. Is he in jail or prison? What prison shaves your head? Only ones I know of are capital punishment ones waiting to execute prisoners. It was an afterthought that "looked cool"