BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

[RadioSha]

Best part of the movie

 

[Donner]

It doesn't matter who the man in red is. All the audience needs to know is that it's a good guy who knows Bruce and is from the future. And he's a metahuman who warns Bruce about Superman and tells him to find the other metahumans, thus fueling Bruce's motivation to take down Superman and justifying his ultimate search for more powered people.

That's all they need to know. When they see the rest of the films in the series, the picture will become more clear. And that's fine. You are allowed to build stories/plot lines over multiple films when telling stories like this.

-R

To you and other hardcore fans, maybe. But to the general audience, it sounds like it didn't make sense and the ending didn't explain it. Plus, we knew that was a figure from the future how?

All it looked like was a figure in a dream surrounded by lightning that no one knew and was talking about Lois being the key and that Bruce was right. So. Yeah. What?

 

[Cats]

So the Knightmare,

Does Superman turn evil due to hypnosis by Darkseid when Darkseid invades?

JL Part 1 will be 2:30 of an evil Superman?

When do we get to see good Superman?

JL pt 1 will have to address the assembling of the JL, my guess is Superman won't even appear till towards the end, and he will be the Superman we know.

 

[MrsKent26]

That Martha scene was one of the best parts.

Some comments I've heard make me think people don't understand it though.

 

[The Guard]

What message? That Bruce is right about Superman being evil (which arguably helps motivate him to fight Superman) but ends up being his bff by the end of the movie?

Well, in part, but more that it eventually causes him to seek out the other heroes.

It's not pointless in the least.

 

[The Guard]

That Martha scene was one of the best parts.

Some comments I've heard make me think people don't understand it though.

People don't seem to understand half this movie. I despair the species, because it isn't that complicated.

 

[Robin91939]

To you and other hardcore fans, maybe. But to the general audience, it sounds like it didn't make sense and the ending didn't explain it. Plus, we knew that was a figure from the future how?

All it looked like was a figure in a dream surrounded by lightning that no one knew and was talking about Lois being the key and that Bruce was right. So. Yeah. What?

"BRUCE! LISTEN TO ME NOW! It's Lois. It's Lois Lane. She's the key. Am I too soon? Ahh. I'm too soon. You were right about him. You've always been right about him. Fear him. FIND US, BRUCE. YOU HAVE TO FIND US!"


I think it's pretty apparent he is speaking as a man who is from the future.

Again, this isn't making a jump or filling in something that isn't there. This is right there.

-R

 

[Donner]

People don't seem to understand half this movie. I despair the species, because it isn't that complicated.

Oh please. Dramatic much? A lot of people didn't get the movie and you despair for humankind because of it?


Might want to get off that pedestal for a minute. Clear your head. Gain some perspective.

 

[KBX]

Bruce had no problem killing in BvS, which I don't really have a problem with, but he viewed Superman as a super powered criminal that needed to be taken down. Even more so than a typical thug, when you got the chance to, you take them out first ask questions later. Which he did throughout the movie with the thugs. His hatred for Superman was building up as the movie went on. Batman a fighter he knows he cant hesitant to get the job done. But he did once he heard the name Martha. His mother name is Martha. So if Clark's Mom name was actually Jessica, does Batman drive a spear through his heart? I would think so.

 

[Cats]

I hope we don't get mind-controlled, evil superman.

Please, just give us dignified and warm leader superman.

We already have a dignified, warm leader Superman. Maybe there aren't enough scenes for people to get that, but while I'm not a Supes fan, I've found myself very sympathetic towards him.

 

[Robin91939]

Oh plead. Dramatic much? A lot of people didn't get the movie and you despair for humankind because of it?


Might want to get off that pedestal for a minute. Clear your head. Gain some perspective.

He's being tongue-in-cheek.

But there is a very real issue with a lot of people leveling criticism at the movie for things that aren't the movie's problems.

A lot of the so-called logical mistakes are really just things that some viewers missed that were right there in the film. I'm not talking subtextual symbolism. I'm talking about things that were explicitly stated in the dialogue or shown right on the screen.

Again, there are critiques to be made about this film. It isn't perfect. But a lot of the problems people are bringing up could easily have been understood if people just paid attention to the film.

-R

 

[Donner]

"BRUCE! LISTEN TO ME NOW! It's Lois. It's Lois Lane. She's the key. Am I too soon? Ahh. I'm too soon. You were right about him. You've always been right about him. Fear him. FIND US, BRUCE. YOU HAVE TO FIND US!"


I think it's pretty apparent he is speaking as a man who is from the future.

Again, this isn't making a jump or filling in something that isn't there. This is right there.

-R

It doesn't make sense. Find us has no meaning if you didn't know who the figure was in the scene.

That wasn't the best way to portray a prophetic dream if no one got it. I couldn't even make out half the crap the Flash saying.

 

[MrsKent26]

We already have a dignified, warm leader Superman. Maybe there aren't enough scenes for people to get that, but while I'm not a Supes fan, I've found myself very sympathetic towards him.

I was sympathetic to him as well. He takes a lot of punishment in the movie. But he really needed more dialogue and chances to interact with the public.

 

[Cats]

So if Clark's Mom name was actually Jessica, does Batman drive a spear through his heart? I would think so.

I don't think so. He probably expected Superman's last words to be like "You'll regret this you bastard!" Or something he hears a lot from criminals. But Superman's final words were in plea to save another life. If that isn't the mark of a hero, I don't know what is. Martha was only half the reason Batman stopped what he was doing. The other half being Superman proved himself to be a person, with a family, and a true hero at his core.

 

[Donner]

He's being tongue-in-cheek.

But there is a very real issue with a lot of people leveling criticism at the movie for things that aren't the movie's problems.

A lot of the so-called logical mistakes are really just things that some viewers missed that were right there in the film. I'm not talking subtextual symbolism. I'm talking about things that were explicitly stated in the dialogue or shown right on the screen.

Again, there are critiques to be made about this film. It isn't perfect. But a lot of the problems people are bringing up could easily have been understood if people just paid attention to the film.

-R

I think you're seeing this through the eyes of a well versed fan and not an average movie goer. What you perceive as people not paying attention could really be people just not understanding because it's not portayed well enough.

I do the same thing with Marvel movies. If I have to explain too much, the movie didn't do a good enough job.

 

[Robin91939]

It doesn't make sense. Find us has no meaning if you didn't know who the figure was in the scene.

That wasn't the best way to portray a prophetic dream if no one got it. I couldn't even make out half the crap the Flash saying.

He is clearly a metahuman.

He is clearly from the future.

It doesn't matter WHICH metahuman he is. All that matters is that he IS a metahuman who tells Bruce to find "us." Meaning "find the other metahumans."

Which is what Bruce vows to do at the end of the film.

-R

 

[Cats]

I was sympathetic to him as well. He takes a lot of punishment in the movie. But he really needed more dialogue and chances to interact with the public.

Like Ive said in other posts, I wish it was "Batman v Superman" and "Dawn of Justice" as two movies instead of one. Would be perfect if several scenes were just a tad longer.

 

[Legendver2]

So the Knightmare,

Does Superman turn evil due to hypnosis by Darkseid when Darkseid invades?

JL Part 1 will be 2:30 of an evil Superman?

When do we get to see good Superman?

Ummm did we watch the same movie? How about when he sacrificed himself to kill Doomsday?

 

[Robin91939]

I think you're seeing this through the eyes of a well versed fan and not an average movie goer. What you perceive as people not paying attention could really be people just not understanding because it's not portayed well enough.

I do the same thing with Marvel movies. If I have to explain too much, the movie didn't do a good enough job.

My girlfriend is anything but a comic fan. And didn't love Man Of Steel and only gave this film like a 6-7/10, because it's not her thing. And she didn't know what was going on in the Knightmare sequence. But when Bruce woke up -- she realized it was either a premonition or a likely/possible future.

And she didn't know who the Flash was -- but she understood it in the way I just laid out. The man in red clearly has some special abilities. He clearly is speaking as someone from the future. And he clearly tells Bruce to "find us" as in the other metahumans.

It's a lot like Wolverine telling a Young Professor X to find "Scott, Jean, Storm ..." It's a person from the future, saying giving someone from the past instructions.

And by the end of the film, Bruce says he is going to make it happen.

-R

 

[Donner]

He is clearly a metahuman.

He is clearly from the future.

It doesn't matter WHICH metahuman he is. All that matters is that he IS a metahuman who tells Bruce to find "us." Meaning "find the other metahumans."

Which is what Bruce vows to do at the end of the film.

-R

But that's not the only part. Lois is the key and you were right. That's confusing enough and again, it was hard to figure out that the guy was from the future. I had to Google it.

It was not the best prophetic dream sequence. And it came right after that weird dream about the soldiers and demon things.

 

[FLashforward]

I don't think so. He probably expected Superman's last words to be like "You'll regret this you bastard!" Or something he hears a lot from criminals. But Superman's final words were in plea to save another life. If that isn't the mark of a hero, I don't know what is. Martha was only half the reason Batman stopped what he was doing. The other half being Superman proved himself to be a person, with a family, and a true hero at his core.

This^^^

 

[The Guard]

They mean "fun Superman".

 

[KBX]

I don't think so. He probably expected Superman's last words to be like "You'll regret this you bastard!" Or something he hears a lot from criminals. But Superman's final words were in plea to save another life. If that isn't the mark of a hero, I don't know what is. Martha was only half the reason Batman stopped what he was doing. The other half being Superman proved himself to be a person, with a family, and a true hero at his core.

If this version of Batman was a detective or wasn't a killer I would agree - but he isn't. Batman knows how to win a fight. Supermans last words was to save Martha. So what I have seen so far in this movie, Bruce would have driven that spear in Clarks heart, and went to save Martha himself.

"You have to save Martha"
"Ok Yeah buddy, Buh-Bye"

 

[The Guard]

But that's not the only part. Lois is the key and you were right. That's confusing enough and again, it was hard to figure out that the guy was from the future. I had to Google it.

It was not the best prophetic dream sequence.

They obviously want some of this to be a mystery.

Why is this such an issue?

 

[Legendver2]

I was sympathetic to him as well. He takes a lot of punishment in the movie. But he really needed more dialogue and chances to interact with the public.

I think He'll get that in JL. From my standpoint, if what Terrio is saying is true in that this is the second in a trilogy that ends with JL1, then it really feels like Superman's trilogy, even though the title doesn't say as much. In MoS, he was making his debut, which causes the divide in opinion in BvS. He spends much of the movie finding his place in the world now that his existence is known, but at the same time uses his power to do good to the best he can. By the end of the film, after his actions fighting Doomsday, and his self sacrifice, it seems humanity have unanimously accepted him as their savior, but it was too late. He's already dead.

I am sure now his return in JL is going to be the triumphant Superman moment that alot of fans and naysayers wanted. It's a shame that it took 3 movies to get there.