Kinda messed up that he views wrestling Undertaker at Mania as a consolation prize, but I see where he's coming from. He wants that headlining main-event spot he's busted his butt all year to get.
He will very likely steal the show unless another match steps up to the plate.
Punk probably feels the same way some of us do. The match has been built up to be second rate. A "B" match behind Rock vs Cena and Triple H vs Lesnar. And I don't just mean by placement on the card but as far as importance. Not nearly as much time or effort was put into making Taker vs Punk feel like a big deal.
I agree with you though since nobody else on the roster has Punks combo of working ability in the ring AND character. He might be able to carry Taker to match of the night overall.
Originally Posted by Slushy
If HBK came back to work with to Rock and Brock then jobbed to Punk, I'd be happy as a clam.
Him and Austin calling it quits never sat right with me as it didn't help the business.
Like others have said Austin didn't really have much of a choice at the time. His neck was bad...hell a lot of stuff was bad. It was almost like Edge's situation but at least Austin had that last chance to put The Rock over. Edge didn't know for sure that it would be it for him until AFTER he beat Del Rio at Mania. If Austin could have had his way I doubt that Wm19 would have been the end for him.
With Shawn he did more to give back to the company and put over younger talent than ANYONE during his second run. He lost to a guy who didn't need it but he'd done so much to put other talents over that it didn't matter. What he did for guys like Jericho near the end lets me know why Jericho feels the need to give back the way he is now. Shawn was the one guy to really legitamize his world title run with that amazing ladder match
While Triple H was trying to protect his image it was Shawn who did the one job for Legacy when they faced DX.
Originally Posted by Slushy
Metallo, its a true story. She's a difficult person to work with. That's why she wasn't brought back for the Pirates sequels.
Maybe so. I'm just tired of seeing her in so many things when there are other black actresses out there. Hollywood has this habit of focusing on making someone the "it" thing even before they become a big hollywood draw. She's not the main hook in the sucessful films she's in.
Originally Posted by The Sage
That's exactly it. Shawn felt it was time, and didn't want to end up like a lot of wrestlers who stay beyond their time. His family came first over his career, and wanted spend more time with them. Even better is that Shawn went out as a very capable performer. His ability hadn't waned at all.
Austin's health is the reason for his retiring as you said. Had the piledriver accident from '97 not occurred, he would've wrestled a few more years, and would've been capable of returning for the occasional match.
Agreed. I think Shawn accomplished everything he wanted to. There are a couple of guys I wanted to see him face but not badly enough to see him just hanging around when he didn't want to. I think he still loves the business in a certain way but he's put more than enough time in as a performer and I can't blame him for wanting to finally spend time with his family. For years he spent more time on our tvs than he probably did with them. At this stage in Shawn Michaels life they deserve the bulk of his time far more than we do.
Originally Posted by E-Man
Plus some of the matches I'm just dying to see him in can't happen like another match with Bret and Eddie Guerrero.
Michaels vs Guerrero was the biggest missed opportunity for me. It could have been a classic. Did Bret ever wrestle Eddie in WCW? Another missed chance if not. That story writes itself.
Originally Posted by Dr. Evil
The Honky Tonk Man, who held the Intercontinental Championship for a record 454 days, is back with WWE.
The 60-year-old announced Thursday that he has come to terms on a multi-year contract with the sports-entertainment organization.
"I am honored to be back with the WWE and am very excited to be teaming up with WWE again for some more Shake, Rattle and Roll," said The Honky Tonk Man in a message released via his representative on Facebook.
Its a Legends deal but I'd love it if they bring HTM in as a commentator or a manager. The guy knows how to talk.
Originally Posted by Lobo
Agreed on Ziggler, and the rest. I really dug HR's idea for a heel Ryback with Jim Mitchell as his manager. Now, I probably hate Ryback less than most in this thread. I believe the ideal spot for him would be in a tag team with someone like Zack Ryder. Ryder could handle the mic to help the feuds as well as do the most of the ring work and have Ryback come in and do all his big power moves to finish the matches.
I like him. Liked him as Skip Sheffield. I just hate the Ryback character. I think a heel run with Jim Mitchell would be great. Ryback has the right look to be a great monster.
Originally Posted by AntMan
Mick Foley is one of the promo guys EVER and he's given us memorable moments in the ring as well. WWE were fools to exclude him in the first place.
My problem was, physically, he's given WWE more than ANYONE. Nobody else intentionally took the kind of risks he did. He KNEW when his big matches were over he was going to be f***ed up. It wasn't a risk or a chance it was a guarentee. And he did a LOT to either get guys like Rock, HHH, HBK, Edge, Orton, and Taker over or take their careers to the next level. Foley earned the best from WWE. We will NEVER see anyone top the OMG moments this guy gave us. Anyone else would be too afraid of f***in DYING on air. Micks got huge balls and loves this business. He was a big part of WWE fighting back to the top during the Monday Night Wars. He's earned his rightful place and the chance for people to see him take it on tv for those contributions alone.
Originally Posted by bullets
Ryback really is a Goldberg clone whether they want to admit or not. Unfortunately he doesn't have that type of presence. It's kind of a let down. I can't see him ever replacing Cena and if he does it will backfire.
People would probably cheer a heel Cena going against Ryback. So I think we're screwed either way.
Agreed. He doesn't even have Cenas depth of character and I just don't see his character as the type that can go out there and promote the company and be its face the way Hogan, Hart, Austin, and Cena were. The gimmick is just not as accesible as a "person."
Originally Posted by Slushy
Back in TNA, Foley said his Last Man Standing match against Flair would be his last match. Its nice to see he kept his word after defeating The Nature Boy. WOO!
I don't think that he has much of a choice because of what his doctors have told him.
Originally Posted by The Batman
If Punk is the new Austin/Savage and if Cena is the new Hogan, I think Bryan could be a Bret Hart type. He has gotten over despite WWE's crappy booking and he is obviously the best technical wrestler in the company.
I agree. I thinkk he could fill that Hart/Angle/Benoit spot better than anyone and all those guys were able to be put into the main event. Its a role they need to fill and Bryan is the best option
Originally Posted by Van Petrol
I know it's been done countless times before, but who do you guys think the future face of the company will be when Cena is finally replaced?
I agree with what E-Man said. Looking around the main roster now I'm not sure I even see anyone who is clearly going to be that top babyface once Cenas gone. A lot of the potential guys now aren't much younger than Cena. Barring injury Cena's still got a few years left in him at the top. I could see him going for maaaaybe another three to five years as a full time guy if he doesn't get hurt or worn out.
I think whoever takes his place is either in developmental now or not even in the company yet. Now...WWE may push certain people to take that spot but it doesn't mean it'll work out and they'll stick. See: Lex Luger.
Originally Posted by Slushy
Man, I haven't been NOT excited for a Wrestlemania like this since 27.
The success of Wrestlemania IMO goes by how strong a match is built up, if the match delivers, and if the right guy wins.
That's what separates classics like Austin Vs. Hart, Hogan Vs. Maivia and Angle Vs. Michaels from failures like Goldberg Vs. Lesnar, Helmsley Vs. Orton, and Cena Vs. Miz.
Agreed. I think you've nailed the reason why this PPV isn't really getting me excited. I think you picked the perfect examples to show how to build up a match and how not to.
Wrestlemania is like the Star Trek movies. Most of the odd numbered ones are either not that good (9, 13, 15) or just flat out sucked (11, 25, 27). Mostly due to bad booking. And no, one match doesn't save a show.
One match can come close though. But if the whole show is sh** except for one match it still makes it hard to get through all the sh**. WM 25 is an example of that. I think you've got a point though. WM25 still isn't a good PPV to me.
Star Trek III is a greatly underrated movie. I find it to be very good. Better than a one of the even numbered ones. Even TMP has its plusses even though it made the mistake of being cerebral (which is great) without injecting enough fun and passion (which is bad). Its more like "2001" pretending to be Star Trek. I LOOOOVE 2001...but it works better when its doing its thing than someone else doing a weak copy.
Originally Posted by SpideyVille
I normally prefer instrumental versions too, but this is one where I really liked with the lyrics. It really seemed to fit who Triple H was and who he was becoming plus it seemed to transition well from the DX theme.
Agreed. "My Time" really fit where he was in his career at that point and what he was trying to do.
Originally Posted by Hunter Rider
I love Trish but I call ******** on her "picking" Steph to induct her into the HOF.
I don't mind her choosing who she wants but Lita was by far the best choice. I know why she picked Stephanie McMahon but I've got to wonder why she decided not to choose Lita? That would have made her induction even better.
I wonder if Rock can walk straight after Cena stuck his head so far up his ass in that latest circle jerk interview with the two.
I was wondering the opposite when Rock put over the match with Cena as the biggest of his career. C'mon Rock...REALLY? I know they have to sell the WM29 match but how many people are going to believe that sh**. I like Cena but I can think of a few matches that were far far FAR bigger.
On the whole HBK and Austin returning to the ring talk, IMO both should stay retired, both guys went out at Mania against classic rivals. Enough looking backwards, lets get the next batch of stars out in front.
Ditto. I wouldn't complain if Shawn and Austin DID come out of retirement for one last match each if they were in good shape and able to perform at high levels but at the same time I'm glad they are sticking to their guns so far. Like you said they know they achieved just about everything they could, don't want to tarnish that, and are humble enough to move aside for the next generation. I respect that. Its better to go out on a high note than to hang around too long. It take a lot of class. I think they know they may not have gotten their shots as quickly if other people hadn't left WWE when they did. Sometimes you have to embrace new things and fresh ideas to grow.
Don't get my wrong I'd kill to see them have certain matches but at the same time I'm content with their careers as is if they stay away from the ring.
It would be huge for them all and put a fresh heel front and center for Smackdown, but sadly it seems the focus is on the ludicrous idea that Del Rio can be a tenth of the star Eddie was.
Yeah Eddie had heart. More than Del Rio is showing so far. And he owned that ring in a way Del Rio never has in WWE. But the key is having so much passion that its infectious. Eddie was a joy to watch perform. He drew me in the very first time ever saw him wrestle. He just had such an energy. Thats not something one can book or program into the audience.
Originally Posted by Hunter Rider
This is pretty much where Triple H being oldschool and being about business falls apart, he is EXACTLY like Hogan in that he equates what is best for business with what is best for his own worked legacy. At least in Hogan's case he did have years of being the legitimate biggest draw in wrestling and he is the biggest star in the history of the industry.
As an oldschool fan and a businessman Triple H surely realizes that the whole aura and persona of Lesnar crosses over into the real world, a rarity as you say, and the essence of that is he doesn't lose fights unless there are exceptional circumstances. Triple H beating Brock is like Kyle Reese killing The Terminator in the club at the start of the movie or Apollo Creed beating Ivan Drago, it makes no sense..
I agree. Or Shawn Connery's Ramirez beating the Kurgan. Triple H is the old guard and second tier...not
"the one." The big match should be Brock putting over someone like CM Punk...a man who is talented and the true underdog hero. Triple H is neither a true underdog nor a hero.
Cena, as that kind of hero, beating Brock made far more sense and even then he only won by a fluke and by the skin of his teeth. Like you said Triple H doesn't have the excuse of being some huge draw like Hogan. If Hogan was in his prime THATS who you throw against Brock to draw HUUUGE money. I could at least understand Brock jobbing to Hogan in his prime. It'd be a massive money match and would be THE main even of Wrestlemania. Triple H vs Brock isn't that level of match and not that kind of draw.
Smart booking would have Brock slamming Triple H THROUGH the f***n ring in his buildup to true super destroyer status. He should only lose when its a must and in the biggest match on the card putting over the guy who can be that true hero. Hell maybe even a guy who might be the face of the company one day. Brock, if he stays healthy, has a lot more years in him than HHH. He's in the MIDDLE of his career while Pauly L McMahon is nearing the twilight. He should be a stepping stone for Lesnar not a roadblock.
This is one of those cases of WWE PUSHING Triple H as one of the greats when in reality he's the guy you put with Lesnar in a losing effort to draw money. He's not a hero and certainly not THE hero. He's not one of the true A level greats. He's not even on The Undertakers level. If anyone is the defender of the WWE against Brock its Taker not Pole Nose McMahon
That's the two major failures in the logic of the angle. Austin is a prideful man, no way he makes that deal until he actually loses to The Rock, and from Vince's side Austin has to become the type of champion he wants representing the WWF, thus the deal makes sense for Vince as finally he's won, he's bought Austin's soul and made him do things his way.
Neither of these things happened.
Agreed. The kind of doubt Austin had also crept in mighty fast. Its not like he was on a downward slide or stuck in neutral for six months before he turned and joined up with Vince either.
Originally Posted by AntMan
Triple H is capable of doing truly great things for the business, but his ego gets in the way. He's kinda like Verne Gagne in the sense that Verne seemed to do things to stroke his own ego rather than help his own company quite a few times.
Yeah thats my big fear of Triple H being in charge. If Verne had wised up and put the strap on Hogan who knows what would have happened. They might not be around now but they would have done better business than they did do once he left for WWF. I respect the hell out of Nick Bockwinkle but he had peaked and and was past his prime. He wasn't the kind of mega draw that the AWA needed at the time. By the early to mid 80's he could have been top heel against the face of the company but thats it. He should have been a foe to Hogan instead of always outsmarting him. He was too old to be the AWA's Flair and even he wasn't as good as Flair. And at least Flair did drop the belt to bigger names than at the right time back then.
Verne refused to make Hogan his star and I fear HHH doing the same if a star with big potential doesn't fit his ideals. We've seen it with Punk so far. I pray that when he finally does take the reigns for good that he doesn't do it Vince's way or Verne's way. McMahon's gotten as bad as Gagne with trendy patch job solutions instead of understanding what the real problems and real solutions for the company are.
Originally Posted by Hunter Rider
Austin would have lost to Lesnar had it been booked properly, they wanted him to job to him in a KOTR qualifier on Raw with zero promotion. Austin was wrong to no show but he was right that it was dumb business, Austin vs Lesnar was a money match for PPV, not a throw away Raw match.
HBK lost to plenty of people before retiring, it's not about who you lose your last match too because beating a guy who is retiring anyway doesn't mean as much as beating them while they are still active.
Yeah that was the real problem. It was a throw away match on tv. We've only seen the problem get worse with WWE and TNA doing that a lot now. WCW did it too and we saw how they ended up. Austin handled the whole thing wrong but time has proven his reasons for refusing to job to be even MORE right.
As for HBK when someone has spent YEARS putting over other talent a job to a lower card guy on the way out isn't as needed. Thats why Flair didn't need to go out that way either. They'd already made big investments in the business to make sure its future was more secure.
Flair made a 25 year investment in Sting thats STILL paying off and paying off years after a guy like Batista retired. And at its peak that investment paid out a LOT more than the one in Batista ever did.
Shawn did the same thing with Cena and Angle and Jericho and Edge...and below them Rhodes and Orton and so many others.
Thats the difference between the careers (and their endings) of Flair and Michaels and someone like Triple H. When he goes he SHOULD put over a lower card guy to make up for all the time he's hogged at the top without giving pack. He's never passed along those favors guys like Foley did for him as much as he should have. Shawn and Ric did and then some.
Originally Posted by Kaleb
I've no interest in seeing HHH go all "Conan" or "Game of Thrones" or whatever the hell it was before.
Lol...that description is pretty funny considering his nickname.
it would keep Sandow's star rising, and have an opportunity to bring those two titles back to a level where they were 15 years ago, being a stepping stone for major players to become main eventers.
