The Wrestling Thread has some Veteran Advice... - - Part 204

[Bat Brain]

I'm wondering if she will be able to shut anyone up when she gets back in the ring, or if her training clips are just highlights of the few moves/spots she can convincingly do.

Having Brian Kendrick as a base probably helps too. Still though, I hope she surprises us.

 

[Donnie Darko]

Having Brian Kendrick as a base probably helps too. Still though, I hope she surprises us.

True.

I just wonder IF she has made great improvements and can go in the ring, will people admit it and accept her or keep booing her.

 

[Uptown Finest]

Yeah I was coming here to posy about that.

[YT]0axgLVlhEA8[/YT]

I got Owens dropping the title in 1-2 months to Samoa Joe.

 

[TX85]

They are building up Joe vs Owens so hard just to have Owens drop the title in a few weeks to Balor and go to the main roster full time. Joe is definitely taking the title,their first NXT match or not but I'm guessing it'll be at the next take over show

 

[Wheels]

True.

I just wonder IF she has made great improvements and can go in the ring, will people admit it and accept her or keep booing her.

I certainly would have no issues changing my stance on her. I mean Ryback doesn't bother me anymore.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Watching ROH and Kushida comes out. Just watched him on New Japan a few days ago. I like him.

 

[Bat Brain]

Heck of a Gore.

 

[zeroapoc]

True.

I just wonder IF she has made great improvements and can go in the ring, will people admit it and accept her or keep booing her.

Hey, if she really has improved and they still act that way then screw it. Just heel it up and troll them.

Still have to have a wait and see attitude at this point though.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Finished The Death of WCW. What's another good wrestling book?

 

[Dr. Evil]

I wonder what role if any the UFC's new drug testing policy will affect the WWE

 

[sweetre15]

Ok so I watched ROH on Destination America

Kushida vs Ferrara - Nice opener with a shocking finish. Kushida is a hella crisp worker

The Addiction is still a great heel tag team...ReDragon vs The Addiction/Bad Influence next week. Should be great

Silas Young vs Watanabe...A pretty hard hitting match and an entertaining one to boot. I want to see more from these two

Whitmer trolled the **** out of Corino's son and got him squashed by Moose lmao...decent Squash match that was quite hilarious to me

Jay Lethal and Truth Martini segment..short but effective

Quality Tag Team main event between Briscoes and H.O.T

Overall a solid episode for ROH TV and I look forward to seeing more

 

[NDX]

What the **** is Mark Brisco on?

Heck of a Gore.

Man, I wish I could watch NXT tonight. Gotta wait until tomorrow.

 

[NDX]

Man, I glad I caught the opening to Impact before heading to bed. EC3 is the best this in the company.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I thought that opening was lame as hell. Jaw dropping lame.

 

[PyroChamber]

Hey, if she really has improved and they still act that way then screw it. Just heel it up and troll them.

Isn't that what she was doing before?

 

[JabarR]

I thought that opening was lame as hell. Jaw dropping lame.

Amen! It seems Jem and the Holograms (Taryn Terrell and the Dollhouse) want to take over the Knockouts division and what Angelina did to Velvet came back to bite her on the ass as well!

 

[Slushy]

I like Eva Marie, but its hilarious she's a bigger heel than The Bella Twins, lol.

Finished The Death of WCW. What's another good wrestling book?

Mick Foley
Have A Nice Day
Foley Is Good
The Hardcore Diaries
Countdown To Lockdown

Chris Jericho
A Lion's Tale
Undisputed
The Best In The World

Bobby Heenan
Wrestling's Bad Boy Tells All
Chair Shots and Other Obstacles

Dutch Mantel
The World According To Dutch
Tales From A Dirt Road

Vince Russo
Welcome To Bizarroland
Rope Opera: How WCW Killed Vince Russo

Bret Hart: Hitman

Billy Graham: Tangled Ropes

Jesse Ventura: I Ain't Got Time To Bleed

Ric Flair: To Be The Man

Dusty Rhodes: Reflections of an American Dream

DDP: Positively Page

Eddie Guerrero: Cheating Life, Stealing Death

Bill Goldberg: I'm Next

The Road Warriors: Danger, Death and the Rush of Wrestling

Adam Copeland On Edge

Harley Race: King of the Ring

James J. Dillon: Wrestlers are Like Seagulls

Kurt Angle: It's True, It's True

Roddy Piper - In the Pit

Terry Funk: More Than Just Hardcore

Sting: Moment Of Truth

John Layfield: Have More Money Now

Brock Lesnar: Deathclutch

Dave Batista: Unleashed

Rey Mysterio: Behind The Mask

William Regal: Walking A Golden Mile

Booker T: My Rise To Wrestling Royalty

 

[nite-owl]

 

[Keyser Soze]

WWE's brutal travel and taping schedule is much harder on guys than their elaborate spots.

Look at guys like CM Punk and Bryan Danielson. WWE milked every single bit of vitality those guys had. They were both in ROH longer than WWE and they've been hurt in WWE far more often.

And for the record, toned down violence is not the only thing I was referring to when talking about WWE being watered down. They allow very little freedom on the mic, they condense movesets (not just the dangerous ones, either; grapplers and cruiserweights are few and far between), they skew the product towards a younger demographic, they emphasize celebrities and gimmicks (remember when the freaking Muppets were on RAW? and Cody Rhodes might be wrestling Amell as the Arrow? that's worse than Karl Malone and Rodman in WCW) rather than the in ring product. They don't even want their product referred to as "wrestling"; their PR department sends out nasty emails to news outlets that call their product anything but "sports entertainment".

It's the biggest stage in the world for wrestling, and they're ashamed to be a wrestling company.

I grew up with WWF, ECW, and WCW. Even though I really hate the modern product, sometimes I still catch myself watching it and hoping it will improve. And sometimes they do still get it right, and when they do it's awesome. But more often than not it's just a sad reminder of what wrestling used to be, like when TNA was trotting the barely mobile Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, or five years too late Raven out there.

And I'm just worried that these great indie/international stars are going to end up like Cena, Orton, Batista, etc: a set list of about six moves, absolutely no personality, etc. What they did to Danielson was bad enough; he had to adopt a clown persona just to get into the event scene, despite being possibly the most talented technical wrestler in the world today.

You talk a lot about these wrestlers lose, in that they no longer get to go out and wrestle for 50 minutes of constant high spots and dropping each other on their heads. That's exciting for a viewer, absolutely, I love those matches. And they can no longer go out and drop F-bombs in their promos, which might take the edge off them. But I actually look at what they've gained, as well. When it comes to in-ring, I think there's been a change of culture in the WWE system to what it was 10 or even 5 years ago. It seems like they no longer want everyone working the same "WWE style," but rather work has been done to bring more of a wrestler's character out through their ring work. Like, Kevin Steen/Owens. I've watched indie matches where he's flipping off the top rope and doing crazy agile moves and it's a spectacle to behold, and on the surface it may seem less exciting that now his moveset is dominated with ground-and-pound and momentum-killing headlocks and strikes. But he's selling his character, and actually playing the heel beyond just when he's holding the mic. And on the rare occasions where he does break out a moonsault it's a big deal. That's the kinda thing he was already working into his game late in his ROH run, but he's refined it in WWE.

And in terms of character, you talk about scripted promos, and yes, WWE has a problem with this. But again, a Kevin Owens can go out and tear the house down with a killer promo on WWE TV. And then there are guys like Seth Rollins, who was never a great promo, who can now go out and carry a 10-15 minute talking segment and get across his character effectively as a solid talker. Scripted promos haven't undermined him, quite the opposite, they've helped him immensely. You might think it undermines Rollins' credibility that he can trade verbal barbs with Jon Stewart on live TV because celebrities cheapen the wrestling, but for many viewers, including Rollins himself I'm sure, this is a boom for him as a character. Or look at Sami Zayn. The El Generico character was always going to have a ceiling. But unmasked, Sami has developed into a strong promo, and has built himself up as the ultimate clean-cut babyface character. The NXT environment can help a lot of guys, including great workers, in helping them develop character through promos, which is just as important. And yes, I think scripted promos are the equivalent of training wheels, and letting them cut loose and be themselves on the mic is the equivalent of finally riding the bike, but before the WWE environment a lot of these guys couldn't get on the bike at all in this regard.

You call Daniel Bryan in WWE a clown. I disagree. He had his time doing comedy, but that's not what pushed him to the main event. And as much as I agree he's probably the best wrestler in the world today, that wasn't what got him to WrestleMania. It was the character he developed in WWE. I think Bryan is a personality is actually long underrated, and he did fine mic work in the indies. But he was at his most successful in ROH as a cocky heel. What took him to the next level in WWE was his portrayal as the ultimate underdog, always being short-changed, dismissed and cheated. It was a story that all fans, regardless of how many indies they'd watched, could relate to. And everything from his mic work to his ring work has been adapted to enhance this aspect of his character. And though there were booking stumbles along the way, at the big moments, John Cena and Triple H respectively had GREAT MATCHES with Bryan, and in WWE style too. Bryan showed you can adapt, and change, and still be true to what made you popular in the first place.

You have a point about the gruelling schedule of wrestling for WWE, and more still needs to be done to protect workers' health. But I wouldn't say it's as simple as wrestlers not getting injured on the indies. A lot of the time, workers in the indies are working hurt because they can't get medical insurance for surgery, and can't afford to take the time off they'd need to recover. WWE has its issues with sometimes bringing talent back too soon, but if you get injured in WWE - or, in Sami's case, a nagging injury you've had from the indies becomes too much to bear - then the costs of surgery are covered by WWE, and you're on the payroll through your downtime.

There have been false flags and disappointments before, but I do think there's a sense of genuine change in the air with WWE now. While Vince has always had definitive final say, more and more it feels like there's a creative tug of war going on between HHH and Vince, with HHH pushing for more indie guys prominently features, bringing in more international stars, strengthening the women's division, strengthening the tag division. Crucially, it seems like the generation of OVW products as the headliners - Cena, Orton, Batista - is coming to an end, and giving way to the generation of NXT products as the headliners - Ambrose, Rollins, Reigns, with Owens, Balor, Zayn, Samoa Joe and more incoming - and NXT seems to operate on a very different ethos to what OVW back in the day did.

 

[Bat Brain]

While the actual injury has yet to be confirmed or announced, a source reportedly told The Wrestling Observer that the injury suffered by Tyson Kidd during his dark match against Samoa Joe might have been a spinal injury.

As noted, the ref put up the “X” signal during the bout, and Kidd did have to receive medical attention following the match.

It has been mentioned recently that there appears to be a new unwritten policy in WWE in which talents keep injuries somewhat of a secret, if they can, the injury to Kidd is something that no one is supposed to be talking about.

As of this writing, Kidd is hoping to make a full recovery from the injury and avoid surgery. There are no official details on Kidd’s injury at this time.

Damn, two pieces of bad news: Kidd is injured and Joe injured someone in his first WWE match.

 

[The Apocalypse]

Finished The Death of WCW. What's another good wrestling book?

Just did too the other day. One of the best reads ever. The epilogue at the end about TNA was some of the funniest stuff I ever read.

 

[chamber-music]

Damn that crowd was hard on Eva Marie. At least let her prove herself in the ring now she has had proper training.

Eva Marie probably wishes she was back on the main roster getting Rob Conway Pops

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

The epilogue at the end about TNA was some of the funniest stuff I ever read.

Yeah, I uttered "Jesus Christ" to myself going down that list. I'm kind of hoping TNA dies soon so that they can get to work on that book.

 

[zeroapoc]

Tyson Kidd is out for months.

 

[zeroapoc]

Damn that crowd was hard on Eva Marie. At least let her prove herself in the ring now she has had proper training.

Hardcore crowds can be both the best and the worst.